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10/11/2008 09:53:48 PM · #76 |
Originally posted by Mick:
... itâs just a âcool kidsâ list (probably heavily affected by ghost accounts.) |
If you know of (or strongly suspect) specific instances of people holding duplicate accounts or soliciting "friend voting," then please submit your information to the Site Council in a ticket. Otherwise, please refrain from impugning the integrity of every DPC voter with baseless accusations. |
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10/11/2008 10:48:55 PM · #77 |
Originally posted by GeneralE:
Originally posted by pixelpig:
I am one of the so-called talentless that is loosing interest in this site. I have never ribboned & I never will. I am tired of the assumption that post-processing is used to complensate for flaws in the original capture. That the only proper use of a camera is to take a perfect picture. This site is starting to feel very controlling & judgemental, not many opportunities for me to grow & learn. If I can toleration another gazillion picture-perfect landscapes, could you maybe tolerate one or two experimental shots? No? Well then, I'll be loosing interest & this site will be happy to loose a post-processing mediocre talentless point-&-shoot pretender. |
There is a small but strong movement to expand the range of what constitutes an "acceptable" photo -- see the Posthumous Ribbons and Blur threads for example.
I've worked hard for six years to divorce my photos from DPC scores -- I enter what I want and expect nothing ... if I get a couple of comments showing that the photo "reached" someone I am satisfied.
With any voting process, the larger the pool of voters the more the results will tend toward the center, with the "least-objectionable" photos ending up on top. So, as long as we have open voting, I think we're stuck with a certain type of winner. Yet, I think this is somewhat an overblown myth -- many worthwhile and deserving images ribbon.
I think in any group or club, people move on -- these days people move on from their jobs, homes, families. Mobility is now the norm, rather than the exception it was 40 years ago. Actually, I'm more surprised at the number of people who've stayed around here for years.
Perhaps as a way of giving some recognition to more members, in addition to the challenge winners, there could be a row of photos randomly drawn from a pool of non-ribboning member entries from that week's challenges, especially if they could be refreshed with each page load. |
True, there is a small but lively underground here, interested in exploring the world outside the box of documentary photography. That, & the side challenges are what attracted me to this site & motivated me to pay for a membership. Thanks for reminding me. I also look to this site for the interesting & useful comments I have received & read in the side challenges. [edit for typo]
Message edited by author 2008-10-11 23:00:24. |
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10/11/2008 11:15:00 PM · #78 |
Originally posted by GeneralE:
Originally posted by Mick:
... itâs just a âcool kidsâ list (probably heavily affected by ghost accounts.) |
If you know of (or strongly suspect) specific instances of people holding duplicate accounts or soliciting "friend voting," then please submit your information to the Site Council in a ticket. Otherwise, please refrain from impugning the integrity of every DPC voter with baseless accusations. |
I didn't say anything about duplicate accounts or friend voting. What I was talking about is the accounts (probably thousands of them) that people create, select a few favorites, then never return. IOW, people that are only active for a day or a week, then they're gone. There may be those that are duplicates or that are used for friend voting, but that's not what I said. On the other hand, it's interesting that you assumed that's what I meant.
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10/11/2008 11:36:47 PM · #79 |
Originally posted by Mick:
Originally posted by GeneralE:
Originally posted by Mick:
... itâs just a âcool kidsâ list (probably heavily affected by ghost accounts.) |
If you know of (or strongly suspect) specific instances of people holding duplicate accounts or soliciting "friend voting," then please submit your information to the Site Council in a ticket. Otherwise, please refrain from impugning the integrity of every DPC voter with baseless accusations. |
I didn't say anything about duplicate accounts or friend voting. What I was talking about is the accounts (probably thousands of them) that people create, select a few favorites, then never return. IOW, people that are only active for a day or a week, then they're gone. There may be those that are duplicates or that are used for friend voting, but that's not what I said. On the other hand, it's interesting that you assumed that's what I meant. |
He probably assumed that because that is what we consider a ghost account.
