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10/19/2008 11:24:31 AM · #126 |
Colin Powell Biographies
Note that he has published an autobiography as well. |
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10/19/2008 11:26:56 AM · #127 |
Powell's autobiography was a long but very interesting read. I highly recommend it.
~Terry
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10/19/2008 11:47:27 AM · #128 |
Originally posted by ClubJuggle:
Powell's autobiography was a long but very interesting read. I highly recommend it.
~Terry |
I'll pick it up when I see it. That's what I'm more interested in, his opinion on the events leading to the war. I don't know how far he goes in his descriptions of what happened but I'm interested in learning his point of view all the same. Thanks guys. |
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10/19/2008 12:04:23 PM · #129 |
Originally posted by Jac:
I'll pick it up when I see it. That's what I'm more interested in, his opinion on the events leading to the war. I don't know how far he goes in his descriptions of what happened but I'm interested in learning his point of view all the same. Thanks guys. |
His autobiography was released in 1995, so it doesn't cover the events leading up to the 2nd Iraq war.
~Terry
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10/19/2008 12:25:18 PM · #130 |
Originally posted by JH:
Originally posted by JMart:
Still, I'll never forgive the man for his role in misleading us into the Iraq war. I don't know if it would have gone any differently without Powell's cooperation |
Don't worry, I'm sure Bush/Cheney/Rumsfeld/Rice would have worked their way around it. |
That's what he said on Meet The Press. While his opinion was weighed, the administration had decided that the UN wasn't going to handle what they saw as a problem. They were going in and he had no control at a certain point.
What I'm most curious about is the administrations cherry picking of the intelligence in Iraq that has been stated on record from many accounts and how he wasn't aware of it.
U.S. Air Force Lieutenant Colonel , Karen U. Kwiatkowski basically sunk any defensible arguments to go to war based on the research she herself presented to the White House. From what I know she wrote the material they used and quoted, on air and was horrified how they mangled her reports in making their case to go to war.
"It wasn't intelligence — it was propaganda. They'd take a little bit of intelligence, cherry-pick it, make it sound much more exciting, usually by taking it out of context, often by juxtaposition of two pieces of information that don't belong together."
Again, I'm surprised Powell was unaware of this. Though she does condemn Rumsfeld who she personally briefed. Her interview in Why We Fight really lit me up and confirmed all my fears about our government's incompetence and corruption and what I'd suspected in the lead-up to Iraq. It seemed so obvious when you listened to the rhetoric but everyone collapsed. The media especially dropped the ball.
"The reason we're in Iraq first off has not honestly been told to the American people; it certainly had nothing to do with the liberation of the Iraqi people. It was never part of the agenda and it's not part of the agenda now." - Karen_Kwiatkowski
Message edited by author 2008-10-19 12:42:25. |
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10/19/2008 12:42:14 PM · #131 |
Originally posted by Jac:
True but I think the blame for the Iraq mess will historically be put onto the Republicans and Bush. He was just doing his job, although quite convincingly, and any other person would have done the same in that position. He must have had tremendous pressure on his shoulders to go out and convince the world that the evidence he was pointing to on maps during the news conferences were real and I'm pretty sure he believed the information as much as you and I. He must feel like he was tricked as much as any one of us. I don't read biographies of politicians much but his I would find an interesting read I'm sure.
eta
I was responding to JMart's post, although I agree with JH. |
I agree the blame will go on Bush & Co., But Powell was in a key position to put the brakes on and he should have dug deeper into concerns about the veracity of the intelligence reports before he stood behind them. If he had done his job, found out the intelligence was bad and stood his ground he very well could have saved countless lives and billions of dollars. He was the one person that moderate people in the US looked to and said, "Sure, Bush & Cheney may want a war, but a guy like Powell wouldn't push it if there was any question." I'm confident he made ALL the difference in swaying public opinion for the war.
I also have to say I don't think it's true that anyone would have done the same in his position. Many people in the US legislature pointed out exactly why we should have stayed out of Iraq. I was never convinced we should have invaded Iraq because arguments against it were so strong and I participated in protests against invading. The inspections were working, there was significant dissent before the invasion about the intelligence and, most importantly, any thinking person should have recognized that the Bush administration was just taking an angry, paranoid, & thoughtless swing in retaliation for 9/11 despite the fact Iraq had nothing to do with those attacks. |
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10/19/2008 12:42:56 PM · #132 |
Originally posted by Jac:
Originally posted by RKT:
More good stuff...Colin Powell endorses Obama. |
He finally admitted it. Good for him and good for the US. Ex Secretary of State voting against his party has got to be big news, even if it was expected for a while now. |
What does the NWO crowd care about parties, other than which buttons they need to push to further their current phase of the agenda? I find it hard to believe that Obama has not been brought into the fold by now. If not, then who better to initiate him than Colin Powell? He will either be assimilated or assassinated; and his policies suggest the former has already happened.
