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10/15/2008 08:07:03 PM · #51 |
Not sure you could characterize this as a gaffe. It's kind of commendable that he would forcibly remove the microphone from this woman's hands and disabuse her of that particular lie in no uncertain terms. They need to do more of that. |
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10/15/2008 08:43:23 PM · #52 |
A very smart and readable Frank Rich Op-Ed column from this week on racial politics,
The Terrorist Barack Hussein Obama
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10/15/2008 09:12:29 PM · #53 |
| Who the hell is "Joe the Plumber"?? |
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10/15/2008 09:46:56 PM · #54 |
Originally posted by buzzrock:
Who the hell is "Joe the Plumber"?? |
If he's benefiting under McCain's plan, he's one rich plumber.
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10/15/2008 10:05:54 PM · #55 |
Yeah pretty much.. Since it is not natural to choose death over living.
Originally posted by Gordon:
Originally posted by coronamv:
Well ok but looking at it from a survival perspective it is talk then kill. No one just chooses to die unless they have some serious mental issues. |
So all martyrs are mentally ill? |
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10/15/2008 10:09:59 PM · #56 |
Doubtful since If I follow your line f thinking your saying this since Jesus Died for the sins of Christians. I bet he wanted to live and continue his teachings in peace. So I'm not sure it was a willing choice.
Originally posted by Gordon:
Originally posted by Kelli:
Originally posted by Gordon:
Originally posted by coronamv:
Well ok but looking at it from a survival perspective it is talk then kill. No one just chooses to die unless they have some serious mental issues. |
So all martyrs are mentally ill? |
Of course! LOL! |
I think most Christian's might take offense to this, for a start. |
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10/15/2008 10:26:55 PM · #57 |
Originally posted by coronamv:
Doubtful since If I follow your line f thinking your saying this since Jesus Died for the sins of Christians. I bet he wanted to live and continue his teachings in peace. So I'm not sure it was a willing choice.
Originally posted by Gordon:
Originally posted by Kelli:
Originally posted by Gordon:
Originally posted by coronamv:
Well ok but looking at it from a survival perspective it is talk then kill. No one just chooses to die unless they have some serious mental issues. |
So all martyrs are mentally ill? |
Of course! LOL! |
I think most Christian's might take offense to this, for a start. |
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Are you saying that Jesus wanted to defy God, his Father? |
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10/15/2008 11:28:10 PM · #58 |
Originally posted by Spazmo99:
Originally posted by coronamv:
Doubtful since If I follow your line f thinking your saying this since Jesus Died for the sins of Christians. I bet he wanted to live and continue his teachings in peace. So I'm not sure it was a willing choice.
Originally posted by Gordon:
Originally posted by Kelli:
Originally posted by Gordon:
Originally posted by coronamv:
Well ok but looking at it from a survival perspective it is talk then kill. No one just chooses to die unless they have some serious mental issues. |
So all martyrs are mentally ill? |
Of course! LOL! |
I think most Christian's might take offense to this, for a start. |
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Are you saying that Jesus wanted to defy God, his Father? |
And are you saying that Jesus/God/H.Spirit didn't know the script ahead of time? |
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10/16/2008 09:54:12 AM · #59 |
Misconceptions of Obama fuel Republican campaign - 13 Oct 08.
This morning a coworker sent me this scary youtube clip.
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10/16/2008 10:01:59 AM · #60 |
Originally posted by JMart:
Originally posted by Spazmo99:
Originally posted by coronamv:
Doubtful since If I follow your line f thinking your saying this since Jesus Died for the sins of Christians. I bet he wanted to live and continue his teachings in peace. So I'm not sure it was a willing choice.
