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05/25/2007 04:03:00 PM · #76 |
Originally posted by karmat:
Actually, I think it was probably your use of the phrase "true self." That seems to imply that what you were 20 years ago is as true as what is today. While it may have affected you, and influenced who you are today, I seriously doubt any of us are the same as we were 20 years ago.
For some, basic beliefs and tenets can change 180^, and that can make them a totally different person. |
Thats it. I was rereading the posts and trying to figure out where the miscommunication was and you nailed it Karmat. The person I was 10, 20, 30 years ago surely influenced who I am now and the beliefs that I hold true. But the person I am now and the beliefs I hold now are not those of the person I used to be. |
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05/25/2007 04:06:33 PM · #77 |
Originally posted by karmat:
Actually, I think it was probably your use of the phrase "true self." That seems to imply that what you were 20 years ago is as true as what is today. While it may have affected you, and influenced who you are today, I seriously doubt any of us are the same as we were 20 years ago.
For some, basic beliefs and tenets can change 180^, and that can make them a totally different person. |
I understand and edited my original post to reflect what I meant.. Thank you for pointing that out. :-)
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05/25/2007 04:14:36 PM · #78 |
Originally posted by wavelength:
Originally posted by pamelasue:
Originally posted by Efergoh:
Originally posted by frisca:
I don't know who is filling your head full of ideas, but I think its important for you to go out and experience the world before you start giving advice on what should and shouldn't be. |
Perhaps those ideas are her own. Or perhaps those are the values passed to her by her family. Either case, I don't think it is our duty tell her that she is right or wrong.
The best part about equality is that it is not mandatory...it is the opportunity for equality that is the goal. It is her life, her path to choose as she sees fit. It would seem that she would be equally happy tending to the home and rearing children as another woman would be pursuing a career. Neither path is wrong if both are happy. |
Since you're not a woman ... I don't think you can fully understand exactly what NightShy is saying ... furthermore, she is the one telling the rest of us that it's wrong for a woman to have a mind of her own, goals of her own and desires of her own ... |
She didn't say that. Nothing in her post denigrated women who choose to have goals, it only pointed out that some have treated the womens lib movment as free license to forget that their family needs them. I didn't take her rant as being Dr. Laura specific, but I could be wrong.
I find it disconcerting that a young woman expresses an opinion, and is immediately condescended by the older women. It's not the 50's anymore, we should start looking at new solutions, not begrudging the old problems. I think some in the younger generation are fed up with the baby boomers, and in some part genX with their rampant selfishness and lack of drawing any boundaries on their family behavior is all.
All I'm saying is, try to look at her side before judging her. |
And uh, wavelength, anytime someone ends their "rant" as you put it with:
"Women these days are far too selfish, hard, and downright stupid.", it's going to envoke a response..
I appreciate the fact that you think the "older women" are immediateley condescending to her when she's just expressing her opinion, but I don't see it the same way. I think you may have missed what's obviously in black & white..If it were you she beraded & belittled in nothing less then Dr.Laura fashion, which is totally ironic if you've ever listened to her show, you might have found it a bit suprising & maybe even kinda shocking..
I think that's what the "older" women are reacting too..
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05/25/2007 04:18:46 PM · #79 |
Originally posted by kandykarml:
And uh, wavelength, anytime someone ends their "rant" as you put it with:
"Women these days are far too selfish, hard, and downright stupid.", it's going to envoke a response..
I appreciate the fact that you think the "older women" are immediateley condescending to her when she's just expressing her opinion, but I don't see it the same way. I think you may have missed what's obviously in black & white..If it were you she beraded & belittled in nothing less then Dr.Laura fashion, which is totally ironic if you've ever listened to her show, you might have found it a bit suprising & maybe even kinda shocking..
I think that's what the "older" women are reacting too.. |
Yeah, I've only heard her once or twice, i get that the statment is similar to Laura style, but I think it would be wise to remember we don't really know where she's coming from.
