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03/11/2008 05:00:26 PM · #26 |
Originally posted by higgledy:
But then there's an issue with metering being off if the lighting is off....the constant on/off would just become an annoyance. |
True but at the big box store of your choice, you can find remote controlled switches (mostly @Christmas time for decorations)... Get and and a remote & you have it sorted :-)
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03/11/2008 05:02:12 PM · #27 |
| YOu see, with all these suggestions and tips, we could all start a book on the subject!! |
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03/11/2008 05:06:44 PM · #28 |
Originally posted by higgledy:
I have one of those clamp lamps and haven't gotten any decent results. Boo. I've also noticed they get VERY hot very quickly. Maybe I'm just using shitty bulbs. |
I will admit it here, If I haven't already.
Yeah I've got 4 SB-800 Strobes with PocketWizard Trancievers and 2 Quantam battery packs I got for Christamas.
I haven't used them enough.
No matter what you use, the more you experiment and use it the better your visual/setup/posing understanding will be.
I admit it, my only Blue-Ribbon shot was with a single, clamp lamp, clamped low. That gave the eerie effect they use in movies.
Practice, study magzines/movies, and improve.Ask Joey Lawrence about the value of movie lighting for stills.
I use "GE Spectrum", I think they imitate the outdoor color-balance of the lighting.
Message edited by author 2008-03-11 17:07:07. |
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03/11/2008 05:23:13 PM · #29 |
Speaking on this topic I was relaxing in bed the other morning and the sun was shining through the window quite nicely. I noticed that if I put my hand near my face it actually reflected quite a bit of light. The point being, there are a lot of options for reflectors and they need not involve a lot of money. My instructor for my last photography class actually used a sheet of coroplast (corrugated plastic) for the ceiling. The cost was cheap. (10 bucks I think).
oh and Prof? I am sure that with your 10 lenses and 4 cameras you probably have a lot of fun but keep in mind that not all of us can afford a $3500 light kit and most of us would definitely not call $3500 cheap even if we could afford it. Sorry to add to the bashing but while you are off racing your F1 race car, some of us are just happy to be in a soap box derby.
Message edited by author 2008-03-11 17:23:56.
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03/11/2008 07:50:05 PM · #30 |
Originally posted by rex:
Someone asks nicely for suggestions on cheap lighting and you come with this smart ass remark. I am half tempted to buy some cheap lights just to show you how wrong you are. |
What is 'cheap lighting'? To me it's something too shitty to do the job. Inexpesive is a different thing.
And what is expensive to you, to him, to me varies. To some a 40D is expensive, to others it's cheap.
The cheap way is to buy hot lights, find they don't work, get cheap ebay strobes, or strobist lights, and then find they don't work, and then finally get the proper lighting. And then you have spent all this money for nothing. Cheap way to go broke.
I speak from experience. I had hot lights - still got them, make me an offer. I got 2 from Harbor Freight and a nice set from Sears. Do the work? Yes. Are there issues? Yes. Are the issues severe enough that you'll want different lights, yes, indeed. You'll not want to shoot people with them - too hot, dangerous, power hungry, and you'll be at 1/30 at ISO 800 with 1000+ watts of lights, and you can't get/use much in the way of modifiers (they just don't make them, and the lights are so hot it's not safe to cover the lights).
Strobist method isn't all that cheap either. And you'll want a flash meter - it's really handy for setting up mutliple lights, mixing flash and ambient, etc. For your own home use you may have 30 minutes to dial things in, but work with a model or client and you're credibility starts to go south real fast and the "moment" will be gone. For the strobist you'll need 2 lights, stands, batteries, adapters to get the lights on the stands and the umbrella mounts and umbrellas. And when you're all done the lights are weak - I've been there and done that too. It works for some people, some of the time for some things. So will a cell phone camera or a pinhole camera, etc. The right tool for the job makes for a better job done faster.
You don't always need wireless triggers. Put a 3x4 foot softbox on light and it's built in sensor won't see the other lights so it won't trip. So run a cord. Run many cords. Cords fall out, break, get loose - are not reliable. They are frustrating. A cord is cheap. 3 or 4 and adapters and long cords - the costs add up. Skip this step and just go wireless. Your anger management team will thank you.
So why would I suggest a ghetto method of lighting when I know it's not gonna be satisfactory? I may be blunt, but I do not lie, mislead or give false hope. I did offer a low cost, reliable, solution. Sometimes there isn't a 10c way to do a $2 job.
Message edited by author 2008-03-11 19:56:01.
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03/11/2008 08:11:13 PM · #31 |
| nah sorry sweets, you still came over as snarky in your first post |
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03/11/2008 08:11:43 PM · #32 |
A window can be a good start. Find one with a good view of the sky but without the sun streaming in.
These are just window light:
   