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10/19/2008 01:12:12 PM · #133 |
Watching Powell's post-interview, interview, I was glad to hear him end on the subject of taxes and also happy he seriously addressed the negative campaigning.
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10/19/2008 01:51:48 PM · #134 |
Originally posted by pawdrix:
Watching Powell's post-interview, interview, I was glad to hear him end on the subject of taxes and also happy he seriously addressed the negative campaigning. |
I was impressed with his deference towards both candidates. Also, it was notable that he went out of his way to point out that, while he still identifies as a Republican and does not agree with all of Obama's positions, he is unhappy with how far right the Republican party has moved and that played a part in his decision making. That's a bit ironic to me that he would make that point given that McCain is probably the least of all of the other potential Republican candidate possibilities, save perhaps Giuliani. Of course, McCain did have to make a serious move to the right to get the nomination & keep the base in tact, so I suppose that's part of the problem for Powell. |
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10/19/2008 02:07:12 PM · #135 |
Originally posted by JMart:
But Powell was in a key position to put the brakes on and he should have dug deeper into concerns about the veracity of the intelligence reports before he stood behind them. If he had done his job, found out the intelligence was bad and stood his ground he very well could have saved countless lives and billions of dollars. |
And he tried to put the brakes on. In September 2004 he testified that his sources re: the UN WMD presentation were wrong. By November 2004 he'd been 'asked' to resign.
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10/19/2008 02:56:15 PM · #136 |
Originally posted by Azrifel:
Originally posted by Melethia:
Just an aside - sales tax in Germany is 19%. They pay income tax as well.
Carry on. |
How much income tax in Germany?
At the moment we pay a top rate of 52% (that is for income over 52000 euro, over the part below that a part 40% and 35%). Yes I am quite happy paying and seeing what I get back for it.
Sales tax of 19%.
Tax on inhereted money 60%.
Tax on dividend 25%.
And what do you pay in the US? |
Holy
Friggin
Crap |
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10/19/2008 03:17:45 PM · #137 |
Originally posted by JH:
Originally posted by JMart:
But Powell was in a key position to put the brakes on and he should have dug deeper into concerns about the veracity of the intelligence reports before he stood behind them. If he had done his job, found out the intelligence was bad and stood his ground he very well could have saved countless lives and billions of dollars. |
And he tried to put the brakes on. In September 2004 he testified that his sources re: the UN WMD presentation were wrong. By November 2004 he'd been 'asked' to resign. |
That's a good point and I can respect his attempts to correct a serious mistake. Still, he should have figured out whether the intel was good or bad before standing before the world to vouch for it. |
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10/19/2008 03:19:11 PM · #138 |
Americans seem to have a major allergic reaction to taxes and I don't know why. It's not like we don't get a return. We need to pay for things one way or the next. Don't we?
If we did our homework and elected better representation we would certain;y get greater value from what we put in but the general concept of taxation is ok...by me.
I find that many of the decisions I make are for fear of having or losing my health care. I'd love to have socialized medicine or something close to ease my mind. Having traveled through Europe a lot over that last few years, I noticed that people seem happy and healthy enough with the systems they have in place, so baring perfection, tax away...
Message edited by author 2008-10-19 15:24:12. |
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10/19/2008 03:30:33 PM · #139 |
Originally posted by JMart:
More good news for Obama, but for me this has a bigger impact on rehabilitating Powell's tarnished image than helping Obama all that much. |
My feeling as well. |
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10/19/2008 03:39:56 PM · #140 |
Originally posted by pawdrix:
Americans seem to have a major allergic reaction to taxes and I don't know why. It's not like we don't get a return. We need to pay for things one way or the next. Don't we?
If we did our homework and elected better representation we would certain;y get greater value from what we put in but the general concept of taxation is ok...by me.
I find that many of the decisions I make are for fear of having or losing my health care. I'd love to have socialized medicine or something close to ease my mind. Having traveled through Europe a lot over that last few years, I noticed that people seem happy and healthy enough with the systems they have in place, so baring perfection, tax away... |
I think a large part of that is that the Europeans expect (and receive) something tangible for their taxes. The money is used for the benefit of the society paying them and not for things like invading other countries, killing people, blowing things up and generally showing off how "tough" they are like a schoolyard bully.
I'd gladly pay more taxes if it meant being able to sleep at night knowing that if something happened to me or one of my kids, it wouldn't mean going bankrupt to get treatment. |
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10/19/2008 06:47:17 PM · #141 |
Originally posted by Spazmo99:
Originally posted by pawdrix:
Americans seem to have a major allergic reaction to taxes and I don't know why. It's not like we don't get a return. We need to pay for things one way or the next. Don't we?
