US ELECTION '08 - DPChallenge Forums

10/23/2008 11:18:13 PM · #251

Originally posted by dponlyme:

Originally posted by Prash:

Originally posted by dponlyme:

Originally posted by Prash:

Originally posted by dponlyme:

Originally posted by scalvert:

Originally posted by dponlyme:
if by whatever circumstance I had attended Harvard Law school I would have been intelligent enough to get my law degree.

Idle speculation of how you might fare aside, Obama didn't just "get a law degree" from Harvard. He finished with Magna Cum Laude honors, did so in spite of a humble background, and was elected the first black president of the Harvard Law Review in only his second year. Those aren't chances given, but opportunities earned. Contrast that with McCain, who got into a prestigious military academy on his family's influence and barely avoided being kicked out to finish near the bottom of his class: opportunities given and foolishly squandered.

Granted. I take nothing away from Obama's accomplishments. It was my original point that merely having a high degree of intelligence isn't the only thing or even the most important thing to consider when picking a president. I stand firm to that position.

So you agree that John McCain had a mass of opportunities in front of him but screwed up and didnt avail of them?

John has certainly not been a perfect human being.. most especially in his youth but can you really say that he hasn't 'experienced' growth over the years as a human being and been a successful man? I would say that he has.

Ok then I would measure success looking at where one started. McCain was pretty well to do.. and he could have been so much more... hell he could have gone to Harvard if he wanted...but he screwed up. Obama started low, but made use of almost every opportunity he faced. You know economics. You say the score now. Who was more successful? ;-)

Well, by my calculations the one who WILL BE the most successful will be the one who wins the most electoral votes in November. It very well might be John McCain.

Ok now you start to talk plain nonsense because you cant keep up with a logical conversation. Talk about what IS my friend.. not what WILL BE.

Canon EF-S 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 USM

10/23/2008 11:22:50 PM · #252

Originally posted by vxpra:

Originally posted by dponlyme:
A lot of Americans are simply sheep and will follow the voice of 'The One' or 'that one'. Not saying that all Obama supporters are sheep but quite a lot of them are. Intelligent people will look beyond his charisma and see that his economic policies of wealth redistribution are not going to work in a capitalistic society.

So, only stupid people will vote for Obama? Sheep? I really hope your listening to yourself.

Let me tell you why I am voting for Obama. The direction this country is headed scares the hell out of me. The radical elements of this country are pushing it in a direction that can only lead to its destruction. Republicans claim to be for smaller, less intrusive government- yet they give us the largest wire tapping program (and thats just what we know about) ever- in the name of securing freedoms. We have laws on the books that were born out of panic and paranoia. Dick Cheney led a behind the scenes campaign to give the president virtually unlimited war making powers, and it didn't stop with war is the scary thing. Cheney pushed for much broader law making powers for the executive branch- effectively attempting to create a dictatorship. The White House knowingly violated laws in the name of National Security, anyone that questioned what they were doing was classified as Un-American, unpatriotic- whatever buzz word they wanted to plant on dissent at the time. Cheney refused to comply with presidential directives on classified materials and went so far as saying that the Vice Presidency was not a part of the executive branch, was not a part of the legislative branch, but operated as its own arm of government.

Did you read the second sentence in the quote? Maybe I should say that when I wrote 'intelligent' in the context of the third sentence what I really meant was in the vain that "all intelligent people should think like me because I consider myself intelligent. so why don't they?"

I wasn't looking to denigrate the intelligence of all Obama supporters... just a lot of them. I guess I should also state for fairness that there are sheep on both sides.

I won't speak to the rest of your rant... you seem a little upset.

RayEthier

Canon EOS-5D Mark II

10/23/2008 11:24:38 PM · #253

Originally posted by dponlyme:

I won't speak to the rest of your rant... you seem a little upset.

Being an intelligent man, surely you can understand why!

