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09/04/2004 04:33:03 PM · #1 |
Originally posted by mk:
Nor was anything said about Masters Challenges, nor was there anything said about you being included in absolutely every single thing ever to happen ever again on this site. You did not pay for asbolute rights. You're still getting what you paid for. |
All I am trying to say is that when I sign up, they drew me in with all of the extra things you will be able to do. I just didn't think that something would come up where I was excluded. It just caught me off guard the other day with this challenge was posted. I will quit my crying now because I just don't have the energy to care. Good luck to all who enter the challenge. I hope to see lots of great work in it. |
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09/04/2004 04:26:13 PM · #2 |
| Nor was anything said about Masters Challenges, nor was there anything said about you being included in absolutely every single thing ever to happen ever again on this site. You did not pay for asbolute rights. You're still getting what you paid for. |
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09/04/2004 04:14:59 PM · #3 |
Originally posted by oskar:
Originally posted by G4Ds:
No kidding. I did not think that when I paid to become a member I would still be excluded from challenges just because no one like my images enough for them to ribbon. |
Are you kidding me ? Stop crying, you can take part in 2 challenges every week, this is extra, nothing is beein taken away from. If you don't like this, just ignore it.
I think that this is the best idea I have seen in this site for a long time.
Now the only thing is to collect ribbons :) |
Yea, but there was nothing said about being excluded from challenges when I signed up. |
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09/04/2004 03:23:21 PM · #4 |
Originally posted by oskar:
Are you kidding me ? Stop crying, you can take part in 2 challenges every week, this is extra, nothing is beein taken away from. If you don't like this, just ignore it.
I think that this is the best idea I have seen in this site for a long time.
Now the only thing is to collect ribbons :) |
I can't participate, and I belevie you said it best, it's a nice extra. Good luck to everyone. And the others (like me), just be patient, i'm sure we're going to have a challenge for "no ribbon" members!
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09/04/2004 12:27:03 PM · #5 |
Originally posted by micknewton:
Originally posted by ClubJuggle:
I think an elimination challenge would be a great idea in theory, but the amount of coding necessary to make that happen is huge. |
I don’t think that I would call such an effort huge. I’ve been a software engineer for a long time, and the project I’m currently working on has already been in development for four years. It consists of millions of lines of C++ and Java code, but even that isn’t huge when compared to many others. I’m not a web designer (I write real code :O), but what would it take, manipulating a few HTML or ASP pages? |
That and the database. Compared to the effort to add a Masters' challenge, that's huge. You are a software engineer, taht is your full time job. The project you are working on is being written by a full team of developers. DPC is a labor of love by two guys who do this in their spare time. On that scale, the effort would be huge.
Originally posted by micknewton:
Originally posted by ClubJuggle:
As to thae argument that this is unfair to those who haven't been here long, I don't agree that's the case. You have all month to get those two ribbons... and if you don't have them by then, you'll have more time to get them before the next Masters' challenge (assuming they continue). |
So, we’ll have a whole month to collect two ribbons. While I agree that that is certainly possible, it’s also not very probable. Most of the people that have a bunch of ribbons have spent years and lots of challenges to collect them. |
And if you don't make it in time for this challenge, there's the next one... and the one after that, and the one after that. With any luck, this won't be a one-and-done thing.
Originally posted by micknewton:
I also dislike the idea of calling those that have won a few ribbons “masters” of photography. I’ve seen quite a few ribbon winning photos that I wouldn’t call masterful, while many that I would call masterful get ignored and do poorly. This site has a lot of inexperienced amateurs and young guys, and young guys like photos of pretty young girls, motorcycles flying through the air, etc., etc. In other words, it doesn’t matter how much photographic expertise was used in creating the various entries. If the subject is “cool”, “sick”, or whatever expletive you care to use, then it wins. It’s really more of a popularity contest than a photography contest. And no, I do not have a problem with that. In fact, I really like it because it means that even a non-master like me can win a ribbon… or at least I could if I could ever get a photo of a hot naked chick flying through the air on a dirt bike. |
I'm not saying that they are all masters of photography, nor that those who have not won 2 or 3 ribbons aren't. I am saying that those who have won the requisite number of challenges HAVE mastered what it takes to perform well in this environment. They are masters of DPChallenge, if you will. The criteria may not be perfect, but it is objective, fair, and removes any chance of favoritism.
