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09/03/2004 06:38:09 PM · #176 |
A while back, I was feeling like there should be
challenges based on the equipment, specifically
the MP capability of the camera: a 3 MP, a 4MP, a 5MP
challenge, etc..
For the most part, those with the finances that allow
spending thousands and thousands of dollars on equipment
have a much better chance of capturing a stunning shot,
BUT,
it really comes down to the eye behind the viewfinder.
I have taken that as a personal challenge in a way.
If I can compete decently with a camera that does not have
an interchangable lens, noise above ISO80, and the imaging
technology that is over 4 years old, well then I think I am doing OK.
It would be like taking an old race car and go up against
those with big buck sponsors, and win once in a while.
This I could not have done, nor conceived myself doing
just a few short months ago. Makes it even more rewarding...
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09/03/2004 06:39:25 PM · #177 |
Originally posted by BradP:
Illegitimi Non Carborundum |
...hehehehe... the irony of this phrase is lost somewhere in the midst of all this mayem, methinks! ;o) |
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09/03/2004 06:39:51 PM · #178 |
Originally posted by Imagineer:
Give someone a reward, they want extra reward |
Give someone a free study challenge, they want one every month :P
People 'with rewards' weren't the ones who suggested this in the first place. None of the SC, or even drew I dont think(?), knew about this challenge until it was posted, just like everyone else!
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09/03/2004 06:40:35 PM · #179 |
Originally posted by Konador:
can you write a list of reaons there should be a free study every month, |
The most important reason for a free study every month imho is:
That every participating photographer can enter a subject at which he/she is best instead of being dependant on a given subject.
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09/03/2004 06:42:31 PM · #180 |
Originally posted by Konador:
I post here as a member, not as a person of authority. I'm only in 'SC Mode' when talking about DQs or discussing things privately in the SC forums. If you don't like what I'm saying, then don't like me. Don't take it out on the SC as a whole.
With a change as big as a free study every month, the pro's and cons have to be talked about in detail, to make sure it doesn't negatively effect the site. Other than 'The members want it', can you write a list of reaons there should be a free study every month, for reference in the discussions? I'll be more than happy to bring the SC thread on the issue back to discussion, but I don't think the reasons for and against will have changed very much, if at all.
For smaller suggestions (like being able to mark comments helpful from the number of comments list on your profile :)!) we don't need to discuss them, because they are obviously good for the site. |
I'm all for reasoned arguments for and against something. I don't call comments such as 'Why don't tax payers get everything they ask for? :)' and 'Give someone an inch, and they want a mile... or however the saying goes' logical reasons, and in fact they are just annoying. Because council members have 'posher' icons than everyone else here, this does give you all an authority and responsibility in the forums whether you like it or not, and you are giving DPC a very bad image here. |
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09/03/2004 06:42:59 PM · #181 |
Originally posted by Azrifel:
That every participating photographer can enter a subject at which he/she is best instead of being dependant on a given subject. |
In that case surely voting is arbitrary, since how can you compare a portrait to a landscape, for instance?
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09/03/2004 06:43:07 PM · #182 |
Originally posted by Azrifel:
Originally posted by Konador:
can you write a list of reaons there should be a free study every month, |
The most important reason for a free study every month imho is:
That every participating photographer can enter a subject at which he/she is best instead of being dependant on a given subject. |
True, but there are millions of websites for that. DPChallenge is different in that you have to be flexible and make yourself take a good photo no matter what the given subject is.
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09/03/2004 06:43:35 PM · #183 |
Originally posted by laurielblack:
Originally posted by BradP:
Illegitimi Non Carborundum |
...hehehehe... the irony of this phrase is lost somewhere in the midst of all this mayem, methinks! ;o) |
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09/03/2004 06:44:26 PM · #184 |
Perhaps we could rename those with 2 or more Masters' Ribbon wins 'Senators' and the one with the most wins 'President'? What do you think?
Anyway, carry on discussing the smug winners' challenge! ; ) |
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09/03/2004 06:45:16 PM · #185 |
| I would prefer "Queen of all she surveys" over "Senator." ;o) |
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09/03/2004 06:46:13 PM · #186 |
Originally posted by BobsterLobster:
Originally posted by Konador:
I post here as a member, not as a person of authority. I'm only in 'SC Mode' when talking about DQs or discussing things privately in the SC forums. If you don't like what I'm saying, then don't like me. Don't take it out on the SC as a whole.
With a change as big as a free study every month, the pro's and cons have to be talked about in detail, to make sure it doesn't negatively effect the site. Other than 'The members want it', can you write a list of reaons there should be a free study every month, for reference in the discussions? I'll be more than happy to bring the SC thread on the issue back to discussion, but I don't think the reasons for and against will have changed very much, if at all.
