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10/16/2008 05:22:00 PM · #101 |
Originally posted by LoudDog:
Originally posted by Spazmo99:
Originally posted by LoudDog:
Originally posted by Spazmo99:
It does make perfect sense. The people in your state, or any state for that matter, that are receiving Medicaid, are indeed stupid and ignorant if they support McCain. His policies and programs will benefit the rich at the expense of the poor. |
By that ideology, anyone in a household making more then $110,000 per year that votes for Obama is stupid and ignorant too because under McCain they will get a bigger tax break.
//www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/story/2008/06/09/ST2008060900950.html |
Perhaps, but it's not just about taxes, is it?
Pretty much all of McCain's policies and programs give the poor the shaft. |
And pretty much all of Obama's policies and programs give families that make over $110K the shaft.
The election isn't just about medicade either. My point, you can't call a group of people stupid because they picked the candidate they thought was best for the country rather then the candidate that would be best for them personally.
It goes both ways... |
They don't give them the shaft, just less of a tax CUT than Obama. You have to make a lot more than $110K to see your taxes go up under Obama's plan.
I can call them stupid when they turn around and bitch that the policies of those they elected are screwing them.
If some of the poor feel they should take one in the keister so the rich can get by easier, they shouldn't complain when they can't afford to feed their family or take their kids to the doctor because they chose to pay more so that the rich could get even richer.
Message edited by author 2008-10-16 17:24:07. |
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10/16/2008 05:58:07 PM · #102 |
Originally posted by Spazmo99:
They don't give them the shaft, just less of a tax CUT than Obama. You have to make a lot more than $110K to see your taxes go up under Obama's plan. |
Personally i think they are both exagerating their tax plans, as they do everything else. So if you make both of their plans a little worse it starts to suck being over that 110 mark. And I aspire to be over that 250 mark someday, so am I dumb to vote for something that favors where i want to be?
Originally posted by Spazmo99:
I can call them stupid when they turn around and bitch that the policies of those they elected are screwing them. |
I'll be right alongside you calling them stupid.
Just my $.02 but this time around our choices are even worse then bush/kerry and bush/gore before that. I don't want to vote for either. I honestly may not vote, either way i think I'll end up complaining and have to call myself stupid!!! |
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10/16/2008 06:12:19 PM · #103 |
Originally posted by LoudDog:
Originally posted by Spazmo99:
They don't give them the shaft, just less of a tax CUT than Obama. You have to make a lot more than $110K to see your taxes go up under Obama's plan. |
Personally i think they are both exagerating their tax plans, as they do everything else. So if you make both of their plans a little worse it starts to suck being over that 110 mark. And I aspire to be over that 250 mark someday, so am I dumb to vote for something that favors where i want to be?
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Your stupidity would depend on how realistic your aspirations are within the next 4 years.
I aspire to be Warren Buffet rich. Unfortunately, I don't think it's going to work out that way, barring the off chance I win the Lotto. So it would benefit me much less to vote for McCain.
That's not to mention getting bent over on health care which is pretty much my number one hot button issue. A $5k tax credit simply isn't going to allow you to buy much of a policy unless you and your family are in prime health.
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10/16/2008 06:28:04 PM · #104 |
Originally posted by Spazmo99:
Your stupidity would depend on how realistic your aspirations are within the next 4 years. |
Well if I vote for Obama I would have less motivation to try harder to get there!
Doesn't matter anyway, my state (Washington) isn't voting for anyone whose name doesn't start with O. Neither are advertising here much.
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10/16/2008 07:25:05 PM · #105 |
Originally posted by GeneralE:
Originally posted by Phil:
Originally posted by scalvert:
C'mon guys! Civil discussion? |
I have no problem with that but why was there not a cease request until someone retaliated his ignorant bs? |
Why did you need to be asked? |
Is that rhetorical and you're just jumping in like an e-Rambo or are you seeking a reply? |
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10/16/2008 07:54:22 PM · #106 |
Originally posted by LoudDog:
Well if I vote for Obama I would have less motivation to try harder to get there! |
Can I assume this is a personal failing, and not a generalized statement about your belief that Democrats are going to milk the system?
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10/16/2008 09:51:56 PM · #107 |
Originally posted by citymars:
Originally posted by LoudDog:
Well if I vote for Obama I would have less motivation to try harder to get there! |
Can I assume this is a personal failing, and not a generalized statement about your belief that Democrats are going to milk the system? |
no |
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10/16/2008 10:13:34 PM · #108 |
Originally posted by Phil:
Is that rhetorical and you're just jumping in like an e-Rambo or are you seeking a reply? |
I will admit that each interpretation is entitled to a certain degree of validity ... partly the reply wass intended to make clear that I know that you know the rules about engaging in baiting and personal attacks, and should not need one (or several) reminders from SC members to obey those rules, and I phrased it in a way which was both concise and likely to be a bit irritating, so as to convey my own irritation at having to deal with it.
