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10/23/2008 09:46:17 PM · #226
Originally posted by dponlyme:

... I don't look the brainiest in that picture do I? No I don't have examples of his foreign policy 'leadership' necessarily but the man has been involved in government and knowledgeable about foreign policy for a long time. He has lived the history that Obama can only read about. I think that is a very important factor.

I will be voting for McCain for this reason primarily: National Security. Having said that, there is much to like about Obama. He has all the characteristics of someone who can lead effectively. Wonderful speaking skills, charisma, etc. are his greatest asset. Top that off with a very healthy dose of intelligence and you've got a person capable of persuading the American People to do and think just about anything. A lot of Americans are simply sheep and will follow the voice of 'The One' or 'that one'. Not saying that all Obama supporters are sheep but quite a lot of them are. Intelligent people will look beyond his charisma and see that his economic policies of wealth redistribution are not going to work in a capitalistic society. It will retard the economy and unemployment will increase proportionally. The people who get the 'tax cuts' won't spend the money or invest it because they won't feel secure that they will have a job or that they won't lose it. This in turn will lead to even fewer jobs as all of the money given in these 'tax cuts' will effectively be out of circulation. Everything just spirals down from there. Meanwhile the rich stay basically rich and there are even more people who are poor. At least they will have health insurance... until that becomes unsupportable due to the tax base diminishing.


1. how would you qualify his "involvement in government", as you put it?
2. in what areas of foreign policy has he proven to be knowledgeable?
3. Talking about sheep, there are very good statistics comparing the level of education of Republican voters with those who vote Democrat. Are you aware of them?
4. Examples of well-functioning capitalist economies within social-democracies abound, in Europe particularly. Are you aware of these?
5. I expected your final reasoning to arrive at exactly the opposite conclusion.

Message edited by author 2008-10-23 22:14:33.
10/23/2008 09:48:16 PM · #227
Originally posted by Prash:

Originally posted by Prash:

Originally posted by dponlyme:

I will reply as a whole to all who have derided me for my comments on the relative intelligence of the two presidential candidates. I will point out that if pure academic intelligence were the only factor I would vote for Obama. The problem is that it is not the only factor to consider. I think that John McCain has more than enough intelligence to be president of the United States. Is Obama MORE intelligent? Perhaps. Intelligence in itself however is not and cannot be the deciding factor unless one candidate is a moron. I honestly believe that I am as intelligent as Obama. I don't however believe I would make a good president. There are so many other factors that MUST weigh in to a choice in this pivotal matter. If intelligence were the key factor then we should want a scientist who is on the leading edge of research to be our president.. I don't think we do. As I tell to my daughter and son, it is not the one who is the smartest who always succeeds but it is the one who is more dedicated and has put in the groundwork to achieve success that most often has a better outcome. I think this holds true for the office of president of the United States as well. John McCain has put in the groundwork and has a lifetime of experience in the matters of government and foreign policy. Obama does not. Smart does not make up for experience IMO. You can be the smartest kid on the block but if you lack knowledge of a particular area you won't do well on the test. Biden assures us that there will be a test. I don't trust that Obama would not fail.


* Disclaimer: What follows is only my personal opinion. Nobody should get influenced with this. *

McCain thinks like and for the rich brats. Obama thinks from and for the grassroot. I dont think we need an experienced military leader who goes on aggression everytime he is challenged with a problem. Agreed experience does count. But not experience from teh armed forces. If you foresee US to be a war-based-capitalist society, true McCain would be a great president. I just see a different and slightly brighter future for us... away from overseas aggressions and narrowminded values.


And sorry I have to ask this since you claimed you are as intelligent as Obama. What is your profession? And this is an honest question. I am just curious as to what leads people to forget the fact that intelligence shows itself.