-Terry
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09/04/2004 12:05:36 PM · #6 |
Originally posted by ClubJuggle:
I think an elimination challenge would be a great idea in theory, but the amount of coding necessary to make that happen is huge. |
I don’t think that I would call such an effort huge. I’ve been a software engineer for a long time, and the project I’m currently working on has already been in development for four years. It consists of millions of lines of C++ and Java code, but even that isn’t huge when compared to many others. I’m not a web designer (I write real code :O), but what would it take, manipulating a few HTML or ASP pages?
Originally posted by ClubJuggle:
As to thae argument that this is unfair to those who haven't been here long, I don't agree that's the case. You have all month to get those two ribbons... and if you don't have them by then, you'll have more time to get them before the next Masters' challenge (assuming they continue). |
So, we’ll have a whole month to collect two ribbons. While I agree that that is certainly possible, it’s also not very probable. Most of the people that have a bunch of ribbons have spent years and lots of challenges to collect them.
I also dislike the idea of calling those that have won a few ribbons “masters” of photography. I’ve seen quite a few ribbon winning photos that I wouldn’t call masterful, while many that I would call masterful get ignored and do poorly. This site has a lot of inexperienced amateurs and young guys, and young guys like photos of pretty young girls, motorcycles flying through the air, etc., etc. In other words, it doesn’t matter how much photographic expertise was used in creating the various entries. If the subject is “cool”, “sick”, or whatever expletive you care to use, then it wins. It’s really more of a popularity contest than a photography contest. And no, I do not have a problem with that. In fact, I really like it because it means that even a non-master like me can win a ribbon… or at least I could if I could ever get a photo of a hot naked chick flying through the air on a dirt bike.
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09/04/2004 10:24:37 AM · #7 |
Originally posted by mavrik:
I am ... not much shocks me anymore, but people threatening to quit over this? To not renew?
*SLAMS DOOR ON THEIR BUTTS*
I can't participate. Oh boofrickinhoo. As mk said, you're getting what you paid for. There's no good reason for this challenge - it's for FUN. Anyone who quits over this - seeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee ya! Bob, wackybill, etc - why are you here? Seriously. WHY are you possibly here?
---If it's to show off your wonderful photos - Individual Photo Forum
---If it's to participate - you're still getting what you paid for. It's not a sarcastic response - it's TRUE.
---If it's to learn - STUDY these masters' photos. What better learning is there? Make a detailed critique of every photo.
---If it's for the comraderie - this thread is so joyous, keep adding whinging to the whining. It helps.
Why are you here? Then reassess the situation. Quitting? Well then hell, where was the Kenyan men's basketball team during the Olympics? THEY DIDNT QUALIFY!! BETTER BOYCOTT THE NEXT GAMES!!!
I don't post a whole lot anymore - DPC tends to repeat itself. But in this case, I felt the need. I haven't been so irritated with some members here in a LONG LONG time.
M |
I think there's a lot of missing the point going on here. Guess what? I CAN take part. I was trying to explain why a lot of people were unhappy about this one. Sorry, but I'm not the type of person who will stay quiet for an easy life. If I think that my voice needs to be heard to make something better, I will be vocal. If you don't like it, you know what you can do. I made peace in this thread a long time ago. There are many people here who whinge about the whingers who are going to keep things going for a LONG time. |
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09/04/2004 10:07:53 AM · #8 |
Originally posted by micknewton:
I think that an elimination challenge would have been a much better idea. Start with an open challenge, and the top 100 (or 50, or 75, whatever) finishers get to continue to the next challenge. The top 10 (or whatever) from that challenge would get to enter the final challenge. We could have a different, and more difficult, subject for each challenge, or keep the same subject throughout the series and allow the photographers to refine their vision and create their ultimate take on the challenge criteria.
