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DPChallenge Forums >> Administrator Announcements >> Let's Talk About Textures
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08/11/2008 08:16:41 PM · #51
Originally posted by cpanaioti:

Originally posted by yanko:

Originally posted by cpanaioti:

Originally posted by yanko:

Originally posted by cpanaioti:

Originally posted by RKT:

Why not? It just once a month.


Every free study? Maybe if we have a choice of free studies. Kind of like the exclusive open challenges.


But you would have a choice (i.e. use textures or don't).


Then what's the point?


Not sure I follow. Aren't you trying to make a point about lack of choice if textures are allowed in the monthly free studies? I just said, that you would have the choice to either use it or not. I don't think anybody is mandating the use of textures.


Well, that's not really the point. It's like changing all challenges to expert editing and saying well you don't have to use expert editing.

It's about accepting the fact that not everyone on the site agrees with the allowance of textures as with expert editing so to keep the site open to ALL users of the site there needs to be a choice of challenges.


Fair enough. Although I think if textures were allowed it would just run it's course like tonemapping did. In other words, we'd get a lot of them at first (i.e. the good, the bad and the ugly) but then it'll taper off and only the very good ones will be able to continue to compete with all the other techniques out there.
08/11/2008 08:29:50 PM · #52
I am definitely in favor of including "some" challenges with editing parameters that allow for texture overlays. It is becoming more and more frequently used in "fine art" digital photography (not that it wasn't used before, it was just done in the dark room). We need to have an outlet that provides an opportunity to express our creativity along these lines. As several people have stated, DPC has a texture library... What the **** is it's purpose, if not for use in at least SOME challenges? The effects and techniques have obviously been recognized as important to the DPC community, so why not embrace that aspect of the community's talents as well - by providing a competitive outlet in which to display our creations?

I think that occasionally offering challenges with an augmented version of the old "Expert Editing" (call it whatever you'd like) is appropriate. Maybe once a month - nothing too frequent, but not too sparse either?

Thanks for considering this option and I know it will make a number of members (including myself) happier for it. :-) And don't get me wrong, I enjoy the bare bones, purist approach on occasion too - it's just that without the variation (i.e., growing with the changing technologies, skill sets, and available tools), things become stagnant.
08/11/2008 08:31:49 PM · #53
Originally posted by SJCarter:

I am definitely in favor of including "some" challenges with editing parameters that allow for texture overlays. It is becoming more and more frequently used in "fine art" digital photography (not that it wasn't used before, it was just done in the dark room). We need to have an outlet that provides an opportunity to express our creativity along these lines. As several people have stated, DPC has a texture library... What the **** is it's purpose, if not for use in at least SOME challenges? The effects and techniques have obviously been recognized as important to the DPC community, so why not embrace that aspect of the community's talents as well - by providing a competitive outlet in which to display our creations?

I think that occasionally offering challenges with an augmented version of the old "Expert Editing" (call it whatever you'd like) is appropriate. Maybe once a month - nothing too frequent, but not too sparse either?

Thanks for considering this option and I know it will make a number of members (including myself) happier for it. :-) And don't get me wrong, I enjoy the bare bones, purist approach on occasion too - it's just that without the variation (i.e., growing with the changing technologies, skill sets, and available tools), things become stagnant.


Well said. Variety is the spice of life....or in the case....of DPC! You want to grow....then accept some change....but realise you can keep it within the basis of the site.
08/11/2008 08:50:54 PM · #54
Originally posted by muckpond:

We have several options here:

1. Ban textures and overlays. An objective solution that steers away from "digital art" (any added texture is arguably an illegal new feature anyway) ...

2. Allow all textures and overlays. ... may cause problems if someone adds a texture to a selection so it appears to be part of the as-shot scene or uses an overlay file that we would normally consider a multiple exposure.

3. Allow limited textures and overlays. ... but ban overlays ... limit any added photos to certain predefined types, and/or require that they be applied globally. The problem here is ensuring that people understand the limits.

Option 1 looks like the best solution IMO.

Going with option 2 or 3 opens a huge can of worms and has too much subjectivity involved in determining legality. Emphasis in quote added by me.
08/11/2008 09:15:33 PM · #55
I like #1 the most, anything veering towards graphic arts takes away from photography, which is what this site is about.