I have an accounting degree. I have worked as an accountant,computer programmer(self taught),Loan Officer, I have also worked in sales and ran a DJ service. Right now I'm working in the human resources field. I'm not a scientist but then neither is Obama. My resume might not stack up against Obamas but I have every belief that if I were given the chance I could have graduated from Harvard Law school and matched any academic credentials that he has. IMO there are quite a lot of people who post on this site in particular who could do the same judging from the intelligence of their posts. I am by no means above this crowd... and neither is Obama. What sets him apart is his charisma. He's got way more of that than I could ever muster.
10/23/2008 10:01:32 PM · #228
Originally posted by dponlyme:

No I don't have examples of his foreign policy 'leadership' necessarily but the man has been involved in government and knowledgeable about foreign policy for a long time. He has lived the history that Obama can only read about.

So has Fidel Castro. There's more to good foreign policy and government than just being "involved in it" for a long time.

Originally posted by dponlyme:

Intelligent people will look beyond his charisma and see that his economic policies of wealth redistribution are not going to work in a capitalistic society...

A certain Arizona senator disagrees with you. Graduated tax brackets aren't exactly a new idea in this country, and taking from the poor to give to the obscenely-rich doesn't strike me as a better idea.

Message edited by author 2008-10-23 22:06:05.
10/23/2008 10:09:56 PM · #229
Originally posted by dponlyme:

Originally posted by Prash:

Originally posted by Prash:

Originally posted by dponlyme:

I will reply as a whole to all who have derided me for my comments on the relative intelligence of the two presidential candidates. I will point out that if pure academic intelligence were the only factor I would vote for Obama. The problem is that it is not the only factor to consider. I think that John McCain has more than enough intelligence to be president of the United States. Is Obama MORE intelligent? Perhaps. Intelligence in itself however is not and cannot be the deciding factor unless one candidate is a moron. I honestly believe that I am as intelligent as Obama. I don't however believe I would make a good president. There are so many other factors that MUST weigh in to a choice in this pivotal matter. If intelligence were the key factor then we should want a scientist who is on the leading edge of research to be our president.. I don't think we do. As I tell to my daughter and son, it is not the one who is the smartest who always succeeds but it is the one who is more dedicated and has put in the groundwork to achieve success that most often has a better outcome. I think this holds true for the office of president of the United States as well. John McCain has put in the groundwork and has a lifetime of experience in the matters of government and foreign policy. Obama does not. Smart does not make up for experience IMO. You can be the smartest kid on the block but if you lack knowledge of a particular area you won't do well on the test. Biden assures us that there will be a test. I don't trust that Obama would not fail.


* Disclaimer: What follows is only my personal opinion. Nobody should get influenced with this. *

McCain thinks like and for the rich brats. Obama thinks from and for the grassroot. I dont think we need an experienced military leader who goes on aggression everytime he is challenged with a problem. Agreed experience does count. But not experience from teh armed forces. If you foresee US to be a war-based-capitalist society, true McCain would be a great president. I just see a different and slightly brighter future for us... away from overseas aggressions and narrowminded values.


And sorry I have to ask this since you claimed you are as intelligent as Obama. What is your profession? And this is an honest question. I am just curious as to what leads people to forget the fact that intelligence shows itself.


I have every belief that if I were given the chance I could have graduated from Harvard Law school and matched any academic credentials that he has.


Please do not take what I am about to say personally. I respect every bit of what you earned by yourself, and I respect you as a human being.

Now my questions:

- What chances did you not have that kept you from getting a Harvard or equivalent degree? Ok forget Harvard.. what kept you from getting a law degree lets say?

I hope you know how many foreign graduate students strive to come to US for higher education, and they achieve their goals in hardship. I have seen myself (firsthand) that if one really wants to study in a field, there a more than plenty opportunities like federal loans and scholarships and assistantships... most of which are reserved for American born citizens.