For smaller suggestions (like being able to mark comments helpful from the number of comments list on your profile :)!) we don't need to discuss them, because they are obviously good for the site. |
I'm all for reasoned arguments for and against something. I don't call comments such as 'Why don't tax payers get everything they ask for? :)' and 'Give someone an inch, and they want a mile... or however the saying goes' logical reasons, and in fact they are just annoying. Because council members have 'posher' icons than everyone else here, this does give you all an authority and responsibility in the forums whether you like it or not, and you are giving DPC a very bad image here. |
Did I ever say those comments were 'logical reasons' for there not being a speed challenge every month. I'd already written down many logical reasons. I was just trying to emphasize points I'd already made with a friendly comment. Apologies if they didnt come over that way.
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09/03/2004 06:54:32 PM · #187 |
With all this "bickering" a very important point has been lost:
Many members, paying or not, can often feel like "Why should
I compete. I never will stand a chance against members that
are so obviously great at photography".
I almost felt that way once, but it made me dig deeper and
renew my passion to excel in this hobby. I took my lumps
and was resilient. Here is a chance for the "Best of the Best"
to compete against one another. Skill levels leveled out a bit.
A similar challenge should be allowed some time in the future
for those that haven't earned a ribbon yet.
Kind of a varsity vs. varsity, JV vs. JV competition. The Varsity
just had the honors of going first.
Relax all, it's not like cash or prizes are being taken away
from you. There are plenty of sites out there for those rewards.
Message edited by author 2004-09-03 18:55:38.
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09/03/2004 07:07:24 PM · #188 |
Well, okay... let's bring everything down a notch to a friendly list of why there should be monthly free challenges. You had a good set of reasons against, and I'll address those after my list:
We should all be here to learn to be better photographers, and free challenges allow us to put our very best creations online which we can all learn from.
DPC will look much better with photographs of a much higher standard than the usual challenges once a month.
I'm sure most people can relate to the experience of going on holiday or somewhere photogenically amazing only to have a totally non-related challenge. Sometimes you're lucky, sometimes you're not. Argh!
People get to REALLY scrutinise and comment on our photos in areas we really want to improve in. This doesn't happen anywhere near as much when just posting in forums.
People want it! This fact in itself should be held in consideration.
To address your points:
I really don't believe people will stop entering the normal challenges. If this were true, you'd be right to be wary of free challenges. Is there anything to support this happening in the past?
I'm sure people won't mind not putting their shot in the forum if it means people will comment and vote on it in a free study!
I really doubt people will forget to put a picture on DPCPrints which has just finished in a challenge. In fact, the extra publicity of being in a challenge will help sell more prints. This is a bloody good reason for a free challenge I'd have thought.
I don't understand how there will be too many free study winners.
There are already people who have an advantage in present challenges. Anyone can win a free study... I placed pretty well with a photo of a ceiling with a relatively cheap camera.
Anyway, I hope we can have good feelings, as you seem like a nice chap who takes very good photos... just try and treat the members with respect in the forums bearing in mind you wear a crown on your head in here, so represent the council in most other people's eyes all the time.
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09/03/2004 07:23:20 PM · #189 |
Good points :)
I'll comment on a few that I'm a bit warey of, as you've done with mine.
We should all be here to learn to be better photographers, and free challenges allow us to put our very best creations online which we can all learn from.
Very true. You can still do that to a certain extent with your portfolio, and I've added a number of favs from yours, but you're right in that challenge shots get much more exposure.
I'm sure most people can relate to the experience of going on holiday or somewhere photogenically amazing only to have a totally non-related challenge. Sometimes you're lucky, sometimes you're not. Argh!
I can definately relate to that, and I wished there was a July Free Study for my holiday! But where's the challenge in entering any shot that you just happened to take?
People get to REALLY scrutinise and comment on our photos in areas we really want to improve in. This doesn't happen anywhere near as much when just posting in forums.
I'm worried that if there was a free study every month, commenting would either increase on these, and decrease in regular challenges, or commenting would just not happen much on free studies. If there was a free study every month, people may not be as inspired to comment, thinking 'oh i'll just comment in the next challenge'. With sparodic challenges, they don't know when their next chance might come so they are more likely to do it for each one.
I'm sure people won't mind not putting their shot in the forum if it means people will comment and vote on it in a free study!
I meant putting any of their shots in the forums really, in case one of them ends up as a free study entry, cos they can only submit one in the end. Also, people might post to the forums, get raving reviews on their shot, and then decide to enter it in the challenge. We could change the rules to make this illegal however, not just against etiquette.