Or under a porch:
You can add some sort of reflector for some fill too - either a 'fancy' $30 5-in-1 reflector from a camera store, or a $2 sheet of white foamcore from Walmart:
Gold bounce or white board
 
You can do a lot with desk/accent lamps too:
 
Accent lamp and reflector
I'm not as fancy as the 'prof'. You can spend as much or as little as you like. Plenty of photographers have made entire careers without bringing a light source with them. The biggest thing is to learn to see the light that is there. Learn to recognise the light you are looking for, how to find it, how to modify it. Otherwise you'll buy a load of gear, set it up at 45 degree angles to your subject and be no better off than when you started, just with less money. Learn to see how sunlight bounces off a wall or wraps around a scene. Notice how the colour changes through the day or as it interacts with things that it bounces from. Get sensitive to that and you can find light to work with anywhere.
If you do that, you can find light like this, out side, on a bright, cloudless sunny day
or understand how to go from this to this, without changing or adding any light sources
 
There's nothing wrong at all with working with studio lights, strobes and elaborate lighting setups. But most people do that to recreate light that's just bouncing around in front of their nose. Once you can see it, it's everywhere. Then you can start recreating it with gear or building your own.
Then you can work out how to double light someone from both sides using two buildings and the sun
Message edited by author 2008-03-11 20:20:06.
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03/11/2008 08:13:12 PM · #33 |
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03/11/2008 08:13:48 PM · #34 |
Originally posted by Gordon:
You can spend as much or as little as you like. Plenty of photographers have made entire careers without bringing a light source with them. |
Exactly.
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03/11/2008 08:16:34 PM · #35 |
OK these where done with a normal flashlight, black cone
[thumb]630184[/thumb]
oh and the black cone is made out of cardboard from WalMart. 99c, the flashlight 3.00,
so you can achieve good lighting without having expensive stuff!
Message edited by author 2008-03-11 20:18:17. |
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03/11/2008 08:26:20 PM · #36 |
Originally posted by JulietNN:
nah sorry sweets, you still came over as snarky in your first post |
Yep. So what? I am not your mother, I am the voice of experience. You can listen and learn from my mistakes, or go make your own. It's your time, money and you'll do what you want. BUt since the question was asked on a forum, I thought the OP wanted an answer not reassurance that his flashlight was gonna give him awesome images for $1.89.
You want to be told only what you want to hear? Then go see your mother and she'll make you feel better. Oh, unless she tells you to eat all your veggies, clean your plate, pick up your clothes and don't stay out too late.
Is my answer wrong? No. It's just not what some people want to hear. So then it's my tone, or some such that gets addressed.
Perhaps I'll go to DPC confession. Ever been there? Lots of people have. I'll go do 10 "Great Pic!" and 20 "Love this image dude" comments to make everyone feel the love. OK?
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03/11/2008 08:30:34 PM · #37 |
Originally posted by Prof_Fate:
Originally posted by JulietNN:
nah sorry sweets, you still came over as snarky in your first post |
Yep. So what? I am not your mother, I am the voice of experience. You can listen and learn from my mistakes, or go make your own. It's your time, money and you'll do what you want. BUt since the question was asked on a forum, I thought the OP wanted an answer not reassurance that his flashlight was gonna give him awesome images for $1.89. |
You can do okay with a $1.89 flashlight.
The OP hasn't even mentioned what subject(s) he wants to shoot and you think he needs 4 monolights. Dean Collins is no doubt spinning in his grave.
Message edited by author 2008-03-11 20:42:13.
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03/11/2008 08:38:35 PM · #38 |