If we did our homework and elected better representation we would certain;y get greater value from what we put in but the general concept of taxation is ok...by me.
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I think a large part of that is that the Europeans expect (and receive) something tangible for their taxes. The money is used for the benefit of the society paying them and not for things like invading other countries, killing people, blowing things up and generally showing off how "tough" they are like a schoolyard bully. |
As I said, if we had better representation, we would get better services. Our government has very little oversight and almost no accountability.
Which leads me to another point Powell made about the divisive politics the McCain campaign has engaged in. He stated that all the anti-patriotic labeling had turned him off and he's absolutely right in his disgust. United we will stand and divided we are falling.
It's our right and our duty to question our government at ALL levels. Somehow it's now seen as being unpatriotic if we disagree with or check our Commander In Chief. The "if you're not with us, you're against us" tone set by the Bush administration was quite perverse and so damaging and the McCain camp has adopted the same style...at least from what I've been hearing from Palin.
For too many Americans, sticking their heads in the sand has become a virtue.
Message edited by author 2008-10-19 20:21:34. |
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10/19/2008 09:45:02 PM · #142 |
Originally posted by ClubJuggle:
Originally posted by Jac:
I'll pick it up when I see it. That's what I'm more interested in, his opinion on the events leading to the war. I don't know how far he goes in his descriptions of what happened but I'm interested in learning his point of view all the same. Thanks guys. |
His autobiography was released in 1995, so it doesn't cover the events leading up to the 2nd Iraq war.
~Terry |
I just lost a whole lot of interest for that book now. ;( I'll take a look at his online bio for now. |
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10/20/2008 12:12:45 PM · #143 |
The following quote from Meet the Press has restored alot of my faith in Colin Powell. (Bolding added by me).
"I'm also troubled by, not what Senator McCain says, but what members of the party say, and it is permitted to be said. Such things as 'Well you know that Mr. Obama is a Muslim.' Well the correct answer is 'He is not a Muslim, he's a Christian, he's always been a Christian.' But the really right answer is 'What if he is? Is there something wrong with being a Muslim in this country?' The answer is 'No. That's not America.' Is there something wrong with some 7-year old Muslim-American kid believing that he or she can be president? Yet I have heard senior members of my own party drop the suggestion he's a Muslim and he might be associated with terrorists. This is not the way we should be doing it in America.
"I feel strongly about this particular point because of a picture I saw in a magazine. It was a photo-essay about troops who were serving in Iraq and Afghanistan. And one picture at the tail end of this photo essay was of a mother in Arlington Cemetery and she had her head on the headstone of her son's grave. And as the picture focused in you can see the writing on the headstone. And it gave his awards, Purple Heart, Bronze Star, showed that he died in Iraq, gave his date of birth, date of death. He was 20 years old. And then at the very top of the headstone, it didn't have a Christian cross, it didn't have a Star of David. It had a crescent and a star of the Islamic faith. And his name was Karim Rashad Sultan Khan. And he was an American, he was born in New Jersey, he was 14 at the time of 9/11 and he waited until he can go serve his counrty and he gave his life." |
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10/20/2008 02:01:27 PM · #144 |
I agree that Bush administration morphed reality for certain ulterior motives to go and forcefully instill democracy in completely different cultural and political contexts. One doesnt need an ivy league MBA to conclude that democracy cannot be forced.
Dont you think more accountable people will reach the senate if more people voted?
It is surprising that in a democracy, where people supposedly have power, only about half the eligible ones appear to vote. Dont get me wrong: a government is all to blame for when they screw up... but it just doesnt sound entirely fair if half the voters stand on the sidelines when it is time to act.
Btw on my last road trip, I saw this decal which said "My Tommy is smarter than our president":-)
And out here on the west coast, I counted 5 Obama supporting decals.. and only 1 for McCain when commuting for work during the last week. But then this is California. |
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10/20/2008 03:48:19 PM · #145 |
"But the really right answer is 'What if he is? Is there something wrong with being a Muslim in this country?' The answer is 'No. That's not America.' -CP
I thought that was brilliant and he's the only person who seems to have caught that.
He laid out a very solid case for his reasoning to go with Obama and made some simple points that are inline with mine.
When Palin keeps plugging the "true American"..."who's the real Patriot" bullshit I get very offended. It's devious, divisive and appeals to only the lowest common denominator. It's also dangerous and something the present administration stooped to when they needed to sure up a base for whatever scheme they had planned.
I believe that questioning our government is one of most important duties as citizens AND doing so is as patriotic as the day is long. Anyone who doesn't understand that has no idea what being an American or a Patriot is.
