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09/03/2004 05:55:09 PM · #151 |
We can all get a bit childish at time, I know I have. Lighten up, it's just a website for having photos voted on, I know I did.
-danny
Originally posted by Dim7:
Originally posted by Konador:
Nobody is missing out on anything. Some people are just getting a bonus. |
I don`t see it that way! You just lost one membership! |
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09/03/2004 05:56:06 PM · #152 |
Originally posted by BobsterLobster:
Originally posted by Konador:
Nobody is missing out on anything. Some people are just getting a bonus. |
As I keep saying, there is a feeling that we are all missing out on a free study every month. Except now for ribbon winners this particular month. If people in general want a free study, then only ribbon winners can have one, the argument that they are not missing out on anything is not really valid... just a kick in the teeth. |
Some people think there should be a free study every month, some people don't. Your point is valid, but I just don't see how thinking something should be happening means that if something else happens, it is instead of it.
If I thought there should be an open speed challenge every day, then one day there is a members speed challenge, it doesn't mean that the member speed challenge was just to rub it in the faces of those who want an open speed challenge, since the daily open speed challenges weren't going to happen anyway.
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09/03/2004 05:56:51 PM · #153 |
| Whose idea was this challenge? |
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09/03/2004 06:01:33 PM · #154 |
Originally posted by Imagineer:
Whose idea was this challenge? |
Originally posted by langdon:
Wow. Please accept my apologies -- I didn't expect so much negativty as a result of this.
Firstly, I had limited time to write the implementation for this, so my quick way of blocking submissions from users who don't have 3 ribbons was to just kill the page and print a friendly (or apparently not-so-friendly) error. The idea wasn't to hide the rules/description from people who didn't meet the requirement. In fact anyone could have read the description if they went to the challenge index page.
I feel bad about forgetting the quarterly free study challenge for September. This Masters' Challenge is IN NO WAY a replacement for that -- we honestly just forgot to schedule it and didn't feel that it would be a good idea to run two free study challenges simultaneously.
And just to make it clear, the idea isn't to exclude anyone -- the two people who originally pitched this idea to me have exactly zero ribbons -- the idea was to just get a challenge full of awesome shots and make it really fun to vote on.
This brings me to my last two points: Voting is open to everyone. And if you win your second ribbon before September 30th, you CAN submit.
=/ |
Emphasis added.
They (Landon and Drew) own the site and can try out anything they want ... that's the way this site works.
Message edited by author 2004-09-03 18:03:28. |
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09/03/2004 06:01:47 PM · #155 |
Originally posted by Konador:
Originally posted by BobsterLobster:
Originally posted by Konador:
Nobody is missing out on anything. Some people are just getting a bonus. |
As I keep saying, there is a feeling that we are all missing out on a free study every month. Except now for ribbon winners this particular month. If people in general want a free study, then only ribbon winners can have one, the argument that they are not missing out on anything is not really valid... just a kick in the teeth. |
Some people think there should be a free study every month, some people don't. Your point is valid, but I just don't see how thinking something should be happening means that if something else happens, it is instead of it.
If I thought there should be an open speed challenge every day, then one day there is a members speed challenge, it doesn't mean that the member speed challenge was just to rub it in the faces of those who want an open speed challenge, since the daily open speed challenges weren't going to happen anyway. |
I still think you're missing the point.
to use your analogy of the daily challenges...
if many people want one, why shouldn't there be one?
Don't you think people would become frustrated if the powers that be constantly refused to provide them with no seemingly compelling reasons?
In your analogy there would be a good reason to provide the challenge to members and not make it open... the members are paying. This analogy does not translate well to this situation. No-one is saying that there is deliberate 'rubbing of faces', but if people want a free challenge, have paid their membership, feel ignored... then this is just going to make them feel even more ignored. I know that's how I would feel if I had no ribbons. |
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09/03/2004 06:03:14 PM · #156 |
Originally posted by Konador:
it doesn't mean that the member speed challenge was just to rub it in the faces of those who want an open speed challenge, since the daily open speed challenges weren't going to happen anyway. |
Who says they weren't going to happen anyway in your analogy? If we change it in your analogy to paying members, why shouldn't they get what they ask for? |
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09/03/2004 06:04:37 PM · #157 |
Almost sorry I started this thread...
If there is one burden I DO NOT envy Drew & Langdon and the SC,
it is that there is no way to please everyone, everytime, and
that is just an accepted fact of life and this site.
Keep up the GREAT work all!
