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05/26/2007 07:01:32 PM · #126 |
Originally posted by Chiqui:
How did this thread go from being about marriage to discussing religion? We all know what happens with threads about religion....they get put in "Rants". Let's stry to stay on track, please. |
Exactly... that's why I just gave a brief statement of what I believed. Other people believe differently, and I respect that. It really doesn't matter for this discussion because when I said love was "forever" I just meant that I don't think divorce is as valid an option as a lot of others, or society, thinks it is, and wasn't trying to make any sort of religious statement :-) |
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05/26/2007 09:27:03 PM · #127 |
I wish to address the miscommunication that has happened.
About my age and experience:
I'm very young. What do I know about being a wife or mother? Nothing. I've never been either. All I know about it is what I've observed in my own life and how being a child of a working mother and neglectful women has influenced my life and my loved ones.
This is a subject I feel very strong about through my own study and meditation.
About working women:
I very much like to clear up what my stance is on working women. YOU GO SISTA! I NEVER attacked the position of workingwoman (posthumous, you were entirely wrong sir). I'm all for women in the workplace. I think there is a huge need for a different point of view in the world. I think women should go to college and be as successful as they can in their lives. I support that 100%. WE NEED THIS IN THE WORLD. I have no problem with women who choose to have a career over family. That is respectable and admirable for women to go out and grab life by the balls.
What I DO NOT support is if you put your work before your family. Family, husband, wife, children etc, should ALWAYS come first. I strongly believe that there should be a stay at home parentwhen there are children at home. I love stay at home dad's and they never get enough credit but in most cases the woman is the one staying at home (argue what you will girls, but women are born with an instinct to mother). I applaud the woman who posted earlier about quitting her high paying job to stay with her newborn baby. We don't have enough REAL WOMEN like that in the world. ANYONE can live on one income. Your children will appreciate your unconditional love, attention, support and teaching a lot more than the fancy house or speedboat. Please, please, find me any study that suggests children develop just as well growing up neglected in day care and I'll be willing to admit defeat.
I think the women's movement hurt a lot for women. Where did chivalry go? We don’t earn it anymore. We cannot treat our men like crap and then expect to be treated like Queens! Timothy Leary was a little kooky, but he hit it right on the nose with this one:
"Women who seek to be equal with men lack ambition."
Children need parents. Not daycare. Husbands need wives, not a nag. Wives need a Husband, not a boss.
I NEVER said women shouldn't have dreams or aspirations (we would be in a whole world of hurt if women didn't dream) or that they shouldn't be on the same "level" as men. In my opinion you can't categorize men and women together because we are all just too different. That's what's so wonderful about marriage! If you are both the same, what's the use for the other person, right? They magnify each other's strengths are help each other in weakness. They are not equal, they are a TEAM. You don't want two Kobe Bryants on a team, you want a Stockton to Malone. I don't believe in being barefoot and pregnant. I do believe in family as an eternal stronghold for love and progression. And I strongly believe the fading of the family unit is the first cause of many of the world’s problems.
Personally, in my life, divorce is a bad word which will never be used in my future home. It is not even an option for my future husband and I unless our children are in danger. Marriage is forever. It is not to be taken lightly or thrown out easily.
I have many dreams and aspirations of my own. I want to be a photographer who gets to travel and interperate what our beautiful world has to offer. And I know I’ll be that someday. But more than that, I want to be a mother and wife. Photography is the best career I think, because I’ll be able to work from home and control my workload. Family will ALWAYS come first in my home for everyone. Husband, wife, father, mother, brother, sister, children. Family is first.
Woman and Men, don’t try to be equal! Embrace the unique qualities you were given and amplify your talents. Everyone, regardless of gender, can change this world in their own special way. Don’t ever try to be the same.
Thank you to all those who supported my unpopular viewpoints (interesting that most are men…) and didn't write me off as a babbling teenager, I’m unnerved that so many women seen themselves so victimized by my words.
I hope I cleared things up so you can better understand me.
And by the way, the best relationship advice I’ve ever received was:
Be the kind of woman that the kind of man you want to marry will want to marry you.
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05/26/2007 09:34:42 PM · #128 |
 NightShy As one of the "older" women of the site (even though I am not that old), and a wife and mother, I applaud your post and wholeheartedly agree.
