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02/16/2004 09:09:42 AM · #1 |
[This is my first time starting a rant about my score in a challenge, so please bear with me while I attempt to console myself by venting a bit.]
My "Shallow DOF" entry had what I would consider that "stock photo" look to it, and it was totally clobbered in the challenge:
It was killed by the "seen it a hundred times" drops of water on a piece of glass, and beaten by a cat, flowers, and not one but multiple figurine shots. arrrgghhhhh!!!!....
I realize that not every shot I enter will do well, which is why I don't normally rant about my entries that are "clunkers". But this one is different. I challenged myself with this entry to try things I've never done before. So I think it is partially because I spent a lot of time on it, partially because it was a difficult subject matter to photograph, and partially because this "style" of food photography is very prevalent in recipe books and restaurant menus and such, so I thought people would "relate".
It took a lot of time because I wanted to learn how to make fake ice cream. So I researched that, went to the store to buy the ingredients, mixed it up, tinted it to look like "french vanilla", etc. Then I had to learn how to "style" it to try to get it to look like real ice cream. I didn't get any "the ice cream looks fake" comments, so about the only positive is that maybe I succeeded in that respect.
It was difficult to shoot because even though I was using fake ice cream to avoid the mess caused by melting, I didn't realize how "flimsy" even a refrigerated piece of pie is. All of the following shots were taken within a few seconds of each other, and as you can see, with each passing second, the pie quickly begins to lose its shape, to the point where it quickly becomes a flattened blob:
Finally, tilted, extremely-shallow DOF shots are a common food shooting style. To me, this looks like something you might see in a "stock photo" catalog or in a recipe book. I'm just really surprised it did as poorly as it did, because I honestly was expecting a much better score with this shot. But placing in the 43rd percentile? Wow. Total shock. The only times I've had shots below that were my 1st and 5th submissions here on DPC!
In the end I know it comes down to whether or not I like the shot, and I do. And at least I challenged myself by shooting a difficult subject, and tried something new. But it still sucks when it is all said and done and voters think so many other pictures are better (especially considering the subject matter of some of them...)
Message edited by author 2004-02-16 10:09:22. |
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02/16/2004 09:26:38 AM · #2 |
As you said, it was never going to win as it hasn't the wow! factor. But your score is a lot lower than I would have thought.
When I submitted my food shot  I was surprised at the amount of people that said it needed more focus - so perhaps people prefer food shots with small apertures?
I also submitted a clean and tasty shot that I too thought was on for a sure 6.5-7, bombed though. 
Conversely my shot for the Elements challenge which I nearly didn't submit because I am not keen on it, is scoring 7.6. Go figure eh ;)
I think simply the best image will win - stock or not stock. |
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02/16/2004 10:13:44 AM · #3 |
I think maybe the reason it didn't do too great was composition related.. I think it had a lot going for it, but it doesn't look very well balanced to me. I'm not very keen on the tilting of the plate. Maybe I would dislike 'stock' shots like that too, but it didn't work for me.. I'm not saying it was only worth a 5.1 though..
I only quickly glanced over the SDOF shots, but this was one of my favs, Jon.. |
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02/16/2004 10:39:11 AM · #4 |
I didn't get to that one. I think you did an excellent job on the "styling" part. Everything looks coordinated and the dof is exactly what is popular in books and magazines. Your lighting lends interest to the photo. Your focus is ok for the type shot you were doing. Were you trying to sell the pie or the ice cream? If it was the pie, maybe the focus should have been on the front.
The issues I would have had a problem with are the tilt, the view of the pie and the lack of silverware. The tilt is going away from the viewer, giving a "back off" type of impression. No silverware suggests no one is ejoying the beautiful pie. I would have liked the pie placed so I could maybe see the front better. I'm not really sure about that last one.
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02/16/2004 10:45:04 AM · #5 |
I voted your French Apple Pie a 7. Great shot. The reason I didn't vote it higher was because of the cinn. sticks? in the foreground. Seemed too blurred (even for sdof) and was distracting to me as I spent some time trying to figure it out. The ice cream looks real and I remember thinking you must have been able to get the shot you wanted right off or else you ate alot of props because there's no melting. I also liked the apples with slices in the background. Showed a conscientious set-up.
I think it should have scored higher.
BTW, I really like the dof and set-up on your entry for the recipe challenge.
Great shot...great Mom!
adding...I prefer the tilted to the right look. Flows better for viewing.
Message edited by author 2004-02-16 10:46:59. |
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02/16/2004 11:39:02 AM · #6 |
I think the tilt hurt the final score -- even if it's common in food shots, voters here don't see too many like that, and maybe it wasn't extreme enough to look truly deliberate. I certainly didn't notice any fake ice cream!
I thought my entry was pretty "stock-like" too, for a change. Almost straight from the camera, and I (thought I had somehow) nailed the limited DOF (a near-miracle with my camera), but it just seemed to disappear into the lower third of the pack.
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02/16/2004 12:03:47 PM · #7 |
A couple of things occur to me reading what you said
1/ you put a whole lot of (non-obvious) effort in to this - the fake ice-cream etc. This may mean you place more value on what to you was a really technically excellent shot that to many looks like some ice cream on a piece of pie (just trying to put it in context). This may lead you to attribute a lot of things that we just can't see to the shot.
2/ It is the first time you've tried anything like this. I've often found that the first few times I try something I'm amazed by how good the results are, but often that comes from a fairly superficial understanding of the subject. The first time last year when I did painting with light I thought it was jaw-droppingly wonderful. It wasn't until a year later of refining my technique doing it that I managed to knock out 'Fantasia' in 15 minutes and get a ribbon.