Illegitimi Non Carborundum
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09/03/2004 06:08:11 PM · #158 |
Originally posted by BradP:
Almost sorry I started this thread... |
....yeah, they should DQ you for stirring up trouble again, Brad...tsk tsk tsk. ;o)
Message edited by author 2004-09-03 18:08:43. |
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09/03/2004 06:09:03 PM · #159 |
Originally posted by faidoi:
Now I can't wait for the Canon Cup, Nikon Cup, Olympus Cup, Sony Cup, Konica/Minolta Cup,etc and the winners of those events battle for the Best Camera :P |
Ha Ha, I love that idea! "Canon Cup", that's funny! |
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09/03/2004 06:09:25 PM · #160 |
I probably am missing the point :P, but I do seem to remember some good reasons why there is no free study every month that were brought out in the discussions a while back.
- No challenge, people could just enter their best photo each month. The challenge aspect is part of the site. Occasional free studies are good but a monthly free study might stop people bothering with normal challenges incase it might do better in the free study.
- People can't post shots to the forums in case they might submit it to the free study. They may have forgotten about a shot a whole month later.
- People can't post prints on DPCPritns in case the decide to submit the shot to the free study. They may have forgotten about a shot a whole month later.
- Devaluation of free study winners if there are too many.
- Some people who are professional portrait/stock/animal photographers would have a huge advantage with a free study. Not only are these types of photos popular on DPC, they shoot many photos every day, which they normally can't enter due to fitting the challenge. They could enter any photo they take in the whole year to one of the free studies. If you're trying to 'level the playing field' which is another large argument on this site, then this would not be the way to do it.
These aren't my opinions, just arguments against the idea of monthly free studies which have been brought up before, just to show that its not a reasonless decision.
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09/03/2004 06:10:02 PM · #161 |
Ok, i admit i confused and dont want to really read through 6 pages of posts. But eariler I couldn't see the challenge details but now I come back and see that I can see the details.
Did they modify the guideline to anyone with ribbons? Or is it still 3 or more ribbons to enter? |
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09/03/2004 06:10:58 PM · #162 |
Originally posted by BobsterLobster:
Originally posted by Konador:
it doesn't mean that the member speed challenge was just to rub it in the faces of those who want an open speed challenge, since the daily open speed challenges weren't going to happen anyway. |
Who says they weren't going to happen anyway in your analogy? If we change it in your analogy to paying members, why shouldn't they get what they ask for? |
Jeez! Almost everyone who has reviewed this site finds what you get for your two bucks a month is a bargain.
I think the admins are plenty busy, and while they are always looking for ways to improve the site, they are under no OBLIGATION to provide any more than they were at the time your signed up -- anything else is a bonus to be appreciated by those who get it, not a right to be demanded by all ... they are also more likely to implement user "suggestions" than to give in to user demands ... personally, if I was in charge of writing the site code, I'd schedule a long vacation after reading this thread ... one of the lessons even my second-grader already knows is "You Nag, We Lag." |
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09/03/2004 06:11:36 PM · #163 |
Originally posted by smokeditor:
Ok, i admit i confused and dont want to really read through 6 pages of posts. But eariler I couldn't see the challenge details but now I come back and see that I can see the details.
Did they modify the guideline to anyone with ribbons? Or is it still 3 or more ribbons to enter? |
Originally posted by langdon:
Wow. Please accept my apologies -- I didn't expect so much negativty as a result of this.
Firstly, I had limited time to write the implementation for this, so my quick way of blocking submissions from users who don't have 3 ribbons was to just kill the page and print a friendly (or apparently not-so-friendly) error. The idea wasn't to hide the rules/description from people who didn't meet the requirement. In fact anyone could have read the description if they went to the challenge index page.
I feel bad about forgetting the quarterly free study challenge for September. This Masters' Challenge is IN NO WAY a replacement for that -- we honestly just forgot to schedule it and didn't feel that it would be a good idea to run two free study challenges simultaneously.
I've just lowered the requirement to two ribbons. From statistics that we ran last night, this opens the playing field to 100 "active" members. The previous count was only 64 members.
And just to make it clear, the idea isn't to exclude anyone -- the two people who originally pitched this idea to me have exactly zero ribbons -- the idea was to just get a challenge full of awesome shots and make it really fun to vote on.
This brings me to my last two points: Voting is open to everyone. And if you win your second ribbon before September 30th, you CAN submit.
