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DPChallenge Forums >> Current Challenge >> Master's Free Study 1 - Cool!
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09/03/2004 08:01:54 PM · #201
Originally posted by frisca:

bob-- where is the "challenge" if people just enter the sorts of shots they are good at in a free study, which is always ongoing because they have one each month and so aren't extending themselves in any way? Its a point that's been made before, but I think its very important; the challenge part of this site is integral to its originality and purpose.

Well said.
This is one of the gems here. It extends everyone's eye and gets
out and about in an effort to expand their creativity and talents.
09/03/2004 08:03:10 PM · #202
Originally posted by Natator:

However, I am very disappointed as this seems to be in place of a month long September challenge, as has been the pattern for the last year.


Langdon's post in this thread says that he just forgot to schedule the September free study. The current free study is not intended to be a replacement.
09/03/2004 08:03:44 PM · #203
Originally posted by frisca:



edit: I really shouldn't have posted my thought here because it just an extension of my train of thought from the other month long FS thread (the latest one anyway). I think that what is needed is a reasoned response to the suggestion, whatever the decision is on it.


Well, I think the pros and cons that me and Konador have been bouncing back and forth in this thread are the best communicated list of reasons for and against I've seen in a forum thread about this for a while. Certainly, Konador's list against is more lucid than any I've seen in any other thread.
09/03/2004 08:08:48 PM · #204
I am disappointed that members are missing the September Free Study. But nothing says there won't be an October Free study.
I am sure the masters free study will produce some spectacular images. Which I will eoy viewing & voting on.
For all the people saying how much we learn by looking, I vehemently disagree. We learn by doing, I can study Graphic Funk's ( not picking on just an example) work for days & get ideas. But I only get better by doing, not watching.
That was my primary reason for becoming a member to have the opportunity to do more challenges & stop just looking at 1/2 of them wondering how my shot may fare. BTW the answer is not to well, but I have had steady improvement this month. The critiques I receive have helped me refine my shots. I personally believe more challenges would get more entries, more voting, more prints sold, not sure about commenting though. More challenges would likely drop comments down, the time factor would definitely contribute.
09/03/2004 08:10:37 PM · #205
Originally posted by Konador:


Langdon's post in this thread says that he just forgot to schedule the September free study. The current free study is not intended to be a replacement.


Ok cool, that must have been in the section I drifted off in ;)

Then put my vote down as "cool for the Master's challenge, can't wait for the free study one when it next appears (hopefully not 3 months off).
09/03/2004 08:12:38 PM · #206
Originally posted by arpita:

Originally posted by Artyste:


*sniff*.. I WANT to go photographing.. but it's been raining non-stop here for a week and a half.. and IT'S GETTING SO FRUSTRATING :)
The forums are my only friend.

(ack! That's sad.. I need to get out.. even if it is in the rain.. where's my umbrella?)

Make abstracts and still life pictures at home :)


Hehe.. I have been doing that for the last week, but mostly for the backlighting challenge. also, I don't have much for lighting.. yet. But! Glory me! The sun came out today and I've been traipsing.
Yay!
09/03/2004 08:18:51 PM · #207
I think this is a great idea. It's a great learning opportunity for us up and coming masters. All the photos entered will be of the quality we strive for side by side. It's going to help me no end and give me a reference for challenges to come. Thanks guys and good luck masters :)
09/03/2004 08:25:24 PM · #208
Originally posted by BradP:

With all this "bickering" a very important point has been lost:

Many members, paying or not, can often feel like "Why should
I compete. I never will stand a chance against members that
are so obviously great at photography".

I almost felt that way once, but it made me dig deeper and
renew my passion to excel in this hobby. I took my lumps
and was resilient. Here is a chance for the "Best of the Best"
to compete against one another. Skill levels leveled out a bit.

A similar challenge should be allowed some time in the future
for those that haven't earned a ribbon yet.
Kind of a varsity vs. varsity, JV vs. JV competition. The Varsity
just had the honors of going first.

Relax all, it's not like cash or prizes are being taken away
from you. There are plenty of sites out there for those rewards.