If someone berated me like that, my wife would calm me down eventually :) |
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05/25/2007 04:21:32 PM · #80 |
Originally posted by wavelength:
Originally posted by kandykarml:
And uh, wavelength, anytime someone ends their "rant" as you put it with:
"Women these days are far too selfish, hard, and downright stupid.", it's going to envoke a response..
I appreciate the fact that you think the "older women" are immediateley condescending to her when she's just expressing her opinion, but I don't see it the same way. I think you may have missed what's obviously in black & white..If it were you she beraded & belittled in nothing less then Dr.Laura fashion, which is totally ironic if you've ever listened to her show, you might have found it a bit suprising & maybe even kinda shocking..
I think that's what the "older" women are reacting too.. |
Yeah, I've only heard her once or twice, i get that the statment is similar to Laura style, but I think it would be wise to remember we don't really know where she's coming from.
If someone berated me like that, my wife would calm me down eventually :) |
lol.. Good for you... My hubby's at work so I didn't have that option so I apologize for getting a little carried away..
BTW, your post on the first page was very touching.. I'm gonna go read it again so I can get back that all "warm & fuzzy feeling inside"..
Yep, read it again.. warm & fuzzy is back and I cant wait for my hubby to get home.. !!!
Message edited by author 2007-05-25 16:25:22. |
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05/25/2007 04:22:32 PM · #81 |
I have been married for four years now, granted that's not a very long time, but I do have some advice. I have always believed that when you meet the right person, you will know from the very beginning. I never doubted that, though others didn't agree. When I met my husband, I knew from our first date that he was the man I wanted to marry.
Marriage is a partnership in the truest since of the word. We talk about every decision together, not because we have to, but because we want to. Life is too hard to have a partner that you can not count on, or one that causes you additional stress. |
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05/25/2007 04:25:41 PM · #82 |
Originally posted by kandykarml:
Originally posted by wavelength:
Originally posted by kandykarml:
And uh, wavelength, anytime someone ends their "rant" as you put it with:
"Women these days are far too selfish, hard, and downright stupid.", it's going to envoke a response..
I appreciate the fact that you think the "older women" are immediateley condescending to her when she's just expressing her opinion, but I don't see it the same way. I think you may have missed what's obviously in black & white..If it were you she beraded & belittled in nothing less then Dr.Laura fashion, which is totally ironic if you've ever listened to her show, you might have found it a bit suprising & maybe even kinda shocking..
I think that's what the "older" women are reacting too.. |
Yeah, I've only heard her once or twice, i get that the statment is similar to Laura style, but I think it would be wise to remember we don't really know where she's coming from.
If someone berated me like that, my wife would calm me down eventually :) |
lol.. Good for you... My hubby's at work so I didn't have that option so I apologize for getting a little carried away..
BTW, your post on the first page was very touching.. I'm gonna go read it again so I can get back that all "warm & fuzzy feeling inside".. |
Thanks! It's good for the soul to wax poetic every so often ;) |
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05/25/2007 04:26:16 PM · #83 |
Originally posted by pibby:
Life is too hard to have a partner that you can not count on, or one that causes you additional stress. |
Very well put... |
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05/25/2007 04:38:58 PM · #84 |
Originally posted by wavelength:
Thanks! It's good for the soul to wax poetic every so often ;) |
I'm quoting this so you can't take it back.
btw, just to add to what I said about feelings. I'm more in love with my wife now than I've ever been. I'm just saying don't count on that when you enter into a marriage.
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05/25/2007 04:40:17 PM · #85 |
The key to any marriage is to pick the right ring.
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05/25/2007 04:41:53 PM · #86 |
My wife (of 16+ years) and I have found that you can really spice up a marriage with llamas, goats, and beer. You should try them, even if you're single. You just can't have more fun than llamas, goats, and beer!
  
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05/25/2007 04:55:39 PM · #87 |
Originally posted by posthumous:
You have to be able to interact well with your partner. You have to communicate well. You have to understand the way he functions, and vice versa. You have to be aware when his moods are shifting, when he is spiraling into some new condition. You need some awareness of your own shifts and you need to communicate those as best you can. |
Hum, very well put. Nicest insight into reciprocal relating I've read yet.