Originally posted by Gordon:
Originally posted by Kelli:
Originally posted by Gordon:
Originally posted by coronamv:
Well ok but looking at it from a survival perspective it is talk then kill. No one just chooses to die unless they have some serious mental issues. |
So all martyrs are mentally ill? |
Of course! LOL! |
I think most Christian's might take offense to this, for a start. |
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Are you saying that Jesus wanted to defy God, his Father? |
And are you saying that Jesus/God/H.Spirit didn't know the script ahead of time? |
I'd say that it's all a bunch of BS |
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10/16/2008 10:12:58 AM · #61 |
Good article on the obvious racism being demonstrated at republican rallies and Palin being the instigator of most of it at these gatherings. I'm sure most of these rednecks attending these rallies have never attended one before but are making it a point to be there this year because they feel they have to, for obvious reasons.
I've sensed this coming ever since Obama won the nomination. It would be unrealistic to say that this wasn't expected. Americans have come a long way regarding racism but it hasn't completely healed from its history of abuse of minorities and racism still exists today although it is veiled and hidden. Racists have become more discreet and do not have the same backing as they did 20 or more years ago. Times are changing but have not changed completely for the better, regarding minorities and their treatment. We see it today at republican rallies and it saddens me very much.
I hope Obama, after winning the election, stays alive for four years. If he indeed gets killed there's going to be civil unrest and out right civil war in the US. What better reason can there be for it?
Message edited by author 2008-10-16 10:14:25. |
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10/16/2008 10:35:43 AM · #62 |
Originally posted by Louis:
Not sure you could characterize this as a gaffe. It's kind of commendable that he would forcibly remove the microphone from this woman's hands and disabuse her of that particular lie in no uncertain terms. They need to do more of that. |
I think the reason this could be considered a gaffe, at least in part, is because it's suggesting that Arabs can't be good, decent family men. The word "Arab" in this context is being used as a slur, and McCain reinforced the slur in his answer. |
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10/16/2008 11:49:00 AM · #63 |
Originally posted by citymars:
This morning a coworker sent me this scary youtube clip. |
The ignorance and bias of rural America is painfully staggering. It's like these people are incapable of reading past a headline from the National Enquirer or Faux News. I could excuse an computer illiterate like McCain, but with the sum of human knowledge available at your fingertips, it's not that hard to hit Snopes or Factcheck to see if there's a shred of truth to an emailed rumor or negative ad. I'm a little disappointed that Obama was so reserved in his debate responses (though I do understand why). He could have crushed everything McCain threw at him.
RE Ayers: Plenty of prominent politicians from both parties have worked with Ayers. If he's a terrorist, why isn't Homeland Security going after him? If the Republican-led government doesn't consider him a terrorist, then shouldn't your campaign have more relevant issues to focus on?
RE ACORN: Are you seriously going to continue with this distraction? The entire basis of your complaints are about voter registrations, not actual voting. There are systems in place that would ensure that a registration submitted for Mickey Mouse wouldn't result in Mickey Mouse actually casting a vote, so fraudulent registrations don't benefit ANY candidate. ACORN tries to help young, disabled and underprivileged Americans exercise their right to vote, not to sway them toward any particular candidate, and it's interesting that you would be putting so much effort into keeping these groups away from the polls. I have personally sponsored several bills to encourage honest voting, among them a bill to prohibit deceptive practices in Federal elections... an issue I'm sure Republicans would rather not highlight right now.
RE Bush: I agree that you are not Bush in name, but in terms of key policies across the board: education, foreign policy, economics, taxes... you're a W2. (<-- news media would have a field day with that)
RE Negative Campaigning: If you don't like negative campaigning, then why are you devoting so much of this debate to it? Let's talk about issues.
RE Distributing Wealth: Essential government services cost money, and 80% of this nation's wealth is held by the top 20%. It should be plainly obvious that giving a financial break to only the wealthiest people will only plunge the country deeper into our current economic crisis, and my plan will instead cut taxes for the overwhelming majority of Americans who need it the most. Optional zinger: I will concede that Senator McCain has some noteworthy experience when it comes to bailing out failed banks...