Thanks for taking the time to clarify. |
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05/26/2007 09:47:42 PM · #129 |
My cat keeps getting the bunnies down in our bush and the neighbors bush. Now I love that she is an outdoor cat and I can't keep her in but the tought of another bunny being carried back to us is just too much to bear. Is there something I can put around the bushes that the bunnies will like but the Cat will not. If another wife, or mommy bunny comes home from a long days work to find out that my work away from the home savy Kitty has gone and taken away another neglected baby bunny I just don't know. Any suggestions? Is it nature or nuture that is causing this?
Message edited by author 2007-05-26 21:48:09. |
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05/26/2007 10:16:27 PM · #130 |
Well, I don't know about her age, but Nightshy certainly has put thought behind her words. I think it took guts to write what she originally wrote. And although the vim and vigor of youth sometimes needs tempering by the experience and calmness of age, there are uncomfortable truths in what she said.
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05/26/2007 10:18:39 PM · #131 |
Originally posted by DrAchoo:
Well, I don't know about her age, but Nightshy certainly has put thought behind her words. I think it took guts to write what she originally wrote. And although the vim and vigor of youth sometimes needs tempering by the experience and calmness of age, there are uncomfortable truths in what she said. |
I was seriouse about my bunny situation and did not want to take away from her word either. We mentored little girl for big brothers big sisters and he mother stayed at home on welfare to take care of her. One of the best Moms I have every met. Jobs, Money don't mean much, its love that means more. |
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05/26/2007 10:36:10 PM · #132 |
Marriage..Should be forever, yes. Sometimes it happens impulsively and you thought for sure he/she was the one. Divorce is tough pill but is better than paying for a mistake with your life of misery. a I for one couldn't recommend it with a clear concious....
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05/27/2007 12:07:14 AM · #133 |
Originally posted by NightShy:
I NEVER attacked the position of workingwoman (posthumous, you were entirely wrong sir). |
I can't tell your intentions. I can only tell what you wrote. And it was an attack.
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05/27/2007 12:31:19 AM · #134 |
| NightShy, will you marry me? |
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05/27/2007 12:49:21 AM · #135 |
Originally posted by posthumous:
Originally posted by NightShy:
I NEVER attacked the position of workingwoman (posthumous, you were entirely wrong sir). |
I can't tell your intentions. I can only tell what you wrote. And it was an attack. |
Only an "attack" on workingMOTHERS who put their careers before family. I never said anything about workingwomen at all.
Originally posted by ibkc:
NightShy, will you marry me? |
Yes :) Only if you can tolerate having a delicious meal ready for you when you get home from a long days work proving for your family!
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05/27/2007 12:56:55 AM · #136 |
Great! I'll begin the arrangements. I was settled on getting an 'au pair' off the internet. Had a lovely lady from the Ukraine picked out and added to my shopping cart. This will save on lots of paperwork.
But seriously, I agree with your point here. |
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05/27/2007 12:59:27 AM · #137 |
Originally posted by NightShy:
Only an "attack" on workingMOTHERS |
ah, I stand corrected.
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05/27/2007 06:29:26 AM · #138 |
Originally posted by NightShy:
I applaud the woman who posted earlier about quitting her high paying job to stay with her newborn baby. We don't have enough REAL WOMEN like that in the world. ANYONE can live on one income. |
So, what you are saying is that those who choose to still work once they have children are not real women? That sounds like an attack.
As for the one income, I am sorry to break this to you but not ANYONE can live on one income. Unfortunately, rents are high and bills pile up. Sometimes, specially if you have a family, you NEED two incomes just to get by. Not everyone has a great paying job that is capable of supporting 4 or 5 people. So, would I rather live in a dump and badly just so I can stay home with my kids or go out there and work so I can give them a bit more? I'll go with the latter. Call me a bad mother if you will.
June
Message edited by author 2007-05-27 06:39:14.