With an elimination challenge series everybody would start out even and have an equal chance at being the big winner of the series. In my opinion, this so called ‘masters’ challenge is unfair to those of us that haven’t been here long enough to collect a bunch of ribbons. And, I think that it’s taking dpchallenge in the wrong direction.
I'd still only get a 5.5 or so in the first go round, but at least I'd get to compete. :) |
I think an elimination challenge would be a great idea in theory, but the amount of coding necessary to make that happen is huge.
As to thae argument that this is unfair to those who haven't been here long, I don't agree that's the case. You have all month to get those two ribbons... and if you don't have them by then, you'll have more time to get them before the next Masters' challenge (assuming they continue).
-Terry
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09/04/2004 01:58:44 AM · #9 |
I am ... not much shocks me anymore, but people threatening to quit over this? To not renew?
*SLAMS DOOR ON THEIR BUTTS*
I can't participate. Oh boofrickinhoo. As mk said, you're getting what you paid for. There's no good reason for this challenge - it's for FUN. Anyone who quits over this - seeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee ya! Bob, wackybill, etc - why are you here? Seriously. WHY are you possibly here?
---If it's to show off your wonderful photos - Individual Photo Forum
---If it's to participate - you're still getting what you paid for. It's not a sarcastic response - it's TRUE.
---If it's to learn - STUDY these masters' photos. What better learning is there? Make a detailed critique of every photo.
---If it's for the comraderie - this thread is so joyous, keep adding whinging to the whining. It helps.
Why are you here? Then reassess the situation. Quitting? Well then hell, where was the Kenyan men's basketball team during the Olympics? THEY DIDNT QUALIFY!! BETTER BOYCOTT THE NEXT GAMES!!!
I don't post a whole lot anymore - DPC tends to repeat itself. But in this case, I felt the need. I haven't been so irritated with some members here in a LONG LONG time.
M
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09/04/2004 01:46:53 AM · #10 |
Originally posted by micknewton:
I think that an elimination challenge would have been a much better idea. Start with an open challenge, and the top 100 (or 50, or 75, whatever) finishers get to continue to the next challenge. The top 10 (or whatever) from that challenge would get to enter the final challenge. We could have a different, and more difficult, subject for each challenge, or keep the same subject throughout the series and allow the photographers to refine their vision and create their ultimate take on the challenge criteria.
With an elimination challenge series everybody would start out even and have an equal chance at being the big winner of the series. In my opinion, this so called ‘masters’ challenge is unfair to those of us that haven’t been here long enough to collect a bunch of ribbons. And, I think that it’s taking dpchallenge in the wrong direction.
I'd still only get a 5.5 or so in the first go round, but at least I'd get to compete. :) |
I just want to start by saying that I'm all for the masters challenge.
I want to continue by saying that I *ALSO* think that *THIS* is a brilliant idea! Once a year.. or bi-annually or something.. It'd certainly be exciting :)
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09/04/2004 01:44:07 AM · #11 |
Originally posted by micknewton:
In my opinion, this so called ‘masters’ challenge is unfair to those of us that haven’t been here long enough to collect a bunch of ribbons. And, I think that it’s taking dpchallenge in the wrong direction.
:) |
Well, I suppose if someone has been around less than 2 weeks, then yes they have not had a shot at winning TWO ribbons, but even if they just joined today, they still have about a month (several chances) to win 2 ribbons. And if they miss that...then they will have a bunch more chances to win 2 and be ready if/when there is another masters challenge....