RE Serving the Country: Senator McCain's biggest achievement appears to be his heroic image as a POW. In his 26 years as a U.S. senator, is there nothing on his resume worth mentioning since then? Right now the American people are prisoners of an ill-conceived war and failed Republican policies. We need to see some heroics in Washington, and not 25 years ago. Right now.
Again, I understand why Obama didn't "go there," but I can't help but feel a little sorry for McCain. He seems to be personally uncomfortable with the dishonesty of his own campaign, and it really shows at rallies when the crowd starts shouting about terrorists and Muslims. It's sad to watch (meanwhile, Palin's just excited to be picked for the team). |
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10/16/2008 12:37:45 PM · #64 |
Originally posted by Judith Polakoff:
Originally posted by Louis:
Not sure you could characterize this as a gaffe. It's kind of commendable that he would forcibly remove the microphone from this woman's hands and disabuse her of that particular lie in no uncertain terms. They need to do more of that. |
I think the reason this could be considered a gaffe, at least in part, is because it's suggesting that Arabs can't be good, decent family men. The word "Arab" in this context is being used as a slur, and McCain reinforced the slur in his answer. |
I understood the spin, but I'm not sure it's accurate. |
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10/16/2008 01:04:57 PM · #65 |
Originally posted by scalvert:
Originally posted by citymars:
This morning a coworker sent me this scary youtube clip. |
The ignorance and bias of rural America is painfully staggering. It's like these people are incapable of reading past a headline from the National Enquirer or Faux News. I could excuse an computer illiterate like McCain, but with the sum of human knowledge available at your fingertips, it's not that hard to hit Snopes or Factcheck to see if there's a shred of truth to an emailed rumor or negative ad. |
When I said that many people are receiving my state's Medicaid program just because of stupidity you tell me that my compassion is underwhelming. Now because they are saying stupid things about your candidate it's okay to lump rural America into one category and dismiss them all as people who are incapable of reading something other than the Enquirer?
Makes perfect sense. |
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10/16/2008 01:09:08 PM · #66 |
I think McCain handled that well. Did you hear the last word from the lady? She genuinely was learning something new when McCain grabbed the mic and told her what he did.
Republicans seem to have two campaigns going, one that panders to the rowdy types who are on the verge of screaming out their discontentment with the democratic nominee's skin colour or his middle name and another trying to pander to those who aren't paying attention to the previous and are waiting for concrete commitments to the economy and the recent financial crisis. Palin panders to the middle class and McCain tries to do the same to the financial types or the upper middle class types. The republican party is alienating their own party members and it all shows in the recent polls from every major news source, north or south.
"You are more likely to be killed by a meteor dropping on your head than McCain becoming president,"
Good site to track national polls |
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10/16/2008 01:19:17 PM · #67 |
That's funny, Shannon. I do the same thing. I can barely restrain myself from shouting retorts at the screen during the debate. I had to quit after an hour. That was all I could take.
"So, instead of letting people have their own money, you would give it to Joe Plumber and let it trickle down from him?" |
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10/16/2008 01:23:37 PM · #68 |
Originally posted by posthumous:
That's funny, Shannon. I do the same thing. I can barely restrain myself from shouting retorts at the screen during the debate. I had to quit after an hour. That was all I could take.
"So, instead of letting people have their own money, you would give it to Joe Plumber and let it trickle down from him?" |
I even find the term "trickle down economics" hysterical. I've known quite a few people with some major money, and they have got to be the tightest people I know when it comes to money. They wouldn't let a penny trickle anywhere, ever. When they do open their wallets, moths fly out. |
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10/16/2008 01:31:59 PM · #69 |
Originally posted by Phil:
Originally posted by scalvert:
Originally posted by citymars:
This morning a coworker sent me this scary youtube clip. |
The ignorance and bias of rural America is painfully staggering. It's like these people are incapable of reading past a headline from the National Enquirer or Faux News. I could excuse an computer illiterate like McCain, but with the sum of human knowledge available at your fingertips, it's not that hard to hit Snopes or Factcheck to see if there's a shred of truth to an emailed rumor or negative ad. |
When I said that many people are receiving my state's Medicaid program just because of stupidity you tell me that my compassion is underwhelming. Now because they are saying stupid things about your candidate it's okay to lump rural America into one category and dismiss them all as people who are incapable of reading something other than the Enquirer?