=/ |
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09/03/2004 06:11:40 PM · #164 |
Originally posted by BobsterLobster:
Originally posted by Konador:
it doesn't mean that the member speed challenge was just to rub it in the faces of those who want an open speed challenge, since the daily open speed challenges weren't going to happen anyway. |
Who says they weren't going to happen anyway in your analogy? If we change it in your analogy to paying members, why shouldn't they get what they ask for? |
Why don't tax payers get everything they ask for? :)
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09/03/2004 06:12:18 PM · #165 |
Originally posted by kellybean:
Originally posted by faidoi:
Now I can't wait for the Canon Cup, Nikon Cup, Olympus Cup, Sony Cup, Konica/Minolta Cup,etc and the winners of those events battle for the Best Camera :P |
Ha Ha, I love that idea! "Canon Cup", that's funny! |
Sorry, too much MarioKart Racing :P |
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09/03/2004 06:12:34 PM · #166 |
It's been modified to two ribbons, and Langdon was working on making the rules visible to all.
There are no voting restrictions. |
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09/03/2004 06:21:33 PM · #167 |
Kewl, thanks GeneralE.
That saved me alot of reading!!!! |
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09/03/2004 06:25:51 PM · #168 |
Originally posted by ghoti:
I think that this is a very bad idea. The people who have earned three or more ribbons know how to score here anyway, and thus already have an advantage. So why exclude everybody else and give even more ribbons to those who already have them? |
For the pleasure of the people who vote a lot.
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09/03/2004 06:28:00 PM · #169 |
Well, after reading the replies to my last comment from the council, I feel like pulling a Setzler, and taking myself off this site. Just who the hell do these guys think they are? I think the power is going to their heads.
As a paying member, I expect to be treated with respect, and not fobbed off as a 'nagger'. What you think privately is your business, but you have no right to condescend to the paying members in such an unprofessional way.
Konador, your list of objections to monthly free challenges is put very clearly, and I've not seen this list before in the many threads about this subject.
I think that the council needs to rethink their attitude towards the general DPC public and their 'nagging'.
Tax payers at least get the opportunity to vote for another government if things don't go so well.
I think one of my main problems with DPC is that I very much do not feel listened to. Surely that is the point of the council? Not to make condescending and disrespectful comments, but to act as a liason between us and the guys at the top. To do this you need to listen to us. |
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09/03/2004 06:29:59 PM · #170 |
| For what it is worth I think the idea is great. As someone with 0 ribbons I'm here to learn and this will give me some great material to look at. As for Langdon changing the rules, I think it shows they are very responsive to the subscribers. However, be careful as you know you can't please all the people all the time. The complaints here where only from a few. I look forward to the end of the month! |
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09/03/2004 06:31:30 PM · #171 |
Originally posted by BobsterLobster:
Well, after reading the replies to my last comment from the council, I feel like pulling a Setzler, and taking myself off this site. Just who the hell do these guys think they are? |
How would you describe this statement?
I'm a volunteer who tries to help the admins manage the site and "discuss" decisions in an advisory capacity, but otherwise am subject to all the same rules the rest of you are. |
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09/03/2004 06:31:35 PM · #172 |
Bobster - I feel exactly the same way.
Give someone a reward, they want extra reward - I think that's how it goes! Until now there wasn't a single so called 'Masters'' challenge. :P
Masters Free Study 1 suggests many more? I'll be outta here... |
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09/03/2004 06:34:23 PM · #173 |
Originally posted by GeneralE:
Originally posted by BobsterLobster:
Well, after reading the replies to my last comment from the council, I feel like pulling a Setzler, and taking myself off this site. Just who the hell do these guys think they are? |
How would you describe this statement?
I'm a volunteer who tries to help the admins manage the site and "discuss" decisions in an advisory capacity, but otherwise am subject to all the same rules the rest of you are. |
I'd describe that statement as very frustrated from someone not feeling listened to. |
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09/03/2004 06:34:58 PM · #174 |
Originally posted by langdon:
the idea was to just get a challenge full of awesome shots and make it really fun to vote on. |
Great, thanks a lot! :)
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09/03/2004 06:36:54 PM · #175 |
I post here as a member, not as a person of authority. I'm only in 'SC Mode' when talking about DQs or discussing things privately in the SC forums. If you don't like what I'm saying, then don't like me. Don't take it out on the SC as a whole.
With a change as big as a free study every month, the pro's and cons have to be talked about in detail, to make sure it doesn't negatively effect the site. Other than 'The members want it', can you write a list of reaons there should be a free study every month, for reference in the discussions? I'll be more than happy to bring the SC thread on the issue back to discussion, but I don't think the reasons for and against will have changed very much, if at all.
For smaller suggestions (like being able to mark comments helpful from the number of comments list on your profile :)!) we don't need to discuss them, because they are obviously good for the site.
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