I am sorry but I dont buy the excuse that one is 'not given' opportunities and thats why they couldnt get the education they so badly wanted. I grew up poor.. and I mean by definition 'poor'.. and it took years of hardship and seemingly impossible hurdles to achieve all that I wanted academically. I am sure you did too. It just doesnt come across convincingly that one didnt have the opportunities and so they didnt goto a good school.

Message edited by author 2008-10-23 22:11:27.
10/23/2008 10:10:53 PM · #230
Originally posted by scalvert:

Originally posted by dponlyme:

No I don't have examples of his foreign policy 'leadership' necessarily but the man has been involved in government and knowledgeable about foreign policy for a long time. He has lived the history that Obama can only read about.

So has Fidel Castro. There's more to good foreign policy and government than just being "involved in it" for a long time.

Originally posted by dponlyme:

Intelligent people will look beyond his charisma and see that his economic policies of wealth redistribution are not going to work in a capitalistic society...

A certain Arizona senator disagrees with you. Graduated tax brackets aren't exactly a new idea in this country, and taking from the poor to give to the obscenely-rich doesn't strike me as a better idea.


First, it is absolutely ludicrous to compare John McCain to Fidel Castro. Can I then compare Obama to Hitler. He was a highly successful community organizer. Secondly I don't expect everyone to agree with my opinion on the economy... it would be strange if they did considering the hugely liberal population on this site. Your link didn't work btw. I'm not in favor of a flat tax either but arbitrarily deciding to redistribute wealth (not just tax the rich at a higher rate in order to pay for those things only the government can provide i.e. defense) is not good tax policy if you want your economy to grow.
10/23/2008 10:15:43 PM · #231
Originally posted by dponlyme:

First, it is absolutely ludicrous to compare John McCain to Fidel Castro. Can I then compare Obama to Hitler.

Way to miss the point. He wasn't comparing McCain to Castro, he was merely pointing out that, like McCain, Castro has administrative and foreign policy experience that can be measured in years, indicating that that in itself is no measure of good governance. Given your stated intelligence, I'm surprised you misconstrued that so severely.

Message edited by author 2008-10-23 22:16:33.
10/23/2008 10:17:52 PM · #232
Originally posted by dponlyme:

Originally posted by scalvert:

Originally posted by dponlyme:

No I don't have examples of his foreign policy 'leadership' necessarily but the man has been involved in government and knowledgeable about foreign policy for a long time. He has lived the history that Obama can only read about.

So has Fidel Castro. There's more to good foreign policy and government than just being "involved in it" for a long time.

Originally posted by dponlyme:

Intelligent people will look beyond his charisma and see that his economic policies of wealth redistribution are not going to work in a capitalistic society...

A certain Arizona senator disagrees with you. Graduated tax brackets aren't exactly a new idea in this country, and taking from the poor to give to the obscenely-rich doesn't strike me as a better idea.


First, it is absolutely ludicrous to compare John McCain to Fidel Castro. Can I then compare Obama to Hitler. He was a highly successful community organizer. Secondly I don't expect everyone to agree with my opinion on the economy... it would be strange if they did considering the hugely liberal population on this site. Your link didn't work btw. I'm not in favor of a flat tax either but arbitrarily deciding to redistribute wealth (not just tax the rich at a higher rate in order to pay for those things only the government can provide i.e. defense) is not good tax policy if you want your economy to grow.


I do not have a degree in economics, so please elaborate on how keeping taxes low for the riches and taxing the middle class more helps the economy grow?
10/23/2008 10:20:46 PM · #233
Originally posted by Prash:

Originally posted by dponlyme:

Originally posted by Prash:

Originally posted by Prash:

Originally posted by dponlyme:

I will reply as a whole to all who have derided me for my comments on the relative intelligence of the two presidential candidates. I will point out that if pure academic intelligence were the only factor I would vote for Obama. The problem is that it is not the only factor to consider. I think that John McCain has more than enough intelligence to be president of the United States. Is Obama MORE intelligent? Perhaps. Intelligence in itself however is not and cannot be the deciding factor unless one candidate is a moron. I honestly believe that I am as intelligent as Obama. I don't however believe I would make a good president. There are so many other factors that MUST weigh in to a choice in this pivotal matter. If intelligence were the key factor then we should want a scientist who is on the leading edge of research to be our president.. I don't think we do. As I tell to my daughter and son, it is not the one who is the smartest who always succeeds but it is the one who is more dedicated and has put in the groundwork to achieve success that most often has a better outcome. I think this holds true for the office of president of the United States as well. John McCain has put in the groundwork and has a lifetime of experience in the matters of government and foreign policy. Obama does not. Smart does not make up for experience IMO. You can be the smartest kid on the block but if you lack knowledge of a particular area you won't do well on the test. Biden assures us that there will be a test. I don't trust that Obama would not fail.


* Disclaimer: What follows is only my personal opinion. Nobody should get influenced with this. *

McCain thinks like and for the rich brats. Obama thinks from and for the grassroot. I dont think we need an experienced military leader who goes on aggression everytime he is challenged with a problem. Agreed experience does count. But not experience from teh armed forces. If you foresee US to be a war-based-capitalist society, true McCain would be a great president. I just see a different and slightly brighter future for us... away from overseas aggressions and narrowminded values.


And sorry I have to ask this since you claimed you are as intelligent as Obama. What is your profession? And this is an honest question. I am just curious as to what leads people to forget the fact that intelligence shows itself.


I have every belief that if I were given the chance I could have graduated from Harvard Law school and matched any academic credentials that he has.


Please do not take what I am about to say personally. I respect every bit of what you earned by yourself, and I respect you as a human being.

Now my questions:

- What chances did you not have that kept you from getting a Harvard or equivalent degree? Ok forget Harvard.. what kept you from getting a law degree lets say?

I hope you know how many foreign graduate students strive to come to US for higher education, and they achieve their goals in hardship. I have seen myself (firsthand) that if one really wants to study in a field, there a more than plenty opportunities like federal loans and scholarships and assistantships... most of which are reserved for American born citizens.

I am sorry but I dont buy the excuse that one is 'not given' opportunities and thats why they couldnt get the education they so badly wanted. I grew up poor.. and I mean by definition 'poor'.. and it took years of hardship and seemingly impossible hurdles to achieve all that I wanted academically. I am sure you did too. It just doesnt come across convincingly that one didnt have the opportunities and so they didnt goto a good school.


I agree. What the point is, though, is that if by whatever circumstance I had attended Harvard Law school I would have been intelligent enough to get my law degree.

10/23/2008 10:20:55 PM · #234
Originally posted by dponlyme:

Your link didn't work btw.

I fixed the link before you posted, but you had already included it in your quote.
10/23/2008 10:32:28 PM · #235
Originally posted by dponlyme:

if by whatever circumstance I had attended Harvard Law school I would have been intelligent enough to get my law degree.

Idle speculation of how you might fare aside, Obama didn't just "get a law degree" from Harvard. He finished with Magna Cum Laude honors, did so in spite of a humble background, and was elected the first black president of the Harvard Law Review in only his second year. Those aren't chances given, but opportunities earned. Contrast that with McCain, who got into a prestigious military academy on his family's influence and barely avoided being kicked out to finish near the bottom of his class: opportunities given and foolishly squandered.
10/23/2008 10:40:08 PM · #236
Originally posted by Louis:

Originally posted by dponlyme:

First, it is absolutely ludicrous to compare John McCain to Fidel Castro. Can I then compare Obama to Hitler.

Way to miss the point. He wasn't comparing McCain to Castro, he was merely pointing out that, like McCain, Castro has administrative and foreign policy experience that can be measured in years, indicating that that in itself is no measure of good governance. Given your stated intelligence, I'm surprised you misconstrued that so severely.