I really doubt people will forget to put a picture on DPCPrints which has just finished in a challenge.
Again, as with the forum posts, I mean any shots taken in the month, in case they decide to submit that one instead, after recieving positive comments about it. It probably is unlikely people will forget, but I'm stupid enough to have done it before :P
---
No hard feelings, and no disrespect intended. Just a case of misinterpreted light-heartedness, which is totally my fault, and not uncommon in my case :P
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09/03/2004 07:25:26 PM · #190 |
Originally posted by PaulMdx:
Originally posted by Azrifel:
That every participating photographer can enter a subject at which he/she is best instead of being dependant on a given subject. |
In that case surely voting is arbitrary, since how can you compare a portrait to a landscape, for instance? |
How are you going to do that in a "backlit" challenge?
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09/03/2004 07:26:13 PM · #191 |
i can read the rules for the challenge now, but they state you need 3 or more ribbons. i thought that had been changed to 2.
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09/03/2004 07:27:31 PM · #192 |
It has, but it looks like the description hasn't been updated... 1 second...
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09/03/2004 07:28:42 PM · #193 |
... okay I've changed the description to 2 ribbons, but I don't have access to change the 'Extra Rules' bit.
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09/03/2004 07:37:54 PM · #194 |
Buhu! Just got my camera, and I want to compete! (only one blue ribbon so far! Come on!!)
;)
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09/03/2004 07:38:16 PM · #195 |
OOHH,OOOHHHH!!!! I want my turn at stirring up this hornet's nest. :-)
First of all...my qualifications:
--I am not even close to a ribbon winner...YET!
--I own a cheap lousy camera...FOR NOW!
--Not quite a newbie (IMO), but also not a long time veteran.
--I have a cat.
--I have personally seen at least a dozen curling matches.
--I like the color green.
So let me say...I think this is pretty kewl. Should be some awesome photos to view (and maybe learn a little from) when it's over! I can't wait to see 'em! For those of you entering...GO,GO,GO! It's well deserved and best 'o luck to all.
I can't believe the negative stuff about this. It seems like there are just a few people with objections though. C'mon, don't get your panties in a bunch (sorry ladies, just an expression). This is a COMPETITION site after all (dpCHALLENGE). Just about any competitive league or organization or whatever, often has playoffs, championship, superbowl, whatever. Isn't that what the thrill of competing is all about? Whether it is sports (obviously), or forensics, the chess club, debate, spelling bees, races, whatever. As for being a "paying" member, so what? The same applies, for instance, bowling leagues, pool leagues, dart leagues, race entry fees etc. etc. The championship or whatever you want to call it is added incentive, extra drive, bragging rights, reward for excellance, whatever you want to call or consider it.
MASTERS. Big deal, it's a name folks, a title. Call it champion, pro, expert, whatever, it is just a label. I really don't think when they decided to call it masters, that they in any way intended it to be derisive, condenscending, diminutive or offensive at all.
I think this is a great way to recognize those that have excelled. Shame on anyone for slamming or belittling that.
I personally have a real hard time understanding the opinion that you see cropping up in for instance some kids sports, of it is JUST for the fun, there should be no winners, give everyone the same prize , blah, blah. Do we really want a level field of total mediocrity? No point in trying to excel, don't strive to be great, no ambition or drive, no need for putting forth extra effort, it doesn't matter because it won't get you anything that everybody else will get anyway.
So there, that's my 73 cents worth. I step down from my soap box and put down my stirrin' stick.
Oh...one more thing: please always remember and never forget......
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09/03/2004 07:38:25 PM · #196 |
Okay... my responses :-)
I can definately relate to that, and I wished there was a July Free Study for my holiday! But where's the challenge in entering any shot that you just happened to take?
Okay, there's less of a challenge component to the free studies, but that doesn't make them of less value, just different. They still achieve the same goal of improving people's photography. The challenge is still there for people entering the usual challenges. Also, many high scoring shots are down to luck where someone happens to be shooting something that is relevant to the challenge. A free challenge just makes it less frustrating when we aren't so lucky.
I'm worried that if there was a free study every month, commenting would either increase on these, and decrease in regular challenges, or commenting would just not happen much on free studies. If there was a free study every month, people may not be as inspired to comment, thinking 'oh i'll just comment in the next challenge'. With sparodic challenges, they don't know when their next chance might come so they are more likely to do it for each one.
Is there any evidence of this in previous challenges? Did anyone raise this as an issue at the time in a forum thread?
I meant putting any of their shots in the forums really, in case one of them ends up as a free study entry, cos they can only submit one in the end. Also, people might post to the forums, get raving reviews on their shot, and then decide to enter it in the challenge. We could change the rules to make this illegal however, not just against etiquette.