-- Another "me too" post brought to you by Louis! |
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05/25/2007 04:58:34 PM · #88 |
Marriage is not hard work if both partners are on the same work plan.
I have been married twice, 13yrs the first, now 24yrs at present because we are both 2nd timers and wished it to work. This rule can be applied to the first marriage.
Marriage is not really hard if you do as she say's this way it makes her feel good, and you save a lot of hassle.
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05/25/2007 06:43:29 PM · #89 |
Originally posted by klstover:
Well this is a weird question for a photography forum.
I believe that marriage is forever, and that love takes work. If you understand where I'm coming from, then maybe you can explain some about how can you balance between "okay, this is way too much work in this relationship and we shouldn't get married" and "an acceptable level of work"? |
I have read most of the posts in this thread; and there is some great advice.
First of all, the marriage is forever ideal is wonderful, but also a lot of pressure. Your relationship with yourself should take first priority and marriage should be "forever" only as long as the marriage doesn't damage your self esteem. You can't control the duration of your marriage, because you can't control another person. The best anyone can do is to marry someone they truly believe they can be with forever and don't beat themselves up if it doesn't work out.
As someone who has spent too much time "working" on relationships in the past, I can tell you that there is no acceptable level of work if it isn't working. In other words, if the effort is unbalanced and the results are not visible then it's not "work", it's masochism.
On the other hand, no one else but you can learn the lessons that life has in store for you; and sometimes no amount of good advice can prevent the mistakes that you need to make.
My own advice to you is to be honest with yourself and your partner at all times, even if it is scary. By this I mean don't put your wants or dreams or feelings aside for fear that he won't like you for who you are. Besides you have plenty of time. Never settle for less than everything you deserve. I didn't find my wonderful relationship until I was 34 (shortly after I started being honest with myself and others).
Good luck to you. |
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05/25/2007 07:17:35 PM · #90 |
I don't remember seeing this said but...
Keep in mind that marriage doesn't *have* to be an option in the first place. There are a huge number of people that are living their lives happy and carefree without ever even considering the paper and ceremony.
Just thought I'd get that out there. |
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05/25/2007 07:45:04 PM · #91 |
Originally posted by posthumous:
Originally posted by klstover:
Okay, hi everybody... can we please stop arguing? :-) Thanks. |
don't get married with that attitude! hahahaha |
Heehee! |
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05/25/2007 09:03:37 PM · #92 |
Originally posted by Artyste:
I don't remember seeing this said but...
Keep in mind that marriage doesn't *have* to be an option in the first place. There are a huge number of people that are living their lives happy and carefree without ever even considering the paper and ceremony.
Just thought I'd get that out there. |
Finally someone said it, thank you. I'm very happily divorced and would never consider marriage again, a long term relationship yes but not a marriage. But then I married one of those men who bought into the 50's housewife at his beck and call with no right to have desires/need/thoughts of her own. I don't recommend it, denying everything that you are in order to keep someone happy is indeed a sentence. I came out of it with the belief that the most important thing in life is the freedom to be yourself. I do believe it's possible to have that freedom within a relationship...now if only I could find time for a relationship. |
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05/25/2007 09:15:30 PM · #93 |
I've found that a marriage can also be spiced up by a gerbil, a tube, and a firecracker.
  
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05/25/2007 09:57:56 PM · #94 |
Originally posted by DrAchoo:
And really not to throw this thread way off track, for the guys (and also for the girls, but especially the guys), not having sex before you get married. I know that is hugely old fashioned, but I think it's sound advice for one reason. When you are young and a guy it is very hard to know if you are in love with the sex or in love with the woman. Again, I realize I'm "out of step" with society, but it's the one thing I am somehow going to try to impress on my son. I have no idea how I'm going to do it, but I'm going to try... |
I have to agree here. Not because I think it's hypothetically a good idea but because my wife and I didn't heed this advice. We learned the hard way. We've been married 10 years this August. We built our relationship on a physical foundation instead of a relational/caring foundation. We have perservered but it has required hard work to overcome old hurts and scars from our pre-married days.