Ray

10/23/2008 11:27:36 PM · #254

Originally posted by Prash:

Originally posted by dponlyme:

Well, by my calculations the one who WILL BE the most successful will be the one who wins the most electoral votes in November. It very well might be John McCain.

Ok now you start to talk plain nonsense because you cant keep up with a logical conversation. Talk about what IS my friend.. not what WILL BE.

Isn't this kind of pointless... they both could be the next president of the United States. I'd say both are very successful.

10/23/2008 11:27:43 PM · #255

Originally posted by dponlyme:

Originally posted by vxpra:

Originally posted by dponlyme:
A lot of Americans are simply sheep and will follow the voice of 'The One' or 'that one'. Not saying that all Obama supporters are sheep but quite a lot of them are. Intelligent people will look beyond his charisma and see that his economic policies of wealth redistribution are not going to work in a capitalistic society.

So, only stupid people will vote for Obama? Sheep? I really hope your listening to yourself.

Let me tell you why I am voting for Obama. The direction this country is headed scares the hell out of me. The radical elements of this country are pushing it in a direction that can only lead to its destruction. Republicans claim to be for smaller, less intrusive government- yet they give us the largest wire tapping program (and thats just what we know about) ever- in the name of securing freedoms. We have laws on the books that were born out of panic and paranoia. Dick Cheney led a behind the scenes campaign to give the president virtually unlimited war making powers, and it didn't stop with war is the scary thing. Cheney pushed for much broader law making powers for the executive branch- effectively attempting to create a dictatorship. The White House knowingly violated laws in the name of National Security, anyone that questioned what they were doing was classified as Un-American, unpatriotic- whatever buzz word they wanted to plant on dissent at the time. Cheney refused to comply with presidential directives on classified materials and went so far as saying that the Vice Presidency was not a part of the executive branch, was not a part of the legislative branch, but operated as its own arm of government.

Did you read the second sentence in the quote? Maybe I should say that when I wrote 'intelligent' in the context of the third sentence what I really meant was in the vain that "all intelligent people should think like me because I consider myself intelligent. so why don't they?"

I wasn't looking to denigrate the intelligence of all Obama supporters... just a lot of them. I guess I should also state for fairness that there are sheep on both sides.

I won't speak to the rest of your rant... you seem a little upset.

This is a genuine opinion: why are you facing all this alone? For what? You dont seem stupid enough to believe in the values McCain represents. Seriously, what is one thing that you feel proud of that he ever did? It isnt worth standing up for a guy who didnt have enough discretion to make the best out of his own life. Seriously, come.. join the sheep. There is plenty goodwill here... more peace, less war:-)

10/23/2008 11:31:02 PM · #256

Originally posted by dponlyme:

Originally posted by Prash:

Originally posted by dponlyme:

Well, by my calculations the one who WILL BE the most successful will be the one who wins the most electoral votes in November. It very well might be John McCain.

Ok now you start to talk plain nonsense because you cant keep up with a logical conversation. Talk about what IS my friend.. not what WILL BE.

Isn't this kind of pointless... they both could be the next president of the United States. I'd say both are very successful.

Ahahahahah!! ROTFLMAO!

So you mean to say IF one becomes the president, he/she is successful? Are you seriously ignoring the argument I gave about measuring success relative to where one started from? This is not a good value to keep, but you have a right to do so.

Also, do you know our current president? Do you know what people say about him? I will just quote a decal: "My Tommy is smarter than our president.". Not my words.

Message edited by author 2008-10-23 23:31:47.

scalvert

Canon EOS-5D Mark III

10/23/2008 11:31:07 PM · #257

Originally posted by vxpra:

This is pointless.

Well spoken.

10/23/2008 11:32:53 PM · #258

Originally posted by scalvert:

Originally posted by vxpra:
This is pointless.

Well spoken.

I concur. I stop now. No point arguing with someone who can put logic aside when they run out of facts.

10/23/2008 11:35:40 PM · #259

Originally posted by RayEthier:

Originally posted by dponlyme:

I won't speak to the rest of your rant... you seem a little upset.