I am anti-authoritarian by nature and I far prefer that people excercise self-discipline, rather than making me take action ... |
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10/18/2008 03:36:26 AM · #109 |
If any of you think that taxes will not go up for everyone in the next 8 years, whomever you choose, then I say ha ha ha.... Your country is in no state to cut taxes or even remain at the current level.
Well, maybe they will cut taxes, but in that case they will raise the national debt. Which is in fact postponed tax for children to pay.
So any of you here who says "I want a tax cut" is essentially telling his sweet little children that said children will have to work their bottom off for papa and mama when they are in their twenties or thirties, because papa and mama and all the other papas and mamas don't want to take their responsibility now.
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10/18/2008 03:57:27 AM · #110 |
There is a third option.
There seems to be a mentality that there are only two options. 1) Raise taxes, 2) Increase national debt.
What about 3) Reduce spending?
People are already taxed, if the amount of government spending does not exceed the national tax then debt will not be increased. If taxes exceed government spending then debt will be reduced. Maybe by only a penny a year, but it will be reduced nonetheless.
Another related mentality seems to be that adding programs, say universal health care will either raise taxes, or raise debt. Again, it is possible to reduce spending in other areas to buffer the new cost. Whether or not this is feasible or will cover the entire cost is besides the point, but I really don't the government needs to spend $40,000 on a screw driver to ensure it is safe for use, let alone pointless wars and playing babysitter for half the world. Billion dollar bailouts used to go on vacations costing more than the average yearly wage, etc.
But hey, what do I know?
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10/18/2008 05:34:09 AM · #111 |
Taxes, healthcare, energy, all make great platforms, but all in all have less to do with any future president than it will with congress. By the time congress is done with these issues it will look a lot like a filet mignon, sure it is a nice piece of meat, but what is that holding it all together.
When I go to the booth, I will have two things in mind, one being the Commander and Chief holds a lot of sway on our future with this conflict in Iraq, a situation that the majority of peoples on both sides wish to conclude. Second, although having the best of medical care, looking at McCain I donĂ¢€™t exactly see the epitome of health, and personally do not believe Palin is even remotely qualified to step in if necessary.
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10/19/2008 01:03:14 AM · #112 |
| Anybody catch Sarah Palin on SNL? They were seriously insulting to her... it was supposed to be funny but she didn't really look like she was in the spirit of things exactly to me. It was more like her standing there and getting dogged and being unable to do much about it. Just my take on it. I personally thought it was hilarious. |
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10/19/2008 01:16:47 AM · #113 |
Just an aside - sales tax in Germany is 19%. They pay income tax as well.
Carry on. |
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10/19/2008 02:02:35 AM · #114 |
I laughed and appreciate her being there. People know she exists as opposed to that other guy .. ummm .. I forget his name!
Originally posted by dponlyme:
Anybody catch Sarah Palin on SNL? They were seriously insulting to her... it was supposed to be funny but she didn't really look like she was in the spirit of things exactly to me. It was more like her standing there and getting dogged and being unable to do much about it. Just my take on it. I personally thought it was hilarious. |
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10/19/2008 05:03:23 AM · #115 |
Originally posted by Melethia:
Just an aside - sales tax in Germany is 19%. They pay income tax as well.
Carry on. |
How much income tax in Germany?
At the moment we pay a top rate of 52% (that is for income over 52000 euro, over the part below that a part 40% and 35%). Yes I am quite happy paying and seeing what I get back for it.
Sales tax of 19%.
Tax on inhereted money 60%.
Tax on dividend 25%.
And what do you pay in the US?
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10/19/2008 07:57:10 AM · #116 |
Not sure what it is in Germany, Sander. I'd have to ask one of my co-workers who is a resident here.
In the US, sales tax of 7.75% is considered high. :-) |
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10/19/2008 08:42:18 AM · #117 |
Originally posted by Katmystiry:
I laughed and appreciate her being there. People know she exists as opposed to that other guy .. ummm .. I forget his name! |
McCain.