If many people want b or c, then a seperate category can be created
08/11/2008 09:16:09 PM · #56
Originally posted by glad2badad:

Going with option 2 or 3 opens a huge can of worms and has too much subjectivity involved in determining legality. Emphasis in quote added by me.


Damn... I like worms. :~p
08/11/2008 09:19:46 PM · #57
Stop being bullied by people who are intimidated by possibility. Bring back expert editing. What's the harm in a well-defined once-in-a-while?
08/11/2008 09:22:34 PM · #58
Originally posted by skewsme:

Stop being bullied by people who are intimidated by possibility. Bring back expert editing. What's the harm in a well-defined once-in-a-while?


Bring back expert editing with a condition that you only enter if you are using processing steps outside of Advanced or Basic and only entrants can vote. That way you won't get the 'anti-expert editing' voters hitting the obviously edited images hard. If they like Expert Editing, they will enter it to start with.

To appease the DPC audience...run a bonus challenge that has 3 choices, basic, Advanced and Expert Editing...but you can only enter one and you can only vote on the one you entered!

That will sort the worms out.
08/11/2008 10:05:28 PM · #59
Originally posted by kolasi:

I like #1 the most, anything veering towards graphic arts takes away from photography, which is what this site is about.

If many people want b or c, then a seperate category can be created


I think I'm about here also... We have basic editing, and advanced editing. If there is sufficient desire for full blown digital graphics, then perhaps there could be Digital Graphics Challenge, or Graphic Arts Challenge.

It would appear that www.dgchallenge.com is available, as is www.gachallenge.com.

edited to remove faux links from the above potential web site names...

Message edited by author 2008-08-11 22:06:59.
08/11/2008 10:11:00 PM · #60
Allow textures - allow the voters to decide what works and what doesn't. Its the norm in most areas of the photography industry.... I say lets have it! (Mind you, I'm not a fan of overly processed work, but voters (younger generation) seem to love it).

08/11/2008 10:15:11 PM · #61
Originally posted by MAK:

I think a new editing ruleset (expert editing) for Members should be added and keep the rest as they are.

Open challenges - Basic editing
members A - Advanced editing allowing just certain spot editing not overlays multiple exposures etc etc
members B - Extreme/Expert editing where pretty much anything goes

maybe Having the members A&B as a choice option as with the open challenges or even as 2 seperate challenges


I agree with ' . substr('//www.dpchallenge.com/images/user_icon/21.gif', strrpos('//www.dpchallenge.com/images/user_icon/21.gif', '/') + 1) . ' MAK that perhaps the best solution is to start using the Expert Editing ruleset which allows it. I think it would be very enhancing for the site to have a challenge each week for those that want to take their artistic side further than is currently allowed. I love the way I am currently challenged to see what I can do within an established ruleset, but it would also be nice once in a while to spread my wings and let the creative juices soar.
08/11/2008 10:15:54 PM · #62
I still see this site as a photography site, but it is nice to see and learn new techniques.

1 Basic editing - Love it the way it is. Allowing us to remove sensor dust was a great addition.

2 Advanced editing - I liked it better when we couldn't add or remove major elements, and couldn't do HDR. The new rule with typical viewers description is just too vague. When it comes to editing, I think less is more here.

3 Creative editing - Perfect for multiple exposures, textures, overlays, HDR, and whatever else comes down the road.
08/11/2008 10:17:07 PM · #63
Originally posted by ambaker:

Originally posted by kolasi:

I like #1 the most, anything veering towards graphic arts takes away from photography, which is what this site is about.

If many people want b or c, then a seperate category can be created


I think I'm about here also... We have basic editing, and advanced editing. If there is sufficient desire for full blown digital graphics, then perhaps there could be Digital Graphics Challenge, or Graphic Arts Challenge.

It would appear that //www.dgchallenge.com is available, as is //www.gachallenge.com.

edited to remove faux links from the above potential web site names...


Why kick us off the site....Digital Photography is Photography as a general. What happened in the Dark Room also happens in the processing of Digital Images. We use some processing skills for Basic and Advanced so why not keep us all on the same site but in separate categories like we already have. Expert Editing is using nothing new then what we have already used for a very long time in Photography.