One of the few voices of reason in this entire thread :)
I think what it comes down to is.. if you aren't winning ribbons, and *that* is what is the most important thing to you.. then, you have to start evaluating yourself and your own photography and what it means to give something that appeals to the greatest common denominator, and act accordingly. This is what I'll be striving to do, and have been trying to do since joining. If someone like *myself* can eventually learn to follow trends and the appeals of the voting populace, heck, anyone can.

Let's hope that I eventually *can* :)

I look forward to every new challenge and the opportunity to grow. And if there's one or two extra challenges for people that, IMHO, have earned the right to compete in it.. so be it. I still have two challenges a week to keep me busy and improving.
09/03/2004 08:31:10 PM · #209
I don't have time to read this entire thread. And yes, I have no ribbons. I wouldn't have submitted to this challenge anyway as I haven't been submitting in quite a while.

However, I think this is a really bad idea for DPChallenge. Really pisses me off that I am a paying member of this site and can not participate in a challenge. This is one of the most idiotic ideas I have seen. Let's let all of the masters compete against each other. That's what they do every time they enter a challenge anyway, duhhhh!!! That's just stupid. What are the ribbon winners worried about that they have to have a challenge like this? That someone that has no ribbons and isn't considered a master will take on of the ribbons? Duhh!!! Bad idea!!! Pisses me off and puts a really bad taste in my mouth. I am a member of this site simply because I like supporting a great site and I like the people here. But if you start excluding me and others who should all be viewed as equals differently, that is really wrong. Now we have different class of people here? So all of you folks out there without the ribbons who are members, how does it feel to be discriminated against and Sh*% on? Stinks doesn't it? If challenges like this continue I will be rethinking my membership next time it is time to renew. I don't like sites that discriminate against it's paying members and exclude them from things. I guess I'll go sit in the back of the bus now!
09/03/2004 08:35:16 PM · #210
This thread is hard to keep up with.

I'm going to follow GeneralE's lead and wait for a while before I decide whether I think this was a good idea or not.

The one thing that keeps coming to me as I read thru all these posts is the depth of feeling it has caused. I see that many good people who contribute a lot to the site have have their feelings hurt twice- firstly by being given the impression that, by a certain measure, they are not good enough to enter a particular challenge; and secondly, by being called whiners and talked down to here for expressing their honest reactions. I hate to see anything that causes such hard feelings, and especially hate to see the hurt trivialized. This is obviously an issue that is very difficult for those included in the so-called Masters' group to understand from the viewpoint of those excluded from that group. And likewise for the vice-versa. Some are trying harder than others to reach that understanding.

The presentation of this experiment certainly could have been handled better. Some discussion in the forums prior to it's posting could have softened the blow. Briefing the SC would have perhaps enabled them to answer questions better.

That said I want to thank Langdon for perceiving how deeply divided the expressions here had become and stepping in to help calm the waters. All humans make mistakes, or omit things, or forget to do things, but it is how someone corrects their errors that should be held as the lasting impression.

That's all for now but I'm going to post an idea in the Challenge Suggestions forum soon.

09/03/2004 08:35:23 PM · #211
I think this is a great idea. I can't wait to see the results and vote. There are some really wonderful ribbon-winners on the site. However, I think the rules should allow anyone who has ONE ribbon or more. Limiting it to people with three ribbons or more is really rotten. Sadly, I don't have a ribbon so my two cents are unbiased. :)

Cheers!
09/03/2004 08:37:08 PM · #212
Originally posted by Konador:

Originally posted by Natator:

However, I am very disappointed as this seems to be in place of a month long September challenge, as has been the pattern for the last year.


Langdon's post in this thread says that he just forgot to schedule the September free study. The current free study is not intended to be a replacement.


So why doesn't he implement the September free study now? It's only a couple of days late.
09/03/2004 08:39:48 PM · #213
Originally posted by wackybill:

If challenges like this continue I will be rethinking my membership next time it is time to renew. I don't like sites that discriminate against it's paying members and exclude them from things. I guess I'll go sit in the back of the bus now!

If it means that much or makes that big of a difference to you,
you can take my spot in the challenge. Some of my qualifications
to participate were luck anyway....
09/03/2004 08:41:01 PM · #214
Originally posted by Artyste:

Originally posted by Konador:

Originally posted by Natator:

However, I am very disappointed as this seems to be in place of a month long September challenge, as has been the pattern for the last year.