I misconstrued nothing. I'm surprised with your intelligence you do not recognize that he is 'comparing' the two by implying that their foreign policy experiences are somehow equatable. It should be a given that what we are discussing is US foreign policy and experience with that particular subject matter. Castro, in that regard, has no experience, Just as Obama has no experience in the type of community organizing that Hitler was involved in. Castro has been successful in his governance because he is still in power and that is the hallmark of his form of government: to remain in power and not to necessarily do what is best for the people of his nation. The U.S. is the polar opposite of this philosophy of government. John McCain has the experience in foreign policy as it relates to our form of government and Barak Obama does not.
10/23/2008 10:42:52 PM · #237
Originally posted by scalvert:

Originally posted by dponlyme:

if by whatever circumstance I had attended Harvard Law school I would have been intelligent enough to get my law degree.

Idle speculation of how you might fare aside, Obama didn't just "get a law degree" from Harvard. He finished with Magna Cum Laude honors, did so in spite of a humble background, and was elected the first black president of the Harvard Law Review in only his second year. Those aren't chances given, but opportunities earned. Contrast that with McCain, who got into a prestigious military academy on his family's influence and barely avoided being kicked out to finish near the bottom of his class: opportunities given and foolishly squandered.


Nicely put.

Now I really start to wonder which one comes first: intelligence.. or admission to a good school. Meaning that one is intelligent and so they get in a good school, or they get in good school and then become intelligent;-)

10/23/2008 10:44:19 PM · #238
Originally posted by scalvert:

Originally posted by dponlyme:

if by whatever circumstance I had attended Harvard Law school I would have been intelligent enough to get my law degree.

Idle speculation of how you might fare aside, Obama didn't just "get a law degree" from Harvard. He finished with Magna Cum Laude honors, did so in spite of a humble background, and was elected the first black president of the Harvard Law Review in only his second year. Those aren't chances given, but opportunities earned. Contrast that with McCain, who got into a prestigious military academy on his family's influence and barely avoided being kicked out to finish near the bottom of his class: opportunities given and foolishly squandered.


Granted. I take nothing away from Obama's accomplishments. It was my original point that merely having a high degree of intelligence isn't the only thing or even the most important thing to consider when picking a president. I stand firm to that position.
10/23/2008 10:46:22 PM · #239
Originally posted by dponlyme:

Originally posted by Louis:

Originally posted by dponlyme:

First, it is absolutely ludicrous to compare John McCain to Fidel Castro. Can I then compare Obama to Hitler.

Way to miss the point. He wasn't comparing McCain to Castro, he was merely pointing out that, like McCain, Castro has administrative and foreign policy experience that can be measured in years, indicating that that in itself is no measure of good governance. Given your stated intelligence, I'm surprised you misconstrued that so severely.


John McCain has the experience in foreign policy as it relates to our form of government and Barak Obama does not.


Please pardon me for this but I cannot help not correct this: Obama's name is spelt "Barack Obama".
10/23/2008 10:47:36 PM · #240
Originally posted by dponlyme:

Originally posted by scalvert:

Originally posted by dponlyme:

if by whatever circumstance I had attended Harvard Law school I would have been intelligent enough to get my law degree.

Idle speculation of how you might fare aside, Obama didn't just "get a law degree" from Harvard. He finished with Magna Cum Laude honors, did so in spite of a humble background, and was elected the first black president of the Harvard Law Review in only his second year. Those aren't chances given, but opportunities earned. Contrast that with McCain, who got into a prestigious military academy on his family's influence and barely avoided being kicked out to finish near the bottom of his class: opportunities given and foolishly squandered.


Granted. I take nothing away from Obama's accomplishments. It was my original point that merely having a high degree of intelligence isn't the only thing or even the most important thing to consider when picking a president. I stand firm to that position.


So you agree that John McCain had a mass of opportunities in front of him but screwed up and didnt avail of them?
10/23/2008 10:49:50 PM · #241
Originally posted by Prash:

Originally posted by dponlyme:

Originally posted by Louis:

Originally posted by dponlyme:

First, it is absolutely ludicrous to compare John McCain to Fidel Castro. Can I then compare Obama to Hitler.