What you describe would be more accurately termed an inactive user. |
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10/11/2008 11:52:30 PM · #80 |
Originally posted by SandyP:
What an interesting thread.
One theory I have is that once photographers in this new technological millenium advance their photography and digital art talents, they get bored with the editing restrictions that can limit a very artistic photograher from turning a good photo into a fine art masterpiece.
I would love to see a forum where people could just submit their photos for contests, and who cares how they got their shot. The voters will usually punish photographers that go way over the top anyway. But it would open up a venue for those fabulous artistic photographers to be totally free in creating art that undoubted goes beyond the rules, and not have to worry about it.
Course, that's just a theory. I may be way off base. |
It's a good theory and I believe valid in alot of the cases of the people missing in action.
Expanding the rules for a once in a while treat has been discussed, and received by quite a bit of enthusiasm. Hell it was such a hot button that they even had a poll not long ago and what was the outcome? A minimal editing challenge was announced soon afterward. I agree that this in large part is a learning site and the ABC's of photography are very important. If that's all that's to be provided here, that's fine but don't be surprised when once loyal members start looking elsewhere for the rest of the alphabet. |
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10/11/2008 11:54:38 PM · #81 |
Originally posted by Qart:
Originally posted by SandyP:
What an interesting thread.
One theory I have is that once photographers in this new technological millenium advance their photography and digital art talents, they get bored with the editing restrictions that can limit a very artistic photograher from turning a good photo into a fine art masterpiece.
I would love to see a forum where people could just submit their photos for contests, and who cares how they got their shot. The voters will usually punish photographers that go way over the top anyway. But it would open up a venue for those fabulous artistic photographers to be totally free in creating art that undoubted goes beyond the rules, and not have to worry about it.
Course, that's just a theory. I may be way off base. |
It's a good theory and I believe valid in alot of the cases of the people missing in action.
Expanding the rules for a once in a while treat has been discussed, and received by quite a bit of enthusiasm. Hell it was such a hot button that they even had a poll not long ago and what was the outcome? A minimal editing challenge was announced soon afterward. I agree that this in large part is a learning site and the ABC's of photography are very important. If that's all that's to be provided here, that's fine but don't be surprised when once loyal members start looking elsewhere for the rest of the alphabet. |
I agree....if you coop a horse up for too long...eventually it busts out of the stable. BUT...if you let it stretch its legs once in a while...it is more content to stay and do as it is told.
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10/12/2008 12:24:08 AM · #82 |
Originally posted by karmat:
Originally posted by Mick:
I didn't say anything about duplicate accounts or friend voting. What I was talking about is the accounts (probably thousands of them) that people create, select a few favorites, then never return. |
He probably assumed that because that is what we consider a ghost account.
What you describe would be more accurately termed an inactive user. |
 Karmat is correct in this interpretation -- sorry for any confusion. |
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10/12/2008 12:27:27 AM · #83 |
| I think most of the great photogs that have left the site will eventually come back as soon as they google "Ken Rockwell"... |
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10/12/2008 12:28:28 AM · #84 |
| Why is it that Ken Rockwell is not a member? |
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10/12/2008 12:30:04 AM · #85 |
Originally posted by Jason_Cross:
Why is it that Ken Rockwell is not a member? |
I believe he actually showed up on that thread some time back, so he's at least a registered user... :)
Message edited by author 2008-10-12 00:30:12. |
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10/12/2008 12:31:00 AM · #86 |
Originally posted by DrAchoo:
Originally posted by Jason_Cross:
Why is it that Ken Rockwell is not a member? |
I believe he actually showed up on that thread some time back, so he's at least a registered user... :) |
But he couldn't handle the pressure of going up against the likes of Achoo! LOL!