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05/27/2007 07:04:17 AM · #139 |
| Ahhhh NightShy... I hope real life doesn't hit you too hard. |
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05/27/2007 09:24:25 AM · #140 |
I know a woman who works as a cleaner.. She has kids at various growing stages.. Her husband is a handy man.. he gets payed on commission .. She gets up at 5 in the morning and goes to different places to clean up other people's dirt.. most of what her husband earns he consumes in alcohol.. but she is determined to keep her marriage [She also doesn't believe in divorce].. She has raised her kids as well as she can.. She barely sees her kids because one of her kids needs to have an ear operation .. Is she a good mother?
It's nice to have ideals of the perfect families but reality is hardly ever ideal.. Mothers are probably the most important person in anyone's life.. I do believe that mother's should understand that and fulfill their role positively..
But all women, all situations are not the same.. Most of the women in the "working women" category are not high flying high business individuals.. most will be like the one mentioned above.. It's naive to generalize.. |
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05/27/2007 09:34:22 AM · #141 |
Originally posted by Chiqui:
Originally posted by NightShy:
I applaud the woman who posted earlier about quitting her high paying job to stay with her newborn baby. We don't have enough REAL WOMEN like that in the world. ANYONE can live on one income. |
So, what you are saying is that those who choose to still work once they have children are not real women? That sounds like an attack.
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Once more, we are missing the specifics and reacting to a general blanket statement, which was in fact, never issued. NightShy was quite clear that she applauded working women, and that her comments were addressed to those who neglected their family in favor of work, and as a result their children are raised by daycare, come home alone, etc.
I won't argue the income statement with you, as that certainly depends on the situation of individuals. I am certain there are some families where both parents have to work. And in that group, I'm sure there are still parents who manage to do so without neglecting their families, which is definetly a good thing :-) The impression I got from the whole thing was the drawing of a line between those who are content to have a family and a comfortable living, and those who sacrafice their family in their lust for aquiring more money/stuff/etc.
And Wildcard, what exactly is your comment supposed to mean? There's an implication of something there, that based on your experiences, she must be in for a surprise down the line? Bear in mind that the "real world" is subject to the experiences and mindsets of individuals, and it is entirely possible for her to remain true to herself and get along just fine in the world. Your version of "real life" isn't necessarily anyone else's.
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05/27/2007 12:55:29 PM · #142 |
Originally posted by OdysseyF22:
And Wildcard, what exactly is your comment supposed to mean? |
It means that NightShy hasn't been a woman very long and you have never been a woman at all, so it's a little odd that you're telling women how they should behave.
edited to add: sorry, Kelly. I'll stop now.
Message edited by author 2007-05-27 12:58:06.
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05/27/2007 01:02:53 PM · #143 |
| Don, unless there's something you haven't told us, I don't think you've been a woman either. Have you? Well??? :-) |
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05/27/2007 01:54:01 PM · #144 |
Originally posted by Melethia:
Don, unless there's something you haven't told us, I don't think you've been a woman either. Have you? Well??? :-) |
Isn't it terrible how we are all making assumptions about each other? ;)
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05/27/2007 02:18:08 PM · #145 |
Originally posted by NightShy:
ANYONE can live on one income. |
HA! HA! HA! HA!
If you or your significant other make enough to live on one income, that's great for you. You should consider yourself fortunate. The sad reality is that many families cannot get by on TWO or even three incomes.
It's called being poor and, trust me, it sucks. |
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05/27/2007 02:46:20 PM · #146 |
Originally posted by posthumous:
Originally posted by Melethia:
Don, unless there's something you haven't told us, I don't think you've been a woman either. Have you? Well??? :-) |
Isn't it terrible how we are all making assumptions about each other? ;) |
Aye mate, it really is. :-) I'm going to heed that and shut-up before I annoy anyone else.
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05/27/2007 06:25:14 PM · #147 |
Originally posted by Chiqui:
So, what you are saying is that those who choose to still work once they have children are not real women? That sounds like an attack.
June |
It’s how you choose to work. My sister-in-law took a graveyard shift at a local boarding school that allowed her to send her son off to school and husband off to work in the mornings, sleep while they were gone, and be ready for family dinner and responsibilities before they even got home. She sacrificed her comfort and sleep so she didn’t have to sacrifice her family.