An interesting poll this morning that kind of blows the Republican strategy of saying the polls are showing liberal bias- From Karl Rove (the man himself) & Co. Electoral vote count Obama 313 McCain 171 54 tossup. Their polling even shows North Dakota (a republican stronghold since....well....forever really) leaning Obama with a 3% lead- with the margin of error its considered a statistical dead heat, but ten days ago McCain was up by 6% in North Dakota according to the same source. Indiana and West Virginia are still listed for McCain, but have shown 3 and 4% swings towards Obama, they are expected to be considered toss ups by the end of the month. An interesting side note- even Arizona (which is still solidly towards McCain at an 8% margin) has begun to trend towards Obama in the polls (a 3% swing). |
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10/19/2008 09:24:55 AM · #118 |
Originally posted by vxpra:
An interesting poll this morning that kind of blows the Republican strategy of saying the polls are showing liberal bias- From Karl Rove (the man himself) & Co. Electoral vote count Obama 313 McCain 171 54 tossup. |
If you're a junkie for this stuff like I am you might enjoy some of the electoral vote sites:
www.electoral-vote.com/
(esp. good graph of EVs and scroll down for the graph that omits states with less than 5% lead)
www.fivethirtyeight.com/
www.270towin.com
www.electionprojection.com
Looking at these sites, I don't see how Obama can lose this without making an extremely stupid move.
ETA: MSNBC's electoral map gives you the option of clicking on states to look at various scenarios (just click on "Make Your Predictions)
Message edited by author 2008-10-19 09:29:58. |
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10/19/2008 09:47:33 AM · #119 |
Originally posted by JMart:
Originally posted by vxpra:
An interesting poll this morning that kind of blows the Republican strategy of saying the polls are showing liberal bias- From Karl Rove (the man himself) & Co. Electoral vote count Obama 313 McCain 171 54 tossup. |
If you're a junkie for this stuff like I am you might enjoy some of the electoral vote sites:
www.electoral-vote.com/
(esp. good graph of EVs and scroll down for the graph that omits states with less than 5% lead)
www.fivethirtyeight.com/
www.270towin.com
www.electionprojection.com
Looking at these sites, I don't see how Obama can lose this without making an extremely stupid move.
ETA: MSNBC's electoral map gives you the option of clicking on states to look at various scenarios (just click on "Make Your Predictions) |
Sampling those graphs I think we can say it's going to be a landslide, not a close election. States like Georgia almost being tied in polls is astonishing. North Dakota too. Indiana. Battleground states are turning into Democrat states one by one. lol If the election were being held in Jan. I think the whole country would vote blue. I already feel safer. ;]
Like you say John, it's going to take a major gaffe to change what is going to happen on Nov. 4th. |
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10/19/2008 09:50:16 AM · #120 |
Originally posted by Melethia:
Just an aside - sales tax in Germany is 19%. They pay income tax as well.
Carry on. |
And this despite the fact that Germany's government is conservative. Well, centre right. In a coalition government with two other parties. Including the left.
*sigh...* Why can't Canada have representative government? |
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10/19/2008 09:53:06 AM · #121 |
| More good stuff...Colin Powell endorses Obama. |
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10/19/2008 10:01:28 AM · #122 |
Originally posted by RKT:
More good stuff...Colin Powell endorses Obama. |
He finally admitted it. Good for him and good for the US. Ex Secretary of State voting against his party has got to be big news, even if it was expected for a while now. |
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10/19/2008 10:17:10 AM · #123 |
Originally posted by Jac:
Originally posted by RKT:
More good stuff...Colin Powell endorses Obama. |
He finally admitted it. Good for him and good for the US. Ex Secretary of State voting against his party has got to be big news, even if it was expected for a while now. |
More good news for Obama, but for me this has a bigger impact on rehabilitating Powell's tarnished image than helping Obama all that much. Still, I'll never forgive the man for his role in misleading us into the Iraq war. I don't know if it would have gone any differently without Powell's cooperation, but he really went 100% to put his good reputation on the line to help unnecessarily cost us way too many lives at way too high a financial cost.
Given our economic situation which is severely compounded now by the many hundreds of billions we have spent on the Iraq war, I'd say Osama Bin Laden got more than he bargained for out of 9/11. I bet that bastard is still laughing his ass off at us getting entrenched in Iraq even though it had nothing whatsoever to do with 9/11. Talk about helping the terrorists win :( Yea, thanks Colin. |
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10/19/2008 11:07:03 AM · #124 |
Originally posted by JMart:
Still, I'll never forgive the man for his role in misleading us into the Iraq war. I don't know if it would have gone any differently without Powell's cooperation |
Don't worry, I'm sure Bush/Cheney/Rumsfeld/Rice would have worked their way around it.
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10/19/2008 11:16:21 AM · #125 |
True but I think the blame for the Iraq mess will historically be put onto the Republicans and Bush. He was just doing his job, although quite convincingly, and any other person would have done the same in that position. He must have had tremendous pressure on his shoulders to go out and convince the world that the evidence he was pointing to on maps during the news conferences were real and I'm pretty sure he believed the information as much as you and I. He must feel like he was tricked as much as any one of us. I don't read biographies of politicians much but his I would find an interesting read I'm sure.
eta
I was responding to JMart's post, although I agree with JH.
Message edited by author 2008-10-19 11:17:31. |
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