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10/12/2008 12:31:41 AM · #87 |
| He is like an internet legend. What is up with his website though. It looks all hand coded in dreamweaver or something. He needs to hire a web guy. |
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10/12/2008 12:32:14 AM · #88 |
Originally posted by Judi:
Originally posted by DrAchoo:
Originally posted by Jason_Cross:
Why is it that Ken Rockwell is not a member? |
I believe he actually showed up on that thread some time back, so he's at least a registered user... :) |
But he couldn't handle the pressure of going up against the likes of Achoo! LOL! |
Does Dr. Achoo have a big lens too? lol |
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10/12/2008 12:36:32 AM · #89 |
Originally posted by Jason_Cross:
Originally posted by Judi:
Originally posted by DrAchoo:
Originally posted by Jason_Cross:
Why is it that Ken Rockwell is not a member? |
I believe he actually showed up on that thread some time back, so he's at least a registered user... :) |
But he couldn't handle the pressure of going up against the likes of Achoo! LOL! |
Does Dr. Achoo have a big lens too? lol |
He likes to think he does....but he seems to handle a small lens better.....!
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10/12/2008 12:51:30 AM · #90 |
Originally posted by Jason_Cross:
Does Dr. Achoo have a big lens too? lol |
Barely able to cover it up with a hat...
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10/12/2008 07:28:55 AM · #91 |
OK Back on track.
Someone mentioned a juried competition. This has great appeal for me for many reasons. First: No trolls. Second: Voting can be very tedious and people are voting less often. It would be a refreshing change. Third: It would be fun and different and that is what this site needs; excitement. Mix it up. Have Fun.
Caution: Negative people need not respond. I am not talking about changing everything over to a jury. I would simply like to try it once. So there is no need for objections or admonitions that it won't work.
Again I am providing a bare bones idea. The community must add the meat. How would it work? Any ideas are welcome. |
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10/12/2008 08:40:51 AM · #92 |
| But how would the jury be chosen? Would it be just SC? Or have Ribbon Hogs? Or people from outside the site altogether? |
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10/12/2008 09:00:35 AM · #93 |
| I think that this are only imaginative solutions. the problem is the photo quality and give a reason for the continuative partecipation. there are 2500 members? but in every challenge there are only 200 votes(when there are 200 votes....) this means that the real partecipation is low. |
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10/12/2008 09:44:31 AM · #94 |
Originally posted by pawdrix:
I think you guys are missing the point.
They leave because they no longer need competition to validate what they do and even at a higher level it pays no dividends if you are confident in what you do. They leave because they've grown away from what the site teaches. They are exploring concepts that go beyond sharpness, composition, horizon adjustment etc.
They no longer need or desire comments that focus on the rudiments of photography as it has little pertinence to their work.
Once you know and understand the rules it's more of a challenge (and fun) to break them AND this is no place to break the rules. Especially when so many members come here to learn them. |
I think there's a lot of truth in this. Also there's a general tendency to start working more in projects or repeated themes, exploring a subject to some depth, rather than shooting random new topics each week. There's only so much interest in shooting a 'one-off' image, without wanting to explore a subject further or push a bit deeper.
Message edited by author 2008-10-12 09:45:23.
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10/12/2008 10:29:05 AM · #95 |
| I have to comment, though I haven't read every response. Why have I left dpc, generally, though it is questionable whether I ever had talent? Mostly because I found that all that voting was really getting to me. I spent so much time going through contests that I began to lose entirely my interest in photography. I was also getting very depressed and agitated. I have been told that some folks may suffer lower melatonin levels if they are frequently involved in these sites. I am probably one of them. So I have pulled my support of the site for mental health reasons. Nothing can be done about that. I have reduced substantially all photo internet activities because there is more to life than taking pictures. There is such a thing as actually interacting with it. In addition I have been able to connect to a photo group that get together for photo trips. We are planning a NY City trip next month. We talk, we share, we eat lunch together, and we get together for some studio time. We also get together throughout the month. I bumped into one of my "peeps" on Tuesday as we both found ourselves at the same location taking pictures. That is way more fun than sitting behind a computer and voting. |
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10/12/2008 10:29:48 AM · #96 |
| I think if the heavy hitters want to leave, let them go. Like others have said, there is nothing for them to prove here. They already have the ribbons and the hero worship. What else do they need? |
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10/12/2008 10:41:57 AM · #97 |
Originally posted by DrAchoo:
Originally posted by Jason_Cross:
Does Dr. Achoo have a big lens too? lol |
Barely able to cover it up with a hat...