Originally posted by Chiqui:
As for the one income, I am sorry to break this to you but not ANYONE can live on one income. Unfortunately, rents are high and bills pile up. Sometimes, specially if you have a family, you NEED two incomes just to get by. Not everyone has a great paying job that is capable of supporting 4 or 5 people. So, would I rather live in a dump and badly just so I can stay home with my kids or go out there and work so I can give them a bit more? I'll go with the latter. Call me a bad mother if you will.
June |
Yes. ANYONE. And it doesn’t have to be a dump. I grew up with a single parent dad most of my young childhood working a laughable low paying job supporting 3 young children. We didn’t have a color TV or cable, we didn’t go out to eat, we didn’t have fancy cars, and I even got rubber cement for a Christmas present once (holy cow, was I ever happy! I loved that stuff)! Guess what? I NEVER KNEW WE WERE WITHOUT! The ONLY thing I thought I didn’t have was a MOTHER. But I’m blessed to have psudomothers like my friend’s moms and my incredible grandma that taught me integrity, love, hard work and tolerance. They are more my mothers than my real mother or stepmother. Both of who are working moms who care for things instead of relationships with their children. Now, if I knew I wasn’t whom my children saw as their mother, my heart would break forever.
Originally posted by Wildcard:
Ahhhh NightShy... I hope real life doesn't hit you too hard. |
“REAL” life is no respecter of age, gender, race or favorite color. Who are you to be the referee of what adversity is or who is fit for it? Shame on you!
Originally posted by UrfaTheGreat:
I know a woman who works as a cleaner.. She has kids at various growing stages.. Her husband is a handy man.. he gets payed on commission .. She gets up at 5 in the morning and goes to different places to clean up other people's dirt.. most of what her husband earns he consumes in alcohol.. but she is determined to keep her marriage [She also doesn't believe in divorce].. She has raised her kids as well as she can.. She barely sees her kids because one of her kids needs to have an ear operation .. Is she a good mother?
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I know personally I never want to be in that position so I’m preparing now. I know I’ll never marry any man who goes near alcohol or has other addictive or abusive tendencies. I am careful NOW with my money and live within my income even if that means I can’t have some luxuries. I think far too often young couples think because their in love and want to get married, that it’s always the best time to do it. I firmly believe a strong and supported financial, trusting and loving foundation in the beginning is the only way to start.
Originally posted by OdysseyF22:
Originally posted by Chiqui:
So, what you are saying is that those who choose to still work once they have children are not real women? That sounds like an attack.
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Once more, we are missing the specifics and reacting to a general blanket statement, which was in fact, never issued. NightShy was quite clear that she applauded working women, and that her comments were addressed to those who neglected their family in favor of work, and as a result their children are raised by daycare, come home alone, etc.
I won't argue the income statement with you, as that certainly depends on the situation of individuals. I am certain there are some families where both parents have to work. And in that group, I'm sure there are still parents who manage to do so without neglecting their families, which is definetly a good thing :-) The impression I got from the whole thing was the drawing of a line between those who are content to have a family and a comfortable living, and those who sacrafice their family in their lust for aquiring more money/stuff/etc.
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You hit it right on. See, this is why our world would be awful with one sex and why we need a balance of men and women. He understood exactly!
Ladies, stop victimizing yourselves so darn much for heaven’s sake and actually listen to what I’m writing. What exactly about it is immoral or bad for the welfare of mankind? Am I advocating hate or violence? Why are so many passions inflamed because I am starting young to make a way in my life to be a mother and wife instead of the sadly popular trend of Mommy Boss? Why is it wrong to make the decision now that my future husband and I will never add to the far too high divorce rate, or that my children will never go to daycare? Yes! Life isn’t all peach cheeks and daisies! I can’t think of anything more devastating that losing a husband or child and I pray I’ll never have to taste such sorrow, but if I do, I know God is doing it for my good. Life is what you make of it. You can either become hard and bitter and bring down the world with negativity, or you can see your hard times as opportunities to better the world with your experience.
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05/27/2007 06:49:49 PM · #148 |
this is really deviating from marriage
so a bit more personal story ..
my wife likes to work - she has a great job that has much flexibility
i have quit jobs & relocated to give her the advantage in job choice she required
our kids are getting ALL the advantages of the dual income & we are spending every last moment we can with them ... because soon enough they will have to bring up their own kids with the lessons we teach them now.
my personal view & anecdotal observed evidence suggests that we are doing the right thing for our children -
and on topic- marry the person who shares your views concerning this & it is one less thing to argue about later ..