Why don't we ask people if this would be a problem?
Again, as with the forum posts, I mean any shots taken in the month, in case they decide to submit that one instead, after recieving positive comments about it. It probably is unlikely people will forget, but I'm stupid enough to have done it before :P
I think that there will be many extra sales down to the publicity raised by the challenge, which will offset the inconvenience of waiting
to see which photo is posted to DPCPrints. Besides, haven't people posted photos to DPCPrints while they were being voted on in challenges? |
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09/03/2004 07:39:41 PM · #197 |
Well this place seems a bit hostile sometimes.
I have been quite busy since I joined the members section of this site so I haven't entered in many challenges.
I would have to say that the idea of a monthly free study is a bad idea though. There is one simple reason for this, no need to look very deep, and that is that I believe it will have an affect on the number of entries in the actual weekly challenges. Instead of someone going out and trying to get a shot for the weekly challenge they will be going out and trying to get the best free study they can get. Now I know everyone won't do this but there are some that will and it will have an affect on the number of shots in weekly challenges in my opinion. This is just an opinion and not a fact so no reason to argue with it.
I would also like to point out to the people who say a free study isn't a challenge that I believe they are wrong. Everyone knows what kind of shots to expect for a free study and it is a really big challenge to go out there and take something that could be up to par with what is expected.
Or you could just go take a shot of a cute little kid doing something cute and you are pretty much guaranteed a win. :)
Edit: Just wanted to point out that I think the idea of the Master's Free Study is pretty good and I know that it is not taking the place of anything. It just seems to some people that it is taking the place of the free study that usually happens every few months now.
Message edited by author 2004-09-03 19:42:04.
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09/03/2004 07:47:30 PM · #198 |
Originally posted by turdave:
Well this place seems a bit hostile sometimes.
I have been quite busy since I joined the members section of this site so I haven't entered in many challenges.
I would have to say that the idea of a monthly free study is a bad idea though. There is one simple reason for this, no need to look very deep, and that is that I believe it will have an affect on the number of entries in the actual weekly challenges. Instead of someone going out and trying to get a shot for the weekly challenge they will be going out and trying to get the best free study they can get. Now I know everyone won't do this but there are some that will and it will have an affect on the number of shots in weekly challenges in my opinion. This is just an opinion and not a fact so no reason to argue with it.
I would also like to point out to the people who say a free study isn't a challenge that I believe they are wrong. Everyone knows what kind of shots to expect for a free study and it is a really big challenge to go out there and take something that could be up to par with what is expected.
Or you could just go take a shot of a cute little kid doing something cute and you are pretty much guaranteed a win. :)
Edit: Just wanted to point out that I think the idea of the Master's Free Study is pretty good and I know that it is not taking the place of anything. It just seems to some people that it is taking the place of the free study that usually happens every few months now. |
I don't know about you, but I'm completely addicted to photography. I think most people here are. As well as taking photos for the challenges here, I'm also constantly taking other photos for my own use. It would be great to get those into a challenge for people to comment and vote on. It wouldn't cut down on my entering the normal challenges. In fact, I believe that most people on DPC would have a better chance of winning the usual challenge, as the more professional photographers would have a much better chance of winning a free study as they could specialise in their field. I think this is a good thing though, so we can study a 'master' at work doing what they do best. Anyone can still win these though, and I'm sure they would.
I want to reiterate again that I really like the idea of this 'master' challenge, and look forward to taking part. |
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09/03/2004 07:56:18 PM · #199 |
I think the master's challenge is a good idea, and am looking forward to seeing what they produce.
However, I am very disappointed as this seems to be in place of a month long September challenge, as has been the pattern for the last year.
If we get one special challenge every 3 months, and some of them are going to be lost to non mega ribbon winners I would see that as a loss for the majority of members.
I would not be in favour of a free challenge every month, I think the one every 3 months is about right .... but if this replaces it then it is one in 6 months, and that just sucks.
It's a shame, as I really enjoy the month long no topic challenges and had something special planned for the one that looks like it has been replaced by the master's challenge. Might have been an idea to run them in parallel, maybe excluding those eligible for the master's challenge from the main one or something, that way most members would not have lost out.
(Sorry if this got discussed in this thread already, I got lost half way through it)
Message edited by author 2004-09-03 20:00:19.
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09/03/2004 07:56:51 PM · #200 |
edit: I really shouldn't have posted my thought here because it just an extension of my train of thought from the other month long FS thread (the latest one anyway). I think that what is needed is a reasoned response to the suggestion, whatever the decision is on it.
Message edited by author 2004-09-03 20:01:35.
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