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DPChallenge Forums >> Administrator Announcements >> Let's Talk About Textures
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Showing posts 76 - 100 of 303, (reverse)
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08/11/2008 11:32:16 PM · #76
Originally posted by Spazmo99:

Why not just stick to images straight from the camera, no adjustments...period?


Because those mostly suck. Photographers since the beginning of time have used processing to get the wow images. That's why we call them images rather than "pictures". :)
08/11/2008 11:33:53 PM · #77
If you're going to make totally off the wall statements like this why even bother taking part in the conversation!?! Where did anybody, anywhere in this thread ever once talk about creating something from nothing? The conversation never once strayed in the direction of digital painting! The conversation is about whether or not to allow overlaying two, maybe more digital photographs(not blank files). Nothing was ever said about creating a photograph from a blank film negative or an all white digital file! Let's stick with the topic...last I checked it's not about painting with paints or pixels!

Originally posted by Intelli:

I'm seeing alot of post's about things that were done in a darkroom, before digital. A good photoshop user can take an image of a white wall and make it into a masterpeice.. i don't know if you can do that in a darkroom..but it's not photography either way. You don't need a camera to do this.. the camera just makes it easier. Let's stick to creating images with our camera's and adjust whatever details need adjusting.


Message edited by author 2008-08-11 23:49:48.
08/11/2008 11:36:11 PM · #78
Defintely second option- textures are too sweet to pass up.
08/11/2008 11:36:46 PM · #79
Originally posted by taterbug:

... I mean, why should a person be able to go find someone elses work, and use it to improve their own image?


Why do you assume people are using overlays to improve their images? People use Photoshop or whatever million filters or what have you out there to enhance their visions...shall we start disallowing them too? It's a creative process...plain and simple. Some of us really enjoy experimenting and finding new ways to see things.
08/11/2008 11:41:19 PM · #80
Even Ansel Adams combined multiple images to create quite a few of his masterpieces - "in the dark room". Why not allow us to do the same "digitally"? Just because it takes creative insight and is difficult to achieve (in the dark room or in PS) doesn't mean that it isn't photography... We all start with the same basic equipment, skills, and talents. It's what you create out of your abilities that should be important IMHO. Again, that's what some of the "past" GREATS in photographic history have been recognized for... "the ability to reach beyond the current standards."

I don't think that every challenge should allow editing of this nature. BUT, I think that an occasional challenge would be a breath of fresh air - just like I think that an occasional "minimal editing" challenge is a breath of fresh air.

We have to face the facts that the technology is out there - and it's not going to slow down just because a group of photographers have decided that it's "beneath" them to accept any change to the status quo. We wouldn't have arrived in the digital age without acceding to some of those advancements (which we now treat as standards). This is a fluid field of study, and we have to allow for exploration on all fronts - whether or not they eventually find their place in the photographic halls of fame.
08/11/2008 11:42:45 PM · #81
The year is 2008. That's all.
08/11/2008 11:43:31 PM · #82
Originally posted by idnic:

The year is 2008. That's all.


Hear Hear...
08/11/2008 11:47:24 PM · #83
I can't understand the argument here. We aren't asking for it to be applied to all challenges across the board. Just the separate challenge to accomodate for this type of photography. Why are the diehards trying to block it in every direction. Haven't you heard of give and take?

Sheez....you have your pie...let us have ours. All the editing we are talking about still comes under the heading of photography....so what is the problem?
08/11/2008 11:53:14 PM · #84
Originally posted by Judi:

I can't understand the argument here. We aren't asking for it to be applied to all challenges across the board. Just the separate challenge to accomodate for this type of photography. Why are the diehards trying to block it in every direction. Haven't you heard of give and take?

Sheez....you have your pie...let us have ours. All the editing we are talking about still comes under the heading of photography....so what is the problem?


Totally agree. We can have both.

However, some proposing the use of textures ARE seeing it replace the existing challenges.
08/11/2008 11:56:35 PM · #85
Originally posted by cpanaioti:



However, some proposing the use of textures ARE seeing it replace the existing challenges.


I didn't get that from reading the thread.
08/11/2008 11:57:27 PM · #86
PIE!!!! I like pie and cake and chocolate and icecream...even better when they all "overlay" each other.