(same goes with money - don't marry a spender if you are a saver or vice-versa --- keep the fiscal policy mutual ;)
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05/27/2007 07:29:22 PM · #149 |
Dang, just spent 15 minutes responding on a cell phone connection and then it vaporized, maybe a good thing ;)
. so parden misspelling, such a small screen and an iff internet connection too.
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Now, now Deb, and I thought we were friends, just kidding, well as I get older my boobs are getting bigger ;)
I simple question, why in the hell are so many people here attacking individuals by name just because they want to be stay at home mom's. Boy oh boy there are some insecure people here at DPC. When people start calling others out by name and saying that their opinions are totally wrong, well there are rocks that a few people need to go hide under. AND I'm not giving any names, the ones that feel like hrowing those rocks can self decide who they are. I admire these young women and wives who have chosen to to spend more quality time with their kids even if it means no new car, a bigger house or a new camera. Yes everyone needs a certain amount of cash and sometimes it really is needed to have all the adults in the house to work to just meet the basics, I'm sorry and pray that those in this situation can finds a happier way to not have to work so hard. But for those who want a bigger house, a new fast car or a high priced new camera and lens, well I agree with the ones that say a kids baseball game, a picnic in the park, helping them with homework and meeting your kids friends is far more important. If you put your kids in day care so you can buy luxury I still say shame on you. They need you more than you need a fast sports car. For those who are struggling to pay rent of buy food and clothes then I hope your day care is inexpensive and safe, you are doing what you need to do and again I hope you can meet ends and try to spend as much quality time with your kids as you can.\.
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So I hope ya'll can see, I'm not attacking anyone, just support for those you have been attacked needlessly. Since the attackers will not be considerate to fellow humans and DPC members, I apoligize to everyone on all sides of this attack thread. Shame on me and everyone who called out individuals as being bad people. Take care of yourself, your husband, your kids and your friends. This attitude of personal attacks on this "PHOTO SITE" is just BS!
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So everyone just be friends, heck this would be a great site if it stayed on the subject of photography. Hey SC's instead of a Rant section, how about a completey separate site where this BS can be fought out and limit DPC to photography!!!
AND Yup, I'm smiling and having a great time down here in Mexico trying to type this on a cell phone (please excuse spelling). Go ahead, attack me, I probably will not see it ..... so there ;) ... and yes I always go braless and went swimming topless at the beach ;)
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Originally posted by Melethia:
Don, unless there's something you haven't told us, I don't think you've been a woman either. Have you? Well??? :-) |
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05/27/2007 07:55:26 PM · #150 |
Originally posted by NightShy:
Originally posted by Chiqui:
As for the one income, I am sorry to break this to you but not ANYONE can live on one income. Unfortunately, rents are high and bills pile up. Sometimes, specially if you have a family, you NEED two incomes just to get by. Not everyone has a great paying job that is capable of supporting 4 or 5 people. So, would I rather live in a dump and badly just so I can stay home with my kids or go out there and work so I can give them a bit more? I'll go with the latter. Call me a bad mother if you will.
June |
Yes. ANYONE. And it doesn’t have to be a dump. I grew up with a single parent dad most of my young childhood working a laughable low paying job supporting 3 young children. We didn’t have a color TV or cable, we didn’t go out to eat, we didn’t have fancy cars, and I even got rubber cement for a Christmas present once (holy cow, was I ever happy! I loved that stuff)! Guess what? I NEVER KNEW WE WERE WITHOUT! The ONLY thing I thought I didn’t have was a MOTHER. But I’m blessed to have psudomothers like my friend’s moms and my incredible grandma that taught me integrity, love, hard work and tolerance. They are more my mothers than my real mother or stepmother. Both of who are working moms who care for things instead of relationships with their children. Now, if I knew I wasn’t whom my children saw as their mother, my heart would break forever.
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Maybe it was possible in the past, but not with a minimum wage today of $5.15/hour, or, $10,710 per year before taxes. Today, it is simply not possible to provide a stable home on that income for one person, let alone a family.
Message edited by author 2007-05-27 19:58:31. |
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