Way to miss the point. He wasn't comparing McCain to Castro, he was merely pointing out that, like McCain, Castro has administrative and foreign policy experience that can be measured in years, indicating that that in itself is no measure of good governance. Given your stated intelligence, I'm surprised you misconstrued that so severely.


John McCain has the experience in foreign policy as it relates to our form of government and Barak Obama does not.


Please pardon me for this but I cannot help not correct this: Obama's name is spelt "Barack Obama".


Please pardon me for this but I cannot help not correct this: It's 'spelled' not 'spelt'

Sorry... I couldn't stop myself...
10/23/2008 10:53:41 PM · #242
Originally posted by dponlyme:

Originally posted by Prash:

Originally posted by dponlyme:

Originally posted by Louis:

Originally posted by dponlyme:

First, it is absolutely ludicrous to compare John McCain to Fidel Castro. Can I then compare Obama to Hitler.

Way to miss the point. He wasn't comparing McCain to Castro, he was merely pointing out that, like McCain, Castro has administrative and foreign policy experience that can be measured in years, indicating that that in itself is no measure of good governance. Given your stated intelligence, I'm surprised you misconstrued that so severely.


John McCain has the experience in foreign policy as it relates to our form of government and Barak Obama does not.


Please pardon me for this but I cannot help not correct this: Obama's name is spelt "Barack Obama".


Please pardon me for this but I cannot help not correct this: It's 'spelled' not 'spelt'

Sorry... I couldn't stop myself...


Uh.. thanks but...

Spell.
Verb, spelled or spelt, spelling.

Here is the source.

I refer you to my signature text.. you may figure out which one;-)

Message edited by author 2008-10-23 22:53:58.
10/23/2008 10:53:52 PM · #243
Originally posted by Prash:

Originally posted by dponlyme:

Originally posted by scalvert:

Originally posted by dponlyme:

if by whatever circumstance I had attended Harvard Law school I would have been intelligent enough to get my law degree.

Idle speculation of how you might fare aside, Obama didn't just "get a law degree" from Harvard. He finished with Magna Cum Laude honors, did so in spite of a humble background, and was elected the first black president of the Harvard Law Review in only his second year. Those aren't chances given, but opportunities earned. Contrast that with McCain, who got into a prestigious military academy on his family's influence and barely avoided being kicked out to finish near the bottom of his class: opportunities given and foolishly squandered.


Granted. I take nothing away from Obama's accomplishments. It was my original point that merely having a high degree of intelligence isn't the only thing or even the most important thing to consider when picking a president. I stand firm to that position.


So you agree that John McCain had a mass of opportunities in front of him but screwed up and didnt avail of them?


John has certainly not been a perfect human being.. most especially in his youth but can you really say that he hasn't 'experienced' growth over the years as a human being and been a successful man? I would say that he has.
10/23/2008 10:55:46 PM · #244
Originally posted by Prash:

Originally posted by dponlyme:

Originally posted by Prash:

Originally posted by dponlyme:

Originally posted by Louis:

Originally posted by dponlyme:

First, it is absolutely ludicrous to compare John McCain to Fidel Castro. Can I then compare Obama to Hitler.

Way to miss the point. He wasn't comparing McCain to Castro, he was merely pointing out that, like McCain, Castro has administrative and foreign policy experience that can be measured in years, indicating that that in itself is no measure of good governance. Given your stated intelligence, I'm surprised you misconstrued that so severely.


John McCain has the experience in foreign policy as it relates to our form of government and Barak Obama does not.


Please pardon me for this but I cannot help not correct this: Obama's name is spelt "Barack Obama".


Please pardon me for this but I cannot help not correct this: It's 'spelled' not 'spelt'

Sorry... I couldn't stop myself...