Makes perfect sense. |
It does make perfect sense. The people in your state, or any state for that matter, that are receiving Medicaid, are indeed stupid and ignorant if they support McCain. His policies and programs will benefit the rich at the expense of the poor. |
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10/16/2008 01:38:28 PM · #70 |
Originally posted by Spazmo99:
Originally posted by Phil:
Originally posted by scalvert:
Originally posted by citymars:
This morning a coworker sent me this scary youtube clip. |
The ignorance and bias of rural America is painfully staggering. It's like these people are incapable of reading past a headline from the National Enquirer or Faux News. I could excuse an computer illiterate like McCain, but with the sum of human knowledge available at your fingertips, it's not that hard to hit Snopes or Factcheck to see if there's a shred of truth to an emailed rumor or negative ad. |
When I said that many people are receiving my state's Medicaid program just because of stupidity you tell me that my compassion is underwhelming. Now because they are saying stupid things about your candidate it's okay to lump rural America into one category and dismiss them all as people who are incapable of reading something other than the Enquirer?
Makes perfect sense. |
It does make perfect sense. The people in your state, or any state for that matter, that are receiving Medicaid, are indeed stupid and ignorant if they support McCain. His policies and programs will benefit the rich at the expense of the poor. |
Dude. Poor people have been voting Democratic for years and you know what?
They're still poor.
Edit: Nice deflection btw.
Message edited by author 2008-10-16 13:38:56. |
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10/16/2008 01:41:38 PM · #71 |
Ooops...! wrong thread :)
Message edited by author 2008-10-16 13:42:11. |
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10/16/2008 02:14:01 PM · #72 |
Originally posted by Phil:
Edit: Nice deflection btw. |
Phil, your comment seemed like a "deflection" to me. I don't know what was said to you about Medicare. If it was unfair, then then it was unfair. The point is a portion of the U.S. electorate has been documented at a McCain rally in all their ignorance and racism, and it's an ugly sight. Sure, a conservative reporting team could go to an Obama rally and record some pretty stupid comments, but I doubt they'd have those same underpinnings of racism coupled with holy spirit conviction.
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10/16/2008 02:25:42 PM · #73 |
Originally posted by Phil:
When I said that many people are receiving my state's Medicaid program just because of stupidity you tell me that my compassion is underwhelming. |
I said your compassion was underwhelming for your evident opinion that anyone should be denied basic healthcare. We can argue about who should pay and to what extent, but "just let 'em die" isn't an option for a compassionate person.
Originally posted by Phil:
it's okay to lump rural America into one category and dismiss them all as people who are incapable of reading something other than the Enquirer? |
Not all rural Americans fit such a stereotype, of course, and not all urban dwellers are well informed either, but red/blue states generally seem to match up with areas strong in either evangelical religion or higher education (I'd love to see it really mapped it out to find out if that's just my impression). I suspect bias could be related to fewer opportunities for multicultural interaction in rural areas.
Regardless, McCain's campaign strategy is running on names.It's what he knows. Without the name, McCain never would have been accepted to a prestigious military academy, he never would have graduated, he never would have helmed an aircraft carrier to Rio, he wouldn't have continued flying after crashing multiple planes, he wouldn't have been given medical treatment in Vietnam, he wouldn't have been elected to the senate, and he'd probably be in jail for corruption. Look at the Keating 5 scandal: the two "heroes," John Glenn and McCain, got off with reprimands. Without looking, can anyone name the other three senators who went to jail?