Langdon's post in this thread says that he just forgot to schedule the September free study. The current free study is not intended to be a replacement.


So why doesn't he implement the September free study now? It's only a couple of days late.


I think a better idea would be to do away with this whole upper class bit and make the existing challenge open to everyone. I hate segregation and think this is not the place for it. What next? An almost master challenge? This is completely stupid!!!
09/03/2004 08:43:38 PM · #215
Originally posted by BradP:

Originally posted by wackybill:

If challenges like this continue I will be rethinking my membership next time it is time to renew. I don't like sites that discriminate against it's paying members and exclude them from things. I guess I'll go sit in the back of the bus now!

If it means that much or makes that big of a difference to you,
you can take my spot in the challenge. Some of my qualifications
to participate were luck anyway....


I don't want to participate and the only thing that matters to me is that everyone be treated equal. Segrigation is NOT a good thing. Why start now??? Why here??? There is enough of this kind of thing in the world. People that come here and feel equal to everyone else because everyone her was treated equal with respect and such prior to this challenge now feel Sh*& on. At least I do...
09/03/2004 08:45:52 PM · #216
Originally posted by wackybill:



I think a better idea would be to do away with this whole upper class bit and make the existing challenge open to everyone. I hate segregation and think this is not the place for it. What next? An almost master challenge? This is completely stupid!!!


I'm sorry, but I just don't agree. I don't see it as "segregation" as much as an honest attempt to reward people who've done a good job. It might not have been implemented in the best of ways, but I can see around that. It would have been segregation if they'd stopped all the *other* challenges in order to hold this one.. but they haven't. Also, in all honesty, the ribbons don't mean a whole heck of a lot to me. Winning one would be great, but I can guarantee you that I'd have to start taking pictures *I* don't care to take in order to get to that point (given the current voting trends). I'll never stop striving to be *better* at the photographs I enjoy taking, and maybe a few challenges now and then will cater to that.. who knows.
However, I just can't sit around here and act the victim on this one. It doesn't help me, it doesn't help the site, and it doesn't help my photography.

Just my opinion.
09/03/2004 08:50:36 PM · #217
Originally posted by Artyste:

Originally posted by wackybill:



I think a better idea would be to do away with this whole upper class bit and make the existing challenge open to everyone. I hate segregation and think this is not the place for it. What next? An almost master challenge? This is completely stupid!!!


I'm sorry, but I just don't agree. I don't see it as "segregation" as much as an honest attempt to reward people who've done a good job. It might not have been implemented in the best of ways, but I can see around that. It would have been segregation if they'd stopped all the *other* challenges in order to hold this one.. but they haven't. Also, in all honesty, the ribbons don't mean a whole heck of a lot to me. Winning one would be great, but I can guarantee you that I'd have to start taking pictures *I* don't care to take in order to get to that point (given the current voting trends). I'll never stop striving to be *better* at the photographs I enjoy taking, and maybe a few challenges now and then will cater to that.. who knows.
However, I just can't sit around here and act the victim on this one. It doesn't help me, it doesn't help the site, and it doesn't help my photography.

Just my opinion.


What is the benefit to this? All of these same people would have also have gotten to compete against one another anyway had the challenge been open to everyone. The only thing that could possibly be different is that someone that doesn't already have ribbons can not win this challenge. That does not make sense to me.

And yes it does take place of another challenge. Until now all month long challenges were open to all members. This is not.

seg·re·ga·tion:
1. The act or process of segregating or the condition of being segregated.
2. The policy or practice of separating people of different races, classes, or ethnic groups, as in schools, housing, and public or commercial facilities, especially as a form of discrimination.
3. Genetics. The separation of paired alleles or homologous chromosomes, especially during meiosis, so that the members of each pair appear in different
09/03/2004 08:53:59 PM · #218
Originally posted by Artyste:

One of the few voices of reason in this entire thread :)

Thanks.