Marriage is a commitment, but you have to ask "What am I really committed to?" Personal saftey? Sex? Feeling loved? Loving someone else? Controlling someone? Being controlled? Or committed to knowing someone deeply, knowing yourself more, achieving things together you couldn't on your own... Exploring that question can reveal a lot about yourself, the person you are with, and the state of the relationship.
Take your time. Get to know yourself first. Then you'll know what you have to offer to someone else, and what you can receive from them.
Message edited by author 2007-05-25 21:58:41. |
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05/25/2007 10:08:31 PM · #95 |
Well, that is one school of thought...
The downside of that is that if you wait to have sex until after the rings are exchanged you run the risk of being chained to a person with whom you would rather masturbate with a cheese grater than have sex with.
Sex isn't everything, nor is it the most important part of a marriage, but damn...I don't want a lifetime of bad pooty just because I was chaste before marriage.
edited because grammar is not my strong suit
Message edited by author 2007-05-26 01:07:23.
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05/25/2007 10:09:49 PM · #96 |
Originally posted by Strikeslip:
I've found that a marriage can also be spiced up by a gerbil, a tube, and a firecracker. |
Don't forget the rubber chicken and the peach preserves...
Message edited by author 2007-05-25 22:10:07.
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05/25/2007 10:24:19 PM · #97 |
Originally posted by Efergoh:
Well, that is one school of thought...
The downside of that is that if you wait to have sex until after the rings are exchanged you run the risk of being chained being to a person with whom you would rather masturbate with a cheese grater than have sex with.
Sex isn't everything, nor is it the most important part of a marriage, but damn...I don't want a lifetime of bad pooty just because I was chaste before marriage. |
Amen. Find out as much as you can before you make a lifetime commitment.
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05/25/2007 10:35:39 PM · #98 |
Originally posted by posthumous:
Originally posted by Efergoh:
Well, that is one school of thought...
The downside of that is that if you wait to have sex until after the rings are exchanged you run the risk of being chained being to a person with whom you would rather masturbate with a cheese grater than have sex with.
Sex isn't everything, nor is it the most important part of a marriage, but damn...I don't want a lifetime of bad pooty just because I was chaste before marriage. |
Amen. Find out as much as you can before you make a lifetime commitment. |
yup. the man and i have been married before, and have no desire to do it again. we have a wonderful sprog together, and view our relationship as just a valid and strong as one with the bit of paper attached. i suppose we're lucky that we live in canada, where commonlaw couples have the same rights as married.
Message edited by author 2007-05-25 22:36:39.
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05/25/2007 10:48:32 PM · #99 |
Originally posted by Wildcard:
My mothers sage advice on this was "If in doubt, don't" I probably should've listened to her. |
On my wedding day I stood at a pay phone, many miles from my home and family, making a rash decision to get married in another state on the spur of the moment.. I called my grandma from a pay phone, needing advice, needing her to tell me NO.. and she did.. she said those exact words to me!!! If in doubt, DON'T! and I did it anyway. Needless to say, a few years later the marriage unraveled and a few years after that ended in divorce.. but I did learn one thing.. when such a big decision needs to be made, and no one else can make it but me, I will listen with my head and feel with my heart and I will never doubt myself again. |
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05/25/2007 11:26:45 PM · #100 |
Originally posted by klstover:
Well this is a weird question for a photography forum.
I believe that marriage is forever, and that love takes work. If you understand where I'm coming from, then maybe you can explain some about how can you balance between "okay, this is way too much work in this relationship and we shouldn't get married" and "an acceptable level of work"? |
I agree with love takes work. Love is not purely emotion like the movies say. You don't just fall in and out of it. It is allot of work, but the rewards are spectacular.
My only advice in any relationship is that both parties need to be unselfish to have it work wonderfully. Both parties involved can't be into that "well I feel", and "I wish that it was better for me" type thinking. You have to be only thinking about the other persons feelings and how you can better their life, without any expectation of your own. If either party becomes selfish, then the relationship can be very tough on the other.
Good luck. |
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