Being an intelligent man, surely you can understand why!

Ray

No, not really. I clearly stated that all Obama supporters were not sheep. I would think that merely by the nature of the comment it should be clear that it was just my opinion that if you were intelligent you would think as I do even though I obviously knew that wasn't the case... and obviously I was wrong... damn I'm looking less intelligent all the time.

10/23/2008 11:36:40 PM · #260

Originally posted by dponlyme:

Originally posted by RayEthier:

Originally posted by dponlyme:

I won't speak to the rest of your rant... you seem a little upset.

Being an intelligent man, surely you can understand why!

Ray

No, not really. I clearly stated that all Obama supporters were not sheep. I would think that merely by the nature of the comment it should be clear that it was just my opinion that if you were intelligent you would think as I do even though I obviously knew that wasn't the case... and obviously I was wrong... damn I'm looking less intelligent all the time.

Perhaps we all are? ;-)

Message edited by author 2008-10-23 23:37:01.

zeuszen

Canon EOS-1Ds Mark II

10/23/2008 11:38:02 PM · #261

Originally posted by Prash:

Originally posted by scalvert:

Originally posted by vxpra:
This is pointless.

Well spoken.

I concur. I stop now. No point arguing with someone who can put logic aside when they run out of facts.

No point, yet even sheep is entitled to vote.

10/23/2008 11:43:55 PM · #262

Originally posted by zeuszen:

Originally posted by Prash:

Originally posted by scalvert:

Originally posted by vxpra:
This is pointless.

Well spoken.

I concur. I stop now. No point arguing with someone who can put logic aside when they run out of facts.

No point, yet even sheep is entitled to vote.

At the risk of being somehow proven wrong...
I'm gonna say that it should be 'sheep are entitled to vote'

Message edited by author 2008-10-23 23:44:08.

zeuszen

Canon EOS-1Ds Mark II

10/23/2008 11:45:59 PM · #263

Originally posted by dponlyme:

At the risk of being somehow proven wrong...
I'm gonna say that it should be 'sheep are entitled to vote'

It would depend on who the sheep is and on how many identify with it.

10/23/2008 11:48:29 PM · #264

Originally posted by Prash:

What? are you all giving up?

So then we can all agree that intelligence is not necessarily the most important characteristic of a candidate in making the decision as to who should be our next president?

That was the original point. Why is it so hard to simply recognize this as a fact?

DrAchoo

Panasonic Lumix DMC-LX5

Olympus 7-14mm f/4.0 Zuiko Digital Zoom

10/23/2008 11:56:14 PM · #265

Originally posted by dponlyme:

First, it is absolutely ludicrous to compare John McCain to Fidel Castro. Can I then compare Obama to Hitler.

***blows whistle***

OK, folks. I'm afraid the thread is done...

Goodwin's Law
[Usenet] �As a Usenet discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches one.� There is a tradition in many groups that, once this occurs, that thread is over, and whoever mentioned the Nazis has automatically lost whatever argument was in progress.

MichaelC

DJI Mini 3 Pro

10/24/2008 12:08:54 AM · #266

Originally posted by DrAchoo:

***blows whistle***

OK, folks. I'm afraid the thread is done...

Best post of the thread and the first time today I've laughed out loud...thnx Doc

one2one

Olympus E-5

10/24/2008 12:12:13 AM · #267

Originally posted by dponlyme:

That was the original point. Why is it so hard to simply recognize this as a fact?