| All right Prof, what part of NO MONEY RIGHT NOW, do you NOT UNDERSTAND |
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03/11/2008 08:40:32 PM · #39 |
Originally posted by Prof_Fate:
$3500 should do it.
Can you do it for less? Yeah, BUT it's like cutting all your grass with a pair of scissors, it won't be any fun. |
But why stop there? If you look at the medium-level pros (Chase Jarvis types) or high-end pros (Annie Leibovitz types); They have single lights over that $ figure and have LOT$ of them.... with an crowd following them to carry gear. Ya gota stop somewhere :-)
Yeah.... Hot lights are a pain but if that's all you can pay then you play there. In some ways you might learn better from seeing the light so to speak :-).
The strobist method(cheaper manual flashes) is great for some things and bad for others (I am learning a lot from going thru that stuff so I don't see any loss personally). Sure stands & brollies are not zip but they ain't a bank breaker either. Most don't use meters and some don't appear to need it at all based on the images.
Next step up is probably the prop strobes (eTTL, iTTL, whatever). In some scenarios they are better and others worse.... they are generally more powerful strobes then the older manual strobist path but you can use them in that mode also. As you say, this is not necessarily cheaper the studio strobes but certainly easier on the move & with no electricity.
If you are in a fixed location then the studio strobes you mention are great... I would guess they sux to move around but just my guess.... I find it easier to pack a few battery powered strobes.
Wireless vs. cable... each to their own. I use wireless, cable & eTTL in different scenarios. Can certainly be had for less then $3500....
Reflectors e.t.c. can be very cheap... stick some printer paper together if necessary or unroll the tin-foil :-)
Just whatever you pick.... enjoy & play around... stuff to learn and images to make.... |
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03/11/2008 09:07:01 PM · #40 |
On the cheap, just starting to learn how to light, Home Depot clamp lights work. They ain't pretty and they ain't powerful, but they work. Get GE daylight balanced bulbs and the funny color cast becomes less of an issue; or get the flo blubs that don't get so hot and set a manual white balance. For posed studio work, they'll get you by.
I subscribe to the Strobist route, myself. Hotshoe strobes, used on off-camera lightstands are the best way, at least for me. Portable, not super expensive, and effective. I've yet to see a situation that they can't handle, assuming that you A) have a couple of them and B) know how to use them to their fullest.
If you decide you have to get a flash, go to Ritz camera and check out the Quantaray flashes. My first flash was a basic Quantaray, with a bounce/swivel head. It had a light meter on the front and the option to leave it exposed, or to slide one or two filters over it to dim the ambient reading - a primitive method of adjusting the output. It was cheap and basic and did the job until I could afford better.
A lot of people around here (and in general) get too caught up in an equipment fetish. A great photographer with a cell phone can take a better photo than a dolt with a EOS 1Ds and L-glass. You want lighting on the cheap? Do it. Work with window light, add a few lamps or clamp lights to it, use some poster-board reflectors, and if you practice at it, you'll get results.
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03/12/2008 02:25:54 AM · #41 |
In case you're wondering what you can achieve, this was lit by my clamp lamps with compact fluorescents:
Here are some others:
   
  
They don't get too hot (I have a 150W-equivalent).
I also love big windows:
 
I've also used laptops and computer screens.
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03/12/2008 11:18:29 AM · #42 |
When I posted last night, I forgot to mention using other cameras that have self-timers. I own two point-and-shoots, and they work pretty well as off-camera flashes. It does take a bit of timing, but the results can be good. For diffusers, I typically just tape a piece of tissue over the flash. Keeping it a couple inches from the flash will diffuse it better.
 