Watching those McCain Palin Town Hall rallys is seriously painfull for me. They make me cringe. Honestly, an embarassment, as an American. I remember traveling around Europe in the 80's and 90's and the respect I recieved and how much it's diminished over the last 8 years. Like Powell said, those images being shown across the world are "killing us".
To another one of Powell statments...
We do need a fresh, transformational face and a new approach to how we conduct ourselves nationally and globally because the old school way of business doesn't cut it...never did. The country has developed a very strange and unhealthy atittude. It's cancerous. If we're not very careful it will consume us and there will be no turning back.
China for example, is getting very rich from our ignorance and childish behavior.
ETA:Stock suggestion for the bold. Hong Kong - iShares EWH.
Message edited by author 2008-10-20 17:37:30. |
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10/20/2008 03:53:33 PM · #146 |
Originally posted by Prash:
I agree that Bush administration morphed reality for certain ulterior motives to go and forcefully instill democracy in completely different cultural and political contexts. One doesnt need an ivy league MBA to conclude that democracy cannot be forced.
Dont you think more accountable people will reach the senate if more people voted?
It is surprising that in a democracy, where people supposedly have power, only about half the eligible ones appear to vote. Dont get me wrong: a government is all to blame for when they screw up... but it just doesnt sound entirely fair if half the voters stand on the sidelines when it is time to act.
Btw on my last road trip, I saw this decal which said "My Tommy is smarter than our president":-)
And out here on the west coast, I counted 5 Obama supporting decals.. and only 1 for McCain when commuting for work during the last week. But then this is California. |
Good points. I console myself by thinking that hopefully more informed people vote than those who are not informed. If the other 50% just votes for who's cuter or who's a hunter or not, then I would rather they stay home. ;] |
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10/20/2008 05:51:36 PM · #147 |
Today, I've had enough. And I have such an urge to rage against what is being said about me and what is being said about others in this country. I wanted to write a letter to John McCain to tell him how I feel, but I can only find a location on his website to ask a question or donate money. I don't have a question; I have a response. I don't want to give him money; I think he should send me some. So I will vent here.
Today, I read, for the umteenth time, of how, according to Sarah Palin, I am not the best of America. That I am not kind, good, or courageous, or even patriotic. By her thoughts and speech, I seem to be all of what is wrong with the country, by virtue of where I live: not in small town America. She has written me off as not hard working and not pro-America.
Then, I turn around, and McCain is railing against feminists, using the word as if slinging insults.
It would seem to me that John McCain and Sarah Palin are working harder than ever to alienate people, particularly people who probably (but not definitely) weren't going to vote for him. Why, in the middle of a campaign would he do that? What is he thinking, what are they thinking, targeting more than 50% of the population of this country in their, essentially, hate speech?
In July, I could have voted either way; I was waiting for more information from both candidates to make a final decision. Then McCain picked Palin as a running mate and I could not, in good conscious, vote for the Republican ticket. I wasn't sold on Obama but just the anti-abortion stance of Palin was enough to turn me away.
Since then, I have been waiting and watching. And over the last few weeks, McCain and Palin have proved over and over that I am not one of the people deemed worthy in their view of the country.
And its not a democrat/republican thing, it is an issue thing. I don't think McCain/Palin will respect my human rights, as a citizen and as a woman. I am a feminist city-dweller born and bred, obviously beneath contempt. There is no place for me in their America, one I'm feeling stronger and stronger that I do not want to be part of.
...rant over. proceed with discussion. |
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10/20/2008 06:47:19 PM · #148 |
Courtenay, look here for his addresses. Hit the contact tab, and there they are.
I've been over the false patriotism and jingoism for quite a while now. |
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10/20/2008 07:15:05 PM · #149 |
Originally posted by RKT:
Courtenay, look here for his addresses. Hit the contact tab, and there they are.
I've been over the false patriotism and jingoism for quite a while now. |
Thank you. I will write. Maybe I've just had a bad day and this one just pushed me over the top. |
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10/20/2008 07:19:07 PM · #150 |
Originally posted by Jac:
I console myself by thinking that hopefully more informed people vote than those who are not informed. If the other 50% just votes for who's cuter or who's a hunter or not, then I would rather they stay home. ;] |
That's my attitude about voter turn out. If only 30% of the country takes the time to learn about the issues and where the candidates stand on those issues, then I'd be just as happy if the other 70% stayed home on election day.
The trouble is that people who are too lazy to educate themselves properly on issues (i.e. the majority) are way too easy to manipulate with logical fallacies and lies. So, campaigns go after that crowd with an 'ends justify the means' attitude and we are left with illogical, dumbed down, lying and poisonous political fights. Unfortunately, I don't see any good solutions to the problem other than education, something the US is painfully bad at currently. Not enough civics education or classes in argumentative logic and certainly not enough parents who make their children's education a top priority. |
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