Uh.. thanks but...

Spell.
Verb, spelled or spelt, spelling.

Here is the source.

I refer you to my signature text.. you may figure out which one;-)


I stand corrected... boy you would think with all of my intelligence I would have known that. LOL.
10/23/2008 11:00:39 PM · #245
Originally posted by dponlyme:

Originally posted by Prash:

Originally posted by dponlyme:

Originally posted by scalvert:

Originally posted by dponlyme:

if by whatever circumstance I had attended Harvard Law school I would have been intelligent enough to get my law degree.

Idle speculation of how you might fare aside, Obama didn't just "get a law degree" from Harvard. He finished with Magna Cum Laude honors, did so in spite of a humble background, and was elected the first black president of the Harvard Law Review in only his second year. Those aren't chances given, but opportunities earned. Contrast that with McCain, who got into a prestigious military academy on his family's influence and barely avoided being kicked out to finish near the bottom of his class: opportunities given and foolishly squandered.


Granted. I take nothing away from Obama's accomplishments. It was my original point that merely having a high degree of intelligence isn't the only thing or even the most important thing to consider when picking a president. I stand firm to that position.


So you agree that John McCain had a mass of opportunities in front of him but screwed up and didnt avail of them?


John has certainly not been a perfect human being.. most especially in his youth but can you really say that he hasn't 'experienced' growth over the years as a human being and been a successful man? I would say that he has.


Ok then I would measure success looking at where one started. McCain was pretty well to do.. and he could have been so much more... hell he could have gone to Harvard if he wanted...but he screwed up. Obama started low, but made use of almost every opportunity he faced. You know economics. You say the score now. Who was more successful? ;-)
10/23/2008 11:04:48 PM · #246
Originally posted by Prash:

Originally posted by dponlyme:

Originally posted by scalvert:

Originally posted by dponlyme:

No I don't have examples of his foreign policy 'leadership' necessarily but the man has been involved in government and knowledgeable about foreign policy for a long time. He has lived the history that Obama can only read about.

So has Fidel Castro. There's more to good foreign policy and government than just being "involved in it" for a long time.

Originally posted by dponlyme:

Intelligent people will look beyond his charisma and see that his economic policies of wealth redistribution are not going to work in a capitalistic society...

A certain Arizona senator disagrees with you. Graduated tax brackets aren't exactly a new idea in this country, and taking from the poor to give to the obscenely-rich doesn't strike me as a better idea.


First, it is absolutely ludicrous to compare John McCain to Fidel Castro. Can I then compare Obama to Hitler. He was a highly successful community organizer. Secondly I don't expect everyone to agree with my opinion on the economy... it would be strange if they did considering the hugely liberal population on this site. Your link didn't work btw. I'm not in favor of a flat tax either but arbitrarily deciding to redistribute wealth (not just tax the rich at a higher rate in order to pay for those things only the government can provide i.e. defense) is not good tax policy if you want your economy to grow.


I do not have a degree in economics, so please elaborate on how keeping taxes low for the riches and taxing the middle class more helps the economy grow?


First the rich are taxed very highly. The highest rates of taxation are on the wealthiest. I do not advocate increasing the tax on the middle class. The point here is that we should be looking to lower taxes for everyone (who actually pays tax) including the rich and not increasing taxes on the rich to give to those who do not pay taxes.
10/23/2008 11:09:35 PM · #247
Originally posted by Prash:

Originally posted by dponlyme:

Originally posted by Prash:

Originally posted by dponlyme:

Originally posted by scalvert:

Originally posted by dponlyme:

if by whatever circumstance I had attended Harvard Law school I would have been intelligent enough to get my law degree.

Idle speculation of how you might fare aside, Obama didn't just "get a law degree" from Harvard. He finished with Magna Cum Laude honors, did so in spite of a humble background, and was elected the first black president of the Harvard Law Review in only his second year. Those aren't chances given, but opportunities earned. Contrast that with McCain, who got into a prestigious military academy on his family's influence and barely avoided being kicked out to finish near the bottom of his class: opportunities given and foolishly squandered.