It's like having equestrian events that only include Cross Country and Show Jumping but trying to kick out Dressage to a separate part of the sport.....not good enough to belong...but strong enough to not go unnoticed.
08/11/2008 10:29:49 PM · #64
I'd like to see regular Open Editing (my preferred name for it) Challenges, whilst keeping the other levels more purely photographic.
08/11/2008 10:33:02 PM · #65
What about "creative editing?" That's what it is. I know people hate definitions, but look at how Wikipedia defines digital photography:

Digital photography is a form of photography that utilizes digital technology to make digital images of subjects. Until the advent of digital technology, photography used photographic film to create images which could be made visible by photographic processing. Digital images can be displayed, printed, stored, manipulated, transmitted, and archived using digital and computer techniques, without chemical processing.
08/11/2008 10:50:43 PM · #66
Originally posted by cloudsme:

Creative editing - Perfect for multiple exposures, textures, overlays, HDR, and whatever else comes down the road.


I like this description. It covers creative techniques, but still keeps it on the photography side of the fence.
08/11/2008 10:55:31 PM · #67
What does "purely photographic" mean? A lot these techniques that everybody is arguing for and against in this thread have been done with film in darkrooms long before photo shop existed...and far better than what most people are doing in photo shop. Almost all photo shop processes are based on darkroom technique, the only difference is that photo shop is a whole lot less stinky.

Originally posted by Beetle:

I'd like to see regular Open Editing (my preferred name for it) Challenges, whilst keeping the other levels more purely photographic.
08/11/2008 10:57:08 PM · #68
My vote is for option 2. Those who consider it digital art should contribute the way that is most comfortable for them, and let those who are able to use textures to great effect do so in the context of challenges.
08/11/2008 11:02:30 PM · #69
for further reference, the overlays thread from last February, which convinced Landon to give us that textures image section and a textures library...

My vote is to let us texture/overlay heathens come out to play once and a while, control it how you like.
08/11/2008 11:11:15 PM · #70
I wouldn't mind at all an occassional creative editing challenge to incorporate textures and other overlay type possibilities, but I would vote for option one for advanced editing - no textures. However, I honestly don't enter many challenges anymore anyway.
08/11/2008 11:18:13 PM · #71
Originally posted by pekesty:

What does "purely photographic" mean? A lot these techniques that everybody is arguing for and against in this thread have been done with film in darkrooms long before photo shop existed...and far better than what most people are doing in photo shop. Almost all photo shop processes are based on darkroom technique, the only difference is that photo shop is a whole lot less stinky.

Originally posted by Beetle:

I'd like to see regular Open Editing (my preferred name for it) Challenges, whilst keeping the other levels more purely photographic.


...mmmmmmmmmm...stop bath...fixer.

...and lets not forget about the occasional pain....ever get stop bath in a fresh paper cut?...good times, good times.
08/11/2008 11:19:37 PM · #72
I'm seeing alot of post's about things that were done in a darkroom, before digital. A good photoshop user can take an image of a white wall and make it into a masterpeice.. i don't know if you can do that in a darkroom..but it's not photography either way. You don't need a camera to do this.. the camera just makes it easier. Let's stick to creating images with our camera's and adjust whatever details need adjusting.

Message edited by author 2008-08-11 23:20:31.
08/11/2008 11:21:37 PM · #73
Let's stick to having 3 types of challenges....only able to enter and vote on the category you choose for that week.

Everybodys happy!
08/11/2008 11:29:20 PM · #74
Originally posted by Intelli:

I'm seeing alot of post's about things that were done in a darkroom, before digital. A good photoshop user can take an image of a white wall and make it into a masterpeice.. i don't know if you can do that in a darkroom..but it's not photography either way. You don't need a camera to do this.. the camera just makes it easier. Let's stick to creating images with our camera's and adjust whatever details need adjusting.


Why do you (and some others) feel the need to pigeonhole what photography is and exclude the rest?

Why not just stick to images straight from the camera, no adjustments...period?



08/11/2008 11:30:45 PM · #75
I think if they were to add use of textures to an existing ruleset, or have frequent texture challenges or whatever, to maintain the 'spirit' of our challenges, the texture one uses should be from their own shot, taken during that week. That would still make it a challenge! I mean, why should a person be able to go find someone elses work, and use it to improve their own image?
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