Its the same with the flower & butterfly photography I've been doing for the last year. In the beginning, I loved the shots I did in the first few months - couldn't imagine how they could be better. But over the last year I've refined and improved my approach to these subjects and actually feel I'm doing something interesting with them.
All this is a long way about saying I don't know that you can expect to do something on a par with what you see from people who have been doing food styling for years, when you only spend a few days on a new type of photography. In many ways its the main failing I see for the challenge concept - it does encourage you to try new things, but I doubt there is any chance of getting good at a particular style of photography if you only try it for a week then forget about it. Certainly its doubtful that anything new or exciting is going to be produced, other than by luck from such a superficial treatment of a subject.
The challenges are a good way of helping you find new areas to explore - but to get good you need to build from there and work at it I think.
[yes I know I meandered off the particular topic of the apple pie and ice cream - sorry about that!]
Message edited by author 2004-02-16 12:05:36.
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02/16/2004 12:04:40 PM · #8 |
It seems like partof your reasoning that your photo should be good is common reasoning that doesn't hold up to much...."but i spent a LONG time on this shot and tried REALLY hard".. that doesn't make it good.
but not saying your shot ISN'T good.
I think i agree with what was said earlier, that it doesn't look deliberate enough to look 'professional stock'. for example. the entire pie isn't in focus. the focus starts to disapear on the top of the ice cream. There is a large amount of crumbs on the plate, which seem out of place, and the pie is falling apart (on the tip) which wouldn't happen if it was in a recipe book or catalogue. Perhaps the angle could use a little tweeking.. so you could see the top a bit... i dunno these are just some thoughts.
i gave you a 5
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02/16/2004 02:14:21 PM · #9 |
I'm not saying that because I spent the time that I did on the shot that that should be the reason it scored higher -- definitely not. That was just one of the reasons why I felt the need to start my own personal rant about the voting this time (something I've never done before). Had I knocked out this shot in 10 minutes and it scored the same way (kinda like my "My Shadows" entry, which took almost time or effort), I wouldn't be so "ranting".
I'm also not saying that my entry should have ribboned, or anything like that. Just that I felt it deserved better than the 5.387 it received. I mean the average score in the challenge was 5.468! I guess I'm just having a hard time with the fact that a shot like this would be considered a "below average" submission for the Shallow DOF challenge.
Gordon, your point is well-taken. I'm not saying that I could turn around and sell this shot to a stock agency or have it published in some cookbook. Or that I'm all the sudden a "food stylist". The impetus behind my choice of subject was simply the fact that this type of shallow DOF photography is very commonly used in food shots, so I just thought it would be a good "fit" for this challenge...
P.S. The "crumbs" around the pie were intentional; it is part of the toppping, which consists of flour, butter and brown sugar.
Message edited by author 2004-02-16 14:20:59. |
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02/16/2004 02:26:36 PM · #10 |
I think a lot of people dislike shallow DoF, shallow DoF challenge or not.
So they vote accordingly. The overall scores were pretty low too.
You can lead a horse to water...
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02/16/2004 04:45:56 PM · #11 |
Two things bothered me about your entry:
1) The tilt which you've already said you did on purpose. I think if you are going to tilt the shot then tilt it MORE because as is, it looks like a mistake rather then on purpose.
2) The shallow dof looked like you used Blur on it... If you notice, the top of the ice cream is out of focus as well as some other areas of the subject that make the whole thing look like you used Blur to maybe make the background more obscured. If you don't mask it perfectly you'll get this effect. I'm not sure if that's what you did but when voting I thought that was the case. |
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02/16/2004 04:53:53 PM · #12 |
The photo was pretty much direct-from-camera, except that I cropped to 1.25:1 and cloned out some "apple debris" on the back of the plate that I didn't notice until a couple shots later.
So the "blurriness" that you are seeing is a result of the extremely shallow DOF that you get when shooting the Canon 50mm lens wide-open at f/1.4, not any photoshop editing. It is unfortunate if people felt that the shallow DOF was achieved via filters/editing rather than in-camera.
Message edited by author 2004-02-16 16:58:33. |
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02/16/2004 05:03:26 PM · #13 |
Originally posted by EddyG:
So the "blurriness" that you are seeing is a result of the extremely shallow DOF that you get when shooting the Canon 50mm lens wide-open at f/1.4, not any photoshop editing. It is unfortunate if people felt that the shallow DOF was achieved via filters/editing rather than in-camera. |
You know, now that I look at it again, you can see that the "bad blur" on the subject is consistent with a very shallow DOF. Amazing I wish my camera could do this. :) Just didn't work for this subject however. |
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02/16/2004 05:11:08 PM · #14 |
| left comment on the photo. |
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02/16/2004 05:48:47 PM · #15 |
Originally posted by Gordon:
...You can lead a horse to water... |
...but you can't see him drink.
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02/16/2004 08:26:22 PM · #16 |
You damn ranters! Did I hear someone say something over a 6 bombed?! Hahaha. I'm generally pleased if I like the photo and it manages to break 4.5 :)
Oh, about the photo in question. I would have given it a 6. I agree mainly with the cinammon stick problem, that's what really threw my eye off. I sort of liked the tilt but think it might have been slightly over done, but a good idea nonetheless.
Oh, and the shallow DOF did look manipulated to me too. I am overwhelmed by the concept of f/1.4 so I couldn't comrehend it with my miniscule mind. My submission, of course, was lacking in DOF, so maybe I was just jealous.
Overall, I think it was a fine photograph and quite obviously an excellent learning experience for you. |
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