People tend to react favorably to familiar names and view the unfamiliar with suspicion. It has served McCain well throughout his life, and he's running on it now. Barack Hussein Obama sounds Muslim, which tends to be associated with all sorts of bad things these days. One strike against Obama. McCain points to Ayers as a terrorist, and because Obama knows Ayers, he must be a friend of terrorists. Not quite the "kill-innocent-people" terrorists most people imagine, but the name is effective (never mind that McCain himself directly supported the Contras, who arguably WERE the kill-innocent-people terrorists most people imagine). And what is the deal with people shouting "Traitor!" about Obama? Wouldn't that term more appropriately describe an American officer who gives military information to the enemy? Earmarks and pork barrel spending sound bad, so we'll use those names against Obama. Never mind that McCain personally pushed an aircraft carrier through congress as a lobbyist, never mind that his own running mate is associated with huge pork barrel projects, never mind that all earmarks combined pale in comparison to what we spend in Iraq, never mind that many of these projects are popular or that Obama sponsored "a bill to provide transparency and integrity in the earmark process." The name is bad, so we run with it... and the more gullible people of this country will eat this stuff up.
One great example was McCain pointing out repeatedly that Obama "requested $3 million for an overhead projector" at Chicago's Adler Planetarium. There was a lot more to it than that. First, calling a Zeiss starfield projector an "overhead projector" is like calling an Abrams tank an "automobile." It is the heart of any planetarium, in this case America's first planetarium, and the existing projector at this public educational institution was 40 years old, failing, and no longer supported with parts or service from the manufacturer. Nobody complains when millions are earmarked for the Smithsonian or National Zoo, and this project wasn't even funded, but it makes headlines. It's all about the names. Experience, hero, maverick, change, faith = good, and liberals, Bush, terrorism, big government, earmarks, Muslim, socialism = bad... whether they actually are or not. Suckers. |
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10/16/2008 02:39:00 PM · #74 |
Originally posted by Phil:
Originally posted by Spazmo99:
Originally posted by Phil:
Originally posted by scalvert:
Originally posted by citymars:
This morning a coworker sent me this scary youtube clip. |
The ignorance and bias of rural America is painfully staggering. It's like these people are incapable of reading past a headline from the National Enquirer or Faux News. I could excuse an computer illiterate like McCain, but with the sum of human knowledge available at your fingertips, it's not that hard to hit Snopes or Factcheck to see if there's a shred of truth to an emailed rumor or negative ad. |
When I said that many people are receiving my state's Medicaid program just because of stupidity you tell me that my compassion is underwhelming. Now because they are saying stupid things about your candidate it's okay to lump rural America into one category and dismiss them all as people who are incapable of reading something other than the Enquirer?
Makes perfect sense. |
It does make perfect sense. The people in your state, or any state for that matter, that are receiving Medicaid, are indeed stupid and ignorant if they support McCain. His policies and programs will benefit the rich at the expense of the poor. |
Dude. Poor people have been voting Democratic for years and you know what?
They're still poor.
Edit: Nice deflection btw. |
Dude. Nearly every rusty POS hillbilly wagon around here is plastered with U.S. flag stickers and "W" stickers from 2000 and 2004, so your generalization that the poor vote Dem, doesn't hold water.
I never claimed that the poor would suddenly made wealthy under Obama, I don't know where you get that idea.
The fact is that the poor are the ones who will lose under McCain and the rich are the ones who will benefit. It really is that simple. Someone needs to let McCain know that his iteration of "trickle down" economics is no less a recipe for making the poor suffer than it has under W's administration.
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10/16/2008 02:51:44 PM · #75 |
Originally posted by scalvert:
We can argue about who should pay and to what extent, but "just let 'em die" isn't an option for a compassionate person. |
Wow. Because I think we should use other measures to educate these people; train them to be productive members of society, if you will, I am simply saying to "let them die"?
Odd how you don't like it when someone else fabricates things to suit their agenda but you have no problem doing it yourself.
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