LIVE IN THE NOW!!!!!
08/11/2008 11:58:41 PM · #87
Originally posted by Spazmo99:

Originally posted by cpanaioti:



However, some proposing the use of textures ARE seeing it replace the existing challenges.


I didn't get that from reading the thread.


Not from the whole thread. jeez.

Some who posted are proposing that.
08/12/2008 12:00:16 AM · #88
ok..it was an off the wall statement. But to me adding overlays.. you might as well be taking a pencil and scratching some lines in. Where is the limit.. before we know it.. we will have altered the captured image so much it is unrecognizable and therefore we might as well just draw or paint the damn thing. My post was part of the conversation, but I guess I'm the only person who knew what I was talking about. =) I still may be the only one who knows what I'm talking about after this post..but at least I know what I'm talking about.

Originally posted by pekesty:

If you're going to make totally off the wall statements like this why even bother taking part in the conversation!?! Nobody ever once talked about creating something from nothing. Where did anybody, anywhere in this thread ever once talk about creating something from nothing? The conversation never once strayed in the direction of digital painting! The conversation is about whether or not to allow overlaying two, maybe more digital photographs(not blank files). Nothing was ever said about creating a photograph from a blank film negative or an all white digital file! Let's stick with the topic...last I checked it's not about painting with paints or pixels!
08/12/2008 12:44:51 AM · #89
Originally posted by muckpond:



Filters and effects are legal in Advanced editing, including grain, brushstrokes, and Texturizer, but your entry must originate from a single photo (or several shots of the same scene). This is an inherent conflict because the legal Texturizer filter uses a separate reference photo to map the effect, yet we haven't allowed people people to combine their own photos with a grunge or texture overlay. We have several options here:

1. Ban textures and overlays. An objective solution that steers away from "digital art" (any added texture is arguably an illegal new feature anyway), however it could put a damper on creativity and would likely mean banning brushstroke filters, too.

2. Allow all textures and overlays. This would put the decision in the hands of the voters and add more editing freedom in Advanced, but may cause problems if someone adds a texture to a selection so it appears to be part of the as-shot scene or uses an overlay file that we would normally consider a multiple exposure.

3. Allow limited textures and overlays. Maybe allow "real" textures (3D surface effects) but ban overlays (other images on transparent layers), limit any added photos to certain predefined types (such as "unrecognizable" B&W photos), and/or require that they be applied globally. The problem here is ensuring that people understand the limits.

We're really stumped with how to approach this issue and want to ensure that our DQs and validations are as consistent as possible. Plus it's your site, so we want it to meet your needs.

Let's hear your thoughts and suggestions!


I think from the OP that the options given would affect all challenges that use the Advanced Rule set. From reading through this thread, it seems that those in favour of textures and overlays would like to see them included in a separate expanded (Creative, Open, whatever...) rule set that could be used for a separate monthly challenge for members so as not to disrupt the current challenge formats. This seems like a reasonable idea to me, even if intitially done on a trial basis to allow administration to determine particpation rates and get feedback.


08/12/2008 01:07:33 AM · #90
Originally posted by posthumous:

Bring back "Expert Editing" or call it "Extreme Editing" or whatever you want, which will allow multiple exposures, as long as they are all taken in the challenge timeframe. So, if you want a texture layer you have to take the shot yourself that week. (This ruleset is due back anyway. When you got rid of it, you said you'd be replacing it with something.)

In "Advanced Editing" ban all textures and overlays.

The middleground stuff is horsehockey.


What he said!
08/12/2008 01:10:11 AM · #91
#2 works for me

And.. I agree .. bring back Expert Editing too!
08/12/2008 01:10:18 AM · #92
Originally posted by posthumous:

Bring back "Expert Editing" or call it "Extreme Editing" or whatever you want, which will allow multiple exposures, as long as they are all taken in the challenge timeframe. So, if you want a texture layer you have to take the shot yourself that week. (This ruleset is due back anyway. When you got rid of it, you said you'd be replacing it with something.)

In "Advanced Editing" ban all textures and overlays.



Are you referring to in camera or out of camera textures and overlays?
08/12/2008 01:29:38 AM · #93
I love grunge textures and I would love to see them legal in some challenges. I'd be fine with having them legal in advanced editing, or I also like the idea of having some sort of a creative editing or graphic art ruleset. I like the idea of a little more freedom to be creative. We have some amazingly creative people around here. I would love to see what we could come up with if we had a little more flexibility in Photoshop.
08/12/2008 01:32:03 AM · #94
2. Allow all textures and overlays. This would put the decision in the hands of the voters and add more editing freedom in Advanced.