Message edited by author 2008-03-12 11:35:27.
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03/12/2008 12:30:08 PM · #43 |
Originally posted by rex:
Ebay
I know you said NO Money but for $115.99 shipped that is cheap. I can't guarantee it will work though. |
ok...looking at something like this, I have Nikon D50 and SB600...do these lights work with this setup? or do I need other equipment to fire them. I have continuous lights but I'd like to get a set of strobes...but can't afford the Alien Bees....
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03/14/2008 08:06:09 PM · #44 |
Ok, I'll clarify my post heading since there's been debate.
I simply mean to say that I can't afford set-ups for hundreds of dollars (as I predict most here probably cannot). As I am not a professional photographer and do not generate any income from it, I am dropping my own personal funds for equipment. It was merely meant to be a query on other alternatives whether it be natural lighting, hardware store purchased lighting or just fun tricks. Thanks for your responses and posted images.
And as a response to Prof_fate and his apparent ire with my question: dude, I'm not trying to steal your thunder or the way in which you make your money. We don't all have the same resources. We can all agree that it helps to have some guidance when learning new things and ways in which to execute them efficiently. Don't be so offended next time. I was asking a basic question and I assumed that users here could provide me with some useful information. |
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03/14/2008 08:53:49 PM · #45 |
Originally posted by higgledy:
Ok, I'll clarify my post heading since there's been debate.
I simply mean to say that I can't afford set-ups for hundreds of dollars (as I predict most here probably cannot).
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again....Home Depot is the poor mans lighting source.....or use the Sun.
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03/14/2008 09:46:50 PM · #46 |
With your camera, you have a lot of options. ANY light source can be used effectively if you can get the lights bright enough for a decent exposure. A 50mm f/1.8 lens helps tremendously if you can swing the $75 or so. A few examples, all shot with a Rebel 300D and no studio lights:
Natural window light:
  
Overhead track lights (and the obvious lamp in the background):
Home Depot clamp-on lamp and shiny gold posterboard:
A desk lamp:
IMO, your best bet for a really cheap "studio" would be 2 or 3 large clamp-on lamps, the brightest CF bulbs you can find, and a couple sheets of posterboard or foam core. Those two links would get you a nice 3-light setup for less than $70. The CF bulbs will stay cool, save energy and last a long time. You can change the distance or vary the bulb wattage to control the strength of the lights, and you could use tissue paper as a diffuser for softer light or bounce it off the posterboard. Set a custom white balance (or shoot RAW) and you're all set!
Message edited by author 2008-03-14 21:49:51. |
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03/18/2008 09:30:17 AM · #47 |
Originally posted by dassilem:
Originally posted by rex:
Ebay
I know you said NO Money but for $115.99 shipped that is cheap. I can't guarantee it will work though. |
ok...looking at something like this, I have Nikon D50 and SB600...do these lights work with this setup? or do I need other equipment to fire them. I have continuous lights but I'd like to get a set of strobes...but can't afford the Alien Bees.... |
help with technical terms... slave, sync cord, etc....I'm guessing that a sync cord hooks into the hotshoe and plugs into the lights to fire? what does slave mean?
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04/03/2008 06:01:22 PM · #48 |
Originally posted by rex:
Ebay
I know you said NO Money but for $115.99 shipped that is cheap. I can't guarantee it will work though. |
As an update to this thread and the lights I bought to prove a point. I had a model over yesterday and took a few shots with these lights.
[thumb]665271[/thumb]
[thumb]665346[/thumb] [thumb]665347[/thumb]
Both shots are taken with the umbrellas being used as shoot through in front of the model at a 45° angle on both sides. That is all the light used. Only editing is to resize and post here. I am no professional but the lighting is very nice to me and for the money I would say these lights are well worth it.
Message edited by author 2008-04-03 18:02:03.
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