Now I am going to stick my neck out a little (actually a lot) and
go against my better judgement and speak my mind without being PC, full knowing it's gonna' tick some of you off:

1) If any of you don't like the challenge: Don't participate
2) If you don't like the site: Leave and start your own.
3) If you don't like the rules: Make a recommendation, but don't bicker over someone else's site and their rules.
4) If you don't like someone's viewpoint: Remember it's their viewpoint and not everyone thinks the same. Be nice when you start critisizing and take care to not start any name calling or arguing.
5) Finally: Sit back, go with the flow, do your best and make this place a fun and educational place to be. It isn't YOUR site, it isn't YOUR rules, but our collective energy will go far to making it better place to be a part of.
09/03/2004 09:15:19 PM · #219
Originally posted by wackybill:



What is the benefit to this? All of these same people would have also have gotten to compete against one another anyway had the challenge been open to everyone. The only thing that could possibly be different is that someone that doesn't already have ribbons can not win this challenge. That does not make sense to me.

And yes it does take place of another challenge. Until now all month long challenges were open to all members. This is not.

How many times does it have to be said that the omission of the regular free study was an oversight? I'm not going to critize that until we get official word on when or if it's permanently cancelled.

Originally posted by wackybill:

seg·re·ga·tion:
1. The act or process of segregating or the condition of being segregated.
2. The policy or practice of separating people of different races, classes, or ethnic groups, as in schools, housing, and public or commercial facilities, especially as a form of discrimination.
3. Genetics. The separation of paired alleles or homologous chromosomes, especially during meiosis, so that the members of each pair appear in different


Sorry, none of those descriptions match what's going on here A certain group of people are being rewarded, and nobody is being *discriminated* against.. you want the reward? Then start doing better.

However, this is my final word on the matter. I can't convince you if you've made up your mind. You're not happy with it, fine, but as BradP states.. nothing is keeping you here by force. So, I guess it all comes down to how much you really enjoy being here opposed to one matter that upsets you.

Message edited by author 2004-09-03 21:16:02.
09/03/2004 09:17:58 PM · #220
Originally posted by Imagineer:


Give someone a reward, they want extra reward - I think that's how it goes! Until now there wasn't a single so called 'Masters'' challenge. :P


So what! What is wrong with this? If the people with no ribbon were to have a challenge that excluded the ribboners, I sure wouldn't through a fit about it.

I think it would be a good idea for them to have a challenge to themselves, but than you would get a few complaining about that I bet.

to Drew and Langdon. You both rock and keep my life busy with my fun hobby. Thanks! (hug)
09/03/2004 09:22:34 PM · #221
Why does everyone always start saying you can leave if you want. Do you think I'm an idiot and I don't know that. Just because I happen to disagree doesn't mean that I'm packing up and leaving. Maybe not support as a paying member in the future but that is to be seen. Actually I think it's kind of rude and I don't appreciate it.

Thanks for the insightful conversation though. I really enjoyed it!

Quite frankly this just caught me on a pissed off bad day anyway and I'm venting.
09/03/2004 09:23:44 PM · #222
Originally posted by Sonifo:

Originally posted by Imagineer:


Give someone a reward, they want extra reward - I think that's how it goes! Until now there wasn't a single so called 'Masters'' challenge. :P


So what! What is wrong with this? If the people with no ribbon were to have a challenge that excluded the ribboners, I sure wouldn't through a fit about it.

I think it would be a good idea for them to have a challenge to themselves, but than you would get a few complaining about that I bet.

to Drew and Langdon. You both rock and keep my life busy with my fun hobby. Thanks! (hug)


Why do we now have to be separated?
09/03/2004 09:30:14 PM · #223
Originally posted by wackybill:



Why do we now have to be separated?


Why not?

I can remember awhile back folks (including me) wanted to have challenges that met there level of photography skills.

Some of the ones that have a hard time ribboning might like this because they get a chance at a ribbon.
09/03/2004 09:30:42 PM · #224
This thread is nothing short of amazing. Having burned out my eyeballs reading all this angst I'm going out to take pictures in the morning of a beautiful creek which winds through rolling hills in the nearby park. Last time I was in there I saw four hawks waiting out a storm in a dead tree, but only had a short lens. Now I have a 300mm, so hopefully I can find 'em again. What was I saying? Oh yeah...

I think if more people tripped their shutters instead of the keyboards this thread would have half as many pages, and the Masters challenge would twice as many competitors. C'mon people - step away from the keyboards and go take pictures.
09/03/2004 09:32:39 PM · #225
One good thing about this challenge, even the masters will get a chance to finish last.
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