(sorry micknewton, I am not intending to target you personally, just using your quote to make a humble point about all the negative vibes in general)
I mean, c'mon people! I can't see what is wrong with the people that have been around awhile, and have worked at excelling having a chance to be recognized and go at it in a shootout/championship type thing.
Once again I say an emphatic "Great Idea!" Kudos to Clara for bringing it up (and others that have discussed it in older forums) and to Drew/Langdon and the sc for implementing it. I look forward to seeing the results and hope to one day achieve that level and shoot it out with the "Masters". :-)
ps. mean people suk!
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09/04/2004 01:23:16 AM · #12 |
Originally posted by micknewton:
I think that an elimination challenge would have been a much better idea. Start with an open challenge, and the top 100 (or 50, or 75, whatever) finishers get to continue to the next challenge. The top 10 (or whatever) from that challenge would get to enter the final challenge. We could have a different, and more difficult, subject for each challenge, or keep the same subject throughout the series and allow the photographers to refine their vision and create their ultimate take on the challenge criteria.
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cool idea - would make a great "March Madness" special challenge.
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09/04/2004 01:21:30 AM · #13 |
I think that an elimination challenge would have been a much better idea. Start with an open challenge, and the top 100 (or 50, or 75, whatever) finishers get to continue to the next challenge. The top 10 (or whatever) from that challenge would get to enter the final challenge. We could have a different, and more difficult, subject for each challenge, or keep the same subject throughout the series and allow the photographers to refine their vision and create their ultimate take on the challenge criteria.
With an elimination challenge series everybody would start out even and have an equal chance at being the big winner of the series. In my opinion, this so called ‘masters’ challenge is unfair to those of us that haven’t been here long enough to collect a bunch of ribbons. And, I think that it’s taking dpchallenge in the wrong direction.
I'd still only get a 5.5 or so in the first go round, but at least I'd get to compete. :)
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09/04/2004 12:24:49 AM · #14 |
Originally posted by Jacko:
Meanwhile, back at the Ranch, Jacko went out to take some photos while all the whining was going on. Watch out bugs, here I come. |
me too. I'm going out to take some fish photos, so I can be a Master Baiter... :)
Dave
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09/04/2004 12:16:34 AM · #15 |
Originally posted by BobsterLobster:
Well, you can either see it as elitist, or you can see it as an enticement for people at the top to hang around and carry on helping the people at the bottom. I'd be interested to see Setzler's opinion on this, as I'm sure this is something along the lines of what he was after for quite a long time, and as a result of nothing happening I believe we lost some very good photographers. |
I will hold my opinion in reserve. I had nothing to do with the creation of this concept. If anyone wants to discuss it, feel free to PM me. I'm not getting involved in this particular thread and I'm ignoring it after this post. I feel that this particular thread (from what little I have read) is a bit childish in the pissing and moaning.
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09/04/2004 12:14:17 AM · #16 |
I just wanted to add my vote to the people who think blemt had a great idea...I'm glad to see it happening and look forward to the results!
I'm a "paying member" who doesn't have enough ribbons to enter, but it's already been made clear that there's no reason for any of us to whine because we're not getting ripped off. It's just that those who have won a few ribbons are getting an extra little reward.
I think criticism is okay, when presented maturely, but there have been some pretty cutting remarks made on this thread.
I think a lot more grace should be shown to Drew and Langdon, as well as the site council...I hope that you guys/gals take encouragement from those who post with positive comments here. Keep up the great work!
...oh and hate to get all christiany, but Jesus already addressed the "we're getting ripped off" complaints in Matthew 20:1-10. |
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09/03/2004 11:58:40 PM · #17 |
Originally posted by Spazmo99:
Dang! I can't believe all the furor about this.
If you can't say that and believe it, maybe you need a new hobby, something you do like. |
This thread make it's obvious... Some people just like to complain! Give it a rest already!!! |
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09/03/2004 11:55:39 PM · #18 |
Guess we know now what we need to do if we ever want to have another attempt at a Guinness Book of World Records entry for longest DPChallenge thread ;)LOL!