Message edited by author 2008-08-12 02:25:06.
08/12/2008 02:24:58 AM · #95
Originally posted by posthumous:

Bring back "Expert Editing" or call it "Extreme Editing" or whatever you want, which will allow multiple exposures, as long as they are all taken in the challenge timeframe. So, if you want a texture layer you have to take the shot yourself that week. (This ruleset is due back anyway. When you got rid of it, you said you'd be replacing it with something.)

In "Advanced Editing" ban all textures and overlays.

The middleground stuff is horsehockey.


I agree here for the most part, but take it one step further, I would say create four rule sets

1. Basic - leave as is
2. Advanced - leave as is
3. Expert - allow textures as long as all exposures are taken within the specified timeframe
4. Extreme - allow all textures to be added to current exposure as long as subject is taken within specified timeframe

I would also like to see an occaisional open challenge as advanced, give novices like me the chance to explore and experiment, still too intimidated to enter a freestudy to take advantage of that opportunity, yes i know i am a member and can enter the member challenge as well, but still a bit intimidated there too, lol, working on it though

Just my $.02 if anyone was curious :)
08/12/2008 02:34:56 AM · #96
Anything done to an image after capture is editing. isn't it? even cropping. i don't see where you can draw a line. If film shooters in the darkroom could do any of the editing digital shooters can do, i think they would. again i don't see a logical place to draw the line. i see only two categories here, "no editing at all" or "anything goes".
But these extremes could possibly defined as a "real" and "unreal" type of separation. or call it "photojournalism" and "creative art". In a way it's similar to what we have now but more logically defined.

The photojournalistic approach would be to represent the subject as realistically as possible as to document (can be good for sports shots, portraits, events). This would limit the editing by allowing only that which wouldn't alter the subject as it actually exists. This would be somewhat similar to the basic editing we have now.

The creative art could include all kinds of editing allowing pretty much everything. I don't see why we would have to segregate types of creative editing. The problem here is that once you start allowing overlays and brush strokes you have to accept the possibility that the final image may not even resemble a photograph at all.

08/12/2008 02:47:58 AM · #97
Originally posted by outafocus:

I would also like to see an occaisional open challenge as advanced, give novices like me the chance to explore and experiment ...

This does actually happen, I estimate two-to-three times a year. I think there was a set of Open challenges which ran under Advanced maybe a couple of months ago ...?
08/12/2008 03:02:39 AM · #98
Originally posted by briantammy:

i see only two categories here, "no editing at all" or "anything goes".


I agree, you either allow it or you dont, however if those were the only two choices I had, I would probably go somewhere else. Im here cause I enjoy photography and Im continuously learning and hopefully improving as I go. My ability to do that would be seriously impaired if the only editing category was everything allowed. Dont get me wrong, I would be extremely impressed and try to learn how people manage to capture and edit thier photos, there is a truly amazing amount of talent throughout this site, but I would end up going somewhere else to maintain a certain level of fun and enjoyment in my own abilities.

By all means have the extremes, no editing to anything goes, but keep some middle ground so novices like me can continue to learn, improve and step up our skills at different paces.
08/12/2008 03:06:50 AM · #99
Originally posted by GeneralE:

Originally posted by outafocus:

I would also like to see an occaisional open challenge as advanced, give novices like me the chance to explore and experiment ...

This does actually happen, I estimate two-to-three times a year. I think there was a set of Open challenges which ran under Advanced maybe a couple of months ago ...?


You are right, and I think thats great, I just didnt choose my words quite right. "Maybe slightly more often" should of been added to that statement :)
08/12/2008 03:58:53 AM · #100
I vote for "Allow all textures and overlays", it is currently possible to make a complete mockery of photography via simple saturation boosting. Voters have shown there is an acceptable range to this effect, same as for noise and other filters.

I believe the voters will also define their own rules and people will naturally fall into those rules in hopes of ribboning. Even in the most extreme cases of texturing the majority of information in the image is still the photograph taken.

That is how it should be and I believe it will remain that way with no limits placed on textures and overlays.
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