It is your opinion, not fact, that is why. |-}

Message edited by author 2008-10-24 00:13:19.

briantammy

Olympus PEN E-P3

Konica Minolta MF 85mm f/1.7

10/24/2008 01:13:40 AM · #268

i haven't been following this thread lately but since this is the only political thread i guess we can jump around a bit (topic wise)

the mccain team has been stressing the "spreading the wealth" concept and i think it actually will hurt him.

there are some people who gain their wealth unethically and some people who are poor through no fault of their own but generally the idea of taking money from those who earned and giving it to those who haven't earned it is fundamentally wrong, isn't it? mccain believes it is and stresses it, i believe to his disadvantage.

i'm not sure about the percentages of who will gain and who will loose but from what obama says, under his plan most people will not be taxed more and many will actually receive money during tax time. if that's true then what he is saying, unfortunately, won't bother most people. he is probably not getting most of his votes from the wealthy anyways. but as mccain keeps hammering this issue he's reminding a large percent of the population that obama is planning to give them money that they don't need to work for. not much incentive to vote against that.

what is comes down to i believe is that most americans are far too selfish and lazy to care about what's best for this country as a whole and that is the leading cause of our crises. We don't want to admit it or take responsibility because that would mean sacrifice. We'd rather let someone else take care of us and blame them when things go wrong.

Canon EF-S 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 USM

10/24/2008 01:24:13 AM · #269

Originally posted by Jac:

Originally posted by dponlyme:

That was the original point. Why is it so hard to simply recognize this as a fact?

It is your opinion, not fact, that is why. |-}

What facts are you talking about

dponlyme? You conveniently ignore every fact that is presented.. and base your statements with no logic but only prejudices.

You are the one who is not considering the facts when they are presented here for whatever reasons. When faced with fact that McCain couldnt even brighten his own life on values, you turned the subject and started talking about future. When faced with the fact that opportunities are grabbed and not 'waited' for, you chose to say something that doesnt make sense. It is upto an individual to grab an opportunity.. IMO it is not an admirable quality to complain that one didnt 'get' any opportunities to rise upto.

We need a president who takes other nations with him..earns respect..and doesnt just boss around. We dont need just a war chief. See how you alienated yourself? Nobody wants to discuss this now. Do you really think just being a maverick and stating ones opinion stubbornly helps in being a leader? Perhaps in army.. or in a business. Not in presidency.

It IS thus pointless to argue with you.

Good luck with your beliefs and your patronship for McCain. You have a right to believe so. I respect your opinions, but thats where it ends.

Message edited by author 2008-10-24 01:31:53.

Gordon

RIM BlackBerry Curve

Canon EF 85mm f/1.8 USM

10/24/2008 04:38:18 AM · #270

Originally posted by Prash:

On the other hand, if the ones who are already very well to do (in other words make >250K) pay just a tad more tax for all the great things they enjoy (corporate retreats and first class travel and packaging stupid mortgage plans and securing their departure packages and safe pensions)

Earning >$250k is quite far from the level that gets you to the corporate retreats and first class travel.
Maybe doubling it would get you into that sort of stuff, dunno.

RayEthier

Canon EOS-5D Mark II

10/24/2008 06:47:16 AM · #271

Originally posted by DrAchoo:

Originally posted by dponlyme:
First, it is absolutely ludicrous to compare John McCain to Fidel Castro. Can I then compare Obama to Hitler.

***blows whistle***

OK, folks. I'm afraid the thread is done...

Goodwin's Law
[Usenet] �As a Usenet discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches one.� There is a tradition in many groups that, once this occurs, that thread is over, and whoever mentioned the Nazis has automatically lost whatever argument was in progress.

Thanks a bunch Doc... As if it wasn't enough that some members of the SC can arbitrarily lock a thread because some idiot made an inflammatory remark...now here you are seeking for yet another lock down.

Read the heading Doc... it says RANT... Surely that should allow for some degree of latitude.

Just a thought,

Ray

Olympus 7-14mm f/4.0 Zuiko Digital Zoom

10/24/2008 08:49:45 AM · #272

Originally posted by Jac:

Originally posted by dponlyme:

That was the original point. Why is it so hard to simply recognize this as a fact?

It is your opinion, not fact, that is why. |-}

I know.... I was just having a little fun with you guys.

one2one

Olympus E-5

10/24/2008 08:54:12 AM · #273

nvm

Message edited by author 2008-10-24 08:56:48.