Message edited by author 2004-09-03 23:59:29.
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09/03/2004 11:41:49 PM · #19 |
Originally posted by wackybill:
Originally posted by mk:
You're still getting exactly what you paid for. |
Good answer. Makes me want to sign back up. NOT! |
You paid for an additional members' challenge as well as the open challenge. That is two challenges a week with an occassional speed challenge or more recently a free study at the discretion of the site owners. Competing in more challenges means more chances to win a ribbon. If you succeed to win two or more ribbons you have the opportunity to take part in additional challenges. You pay for two challenges but you have to earn the third. It's like collecting brownie points for later use. |
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09/03/2004 11:31:30 PM · #20 |
Originally posted by wackybill:
Originally posted by mk:
You're still getting exactly what you paid for. |
Good answer. Makes me want to sign back up. NOT! |
Let's see, you paid $25 for a year's membership and that gives you access to compete in 52 weekly challenges in addition to the 52 weekly challenges that the non-paying folks get. That works out to a cost of $0.4806 per challenge. And that's not counting the free-studies, speed challenges, portfolio space etc.
So what it really boils down to is a tantrum over 48 cents....
Sheeesh! |
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09/03/2004 11:29:47 PM · #21 |
Originally posted by wackybill:
I think this is a great idea. Can't wait till I can participate. Good luck to everyone in the challenge. I can't wait to see the results and I bet the photos will be awesome!
Okay, there, I have said it. I didn't mean to make any enemies tonight. Just speaking my opinion which has always been welcome in the past. |
Your opinions are still welcome, and important. I just ask that we let this experiment run through to completion before drawing any conclusions. I see potential for a lot of good side effects from this, many of which may not be immediately apparent.
-Terry
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09/03/2004 11:26:29 PM · #22 |
I think this is a great idea. Can't wait till I can participate. Good luck to everyone in the challenge. I can't wait to see the results and I bet the photos will be awesome!
Okay, there, I have said it. I didn't mean to make any enemies tonight. Just speaking my opinion which has always been welcome in the past.
Peace!!!
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09/03/2004 11:20:31 PM · #23 |
Originally posted by digistoune:
Originally posted by dacrazyrn:
Wasn't there a forum where many, many people wanted to see the ribbon winners/photographers go head to head? Cripes! Good idea. Fun! What else are you here for? There are a ton of "whiner" sites to go to for it.
I have only come close once with a 4th. I am trying to do better, but I like to shoot what I LIKE. Sometimes that doesn't end up being the most popular. If I WANT to ribbon, then I change my style of shooting and what I shoot to suit the tastes of the voters then. |
Good point! I too remember reading just such a thread and I also agree with you about shooting what I like, whether it ribbons or not. Sure the recognition is nice but I get more than enough praise for my work and good critiques too! Winning a ribbon on this site certainly isn't my ultimate goal and it's not even a prerequisit for the photography career I am embarking on.
What I don't understand is how bent out of shape some folks are getting over this challenge and for that matter, other topics that have come up in the past. Yeah, we've joked about this site being addictive and all but jeez, don't you people have a life? Do you have nothing better to do than bitch about something that is so obviously insignificant in the grand scheme of things? Listen, I'm not trying to be rude but if this is that upsetting to you, maybe you need to re-evaluate your participation in this site and your photography hobby. What are your goals and how does entering challenges help you reach those goals? Oh and put CHILL OUT on your list of things to do today! |
Thanks for the advice. I appreciate it and will chill out, but just not yet.
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09/03/2004 11:15:01 PM · #24 |
Originally posted by mk:
You're still getting exactly what you paid for. |
Good answer. Makes me want to sign back up. NOT!
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09/03/2004 11:14:34 PM · #25 |
Originally posted by Jacko:
Hey, maybe I'll have my 20D for the free study. Woot Woot. |
Let me be the first to say it: "YOU SUCK!!!" |
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