Granted. I take nothing away from Obama's accomplishments. It was my original point that merely having a high degree of intelligence isn't the only thing or even the most important thing to consider when picking a president. I stand firm to that position.


So you agree that John McCain had a mass of opportunities in front of him but screwed up and didnt avail of them?


John has certainly not been a perfect human being.. most especially in his youth but can you really say that he hasn't 'experienced' growth over the years as a human being and been a successful man? I would say that he has.


Ok then I would measure success looking at where one started. McCain was pretty well to do.. and he could have been so much more... hell he could have gone to Harvard if he wanted...but he screwed up. Obama started low, but made use of almost every opportunity he faced. You know economics. You say the score now. Who was more successful? ;-)


Well, by my calculations the one who WILL BE the most successful will be the one who wins the most electoral votes in November. It very well might be John McCain.
10/23/2008 11:10:19 PM · #248
This is pointless.

Message edited by author 2008-10-23 23:17:09.
10/23/2008 11:14:42 PM · #249
The issue has already been dealt with.

Ray

Message edited by author 2008-10-23 23:15:27.
10/23/2008 11:16:48 PM · #250
Originally posted by dponlyme:

Originally posted by Prash:

Originally posted by dponlyme:

Originally posted by scalvert:

Originally posted by dponlyme:

No I don't have examples of his foreign policy 'leadership' necessarily but the man has been involved in government and knowledgeable about foreign policy for a long time. He has lived the history that Obama can only read about.

So has Fidel Castro. There's more to good foreign policy and government than just being "involved in it" for a long time.

Originally posted by dponlyme:

Intelligent people will look beyond his charisma and see that his economic policies of wealth redistribution are not going to work in a capitalistic society...

A certain Arizona senator disagrees with you. Graduated tax brackets aren't exactly a new idea in this country, and taking from the poor to give to the obscenely-rich doesn't strike me as a better idea.


First, it is absolutely ludicrous to compare John McCain to Fidel Castro. Can I then compare Obama to Hitler. He was a highly successful community organizer. Secondly I don't expect everyone to agree with my opinion on the economy... it would be strange if they did considering the hugely liberal population on this site. Your link didn't work btw. I'm not in favor of a flat tax either but arbitrarily deciding to redistribute wealth (not just tax the rich at a higher rate in order to pay for those things only the government can provide i.e. defense) is not good tax policy if you want your economy to grow.


I do not have a degree in economics, so please elaborate on how keeping taxes low for the riches and taxing the middle class more helps the economy grow?


First the rich are taxed very highly. The highest rates of taxation are on the wealthiest. I do not advocate increasing the tax on the middle class. The point here is that we should be looking to lower taxes for everyone (who actually pays tax) including the rich and not increasing taxes on the rich to give to those who do not pay taxes.


Now you know pretty well it is not practical to lower taxes for everyone.. taxes bring the major public revenues.. dont they? So how would lowering taxes on everyone help the economy grow?

On the other hand, if the ones who are already very well to do (in other words make >250K) pay just a tad more tax for all the great things they enjoy (corporate retreats and first class travel and packaging stupid mortgage plans and securing their departure packages and safe pensions), the middle class may actually use a little more tax break for things that actually matter in life like kid's education or providing opportunities to their kids so they wont complain they didnt get a chance to goto Harvard (;-) or save for their retirement or health expenses when their kids arent with them in old age.

Do you know anout the emerging world markets, BRIC? Brazil, Russia, India, and China? Do you know why they are fast becoming such big economies? Its because they are investing (or starting to invest) in their middle class.. they are empowering people to enrich their lives academically and professionally.

Just my opinion.. I dont expect you to agree, because I know you wont...

Message edited by author 2008-10-23 23:19:45.
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