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Now we just need to make your website in old school HTML coding. Then you would be a Legend! |
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10/12/2008 11:24:51 AM · #98 |
Originally posted by JunieMoon:
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every virtual community always need of some "real" moment. it's normal that the real life is better than the virtual life and everyone of the dpc members (and users) have a real life. it's my impression that this discussion go in the wrong direction. for example now i go to lunch an icecream with my childreen and my wife and this is better that reply this 3D :) |
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10/12/2008 12:51:42 PM · #99 |
Originally posted by NikonJeb:
Originally posted by pawdrix:
eta: Also what kirbic said and to add when or if you turn professional it's not beneficial to have images floating around (with low scores and unflattering comments) that you are not proud of. If you've ever seen those embarrassing videos of Super Stars back when they were competing in Talent Shows...that might ring some bells. |
Originally posted by NikonJeb:
I don't necessarily think that's an issue..... |
Originally posted by pawdrix:
I know that to be true with about five x-members who's names are usually on those lists, of people who have left. I had a lengthy conversation with one the other night about this exact topic.
People have a tendency of telling people what they want to see and sometimes entirely miss what it is they are being shown. Honestly, it's a big problem. |
I disagree......first, you're pretty much saying that people don't know what they're looking at, correct?
And that if they do, they're off base with their comments?
If that's the case, then what would be the point of submitting at all?
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Exactly my point.
"If that's the case, then what would be the point of submitting at all?"
Some people no longer see the point in submitting AND they leave. Isn't that what we're trying to discuss or figure out here?
I've thought of leaving the site more than once and was seriously bummed out at the level/quality of comments I was receiving but found some solace in the Side Challenges and the realization that I have met some very cool people through the site BUT I had very little use for the rest. The Side Challenges seem to attract people who are more serious and wish to dig in further than the skimmers. A beautiful thing. Those people and their comments have more value to me and they don't try and fix images they spend to to appreciate them.
I'm also speaking factually on the reasons why some people have left or have lessened their participation on the site. I'm NOT guessing, why. I've had this discussion many times over beers, coffee and online with easily five (...and probably five more) people who are considered DPC heroes.
As far as "if you offer up an image for viewing, the burden of conveying your point rests entirely on you."
For starters, I do connect with who I wish to connect with and I have NO desire to create images that please the masses. I've sold images for some good bits of money and I do work professionally and those are the people who I have to please. If some folks only wish to educate themselves to a point and don't understand what it is that I do, I have no issue cutting my losses with them. What you're calling a burden I consider a compromise. Perhaps we are trying to appeal to two different worlds. I just want my world to be acknowledged and respected.
FWIW, I pretty much stick to the Side Challenges. There's a nice little cult following to those. I rarely post to the general public...except when I just got my D700 because I thought a few people might like those and wouldn't have seen them buried elsewhere. I avoid the Challenges like the plague.
"Train your population".....
Wow!!!! You know that was out loud, right????......8>)"
I have NO issue saying that one out loud because I believe as well as people here are trained they are equally being mistrained.
It goes along with the old adage "a little knowledge is a dangerous thing". Many here only study or research subjects and different genres to a limit and that's fine but it also limits their ability to see, understand and make intelligent, educated comments. Those folks are certainly not my audience and I don't feel anyway beholden to them.
You certainly don't have to agree with me and you can see or participate on the site any way you wish. You can give as much and weight to the comments you receive and take photographs accordingly but at the very least understand and appreciate how I view them and what they mean to me.
Message edited by author 2008-10-12 13:03:27. |
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10/12/2008 02:13:38 PM · #100 |
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