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06/27/2007 07:21:48 PM · #51 |
Originally posted by vxpra:
Using this same logic I can say "Clearly since these kids had a hidden camera they intended to provoke an incident with the police." |
You could say that, but since it doesn't appear to have been hidden, and wasn't even present for the initial problem, you'd be wrong.
The officer, on the other hand, had no interest in the kid with the cell phone camera until he was made aware of the fact that he'd been caught on camera brutalizing a teenager. |
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06/27/2007 07:32:08 PM · #52 |
Originally posted by MikeJ:
That's right, hammer the cops, get them fired, make it so they can't do their jobs and the next time one comes up against a 13 year old girl and tries to reason with her and play "nice" and she sticks a knife in his gut or pulls out a homemade single shot pistol and shoots him in the face, you probably will still say he deserved it.
It's parents with these same kinds of attitudes that won't take responsibility for their kids that create situations like this where kids think they can do anything they want and not face the conciquences.
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What a load of crap. Police are trained and instructed to deal with the situation peacefully, without violence. Violence is always the last resort. Period. I've known officers, sheriffs, and deputies who all say the same thing. You don't put a teenager in a chokehold simply because she's walking away from you.
Taking responsibility for your child has nothing to do with this situation, and especially has nothing to do with the public being outraged at a scene of police brutality.
Originally posted by MikeJ:
Yes, there are bad cops out there (there are bad humans in life)... you know why there are more bad and less good ones? Because it's people like most of you that have forced the good cops to hang it up because they can't do their job and because of that hey are more likely to get hurt or killed or some other innocent will. It's the same reason why we are seeing fewer and fewer good teachers... the hassles they have to put up with make the job just not worth it.
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Again, BS. No one is restricting an officer from using adequate force to deal with a situation. The issue is that he went far above and beyond the force required and that the officer is the one who escalated the level of force in that encounter, not the skateboarders. That was irresponsible and against everything they are trained to do. |
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06/27/2007 07:32:58 PM · #53 |
Originally posted by MikeJ:
That's right, hammer the cops, get them fired, make it so they can't do their jobs and the next time one comes up against a 13 year old girl and tries to reason with her and play "nice" and she sticks a knife in his gut or pulls out a homemade single shot pistol and shoots him in the face, you probably will still say he deserved it. |
That's not too dramatic. I guess. We can equally apply your outrage in the reverse to equally silly effect, such as, "That's right, beat those thirteen year old girls down, arrest them, make it so that they can't even walk the streets, and the next time one comes up against a forty-five year old man with a gun and a job and tries to reason with him and explain she was just using her skateboard he pulls his gun out and blows off her head or tases her, you probably will say she deserved it." Pretty stupid huh?
No more excuses for police thinking they're above the law.
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06/27/2007 07:41:49 PM · #54 |
Originally posted by chimericvisions:
Originally posted by vxpra:
Using this same logic I can say "Clearly since these kids had a hidden camera they intended to provoke an incident with the police." |
You could say that, but since it doesn't appear to have been hidden, and wasn't even present for the initial problem, you'd be wrong.
The officer, on the other hand, had no interest in the kid with the cell phone camera until he was made aware of the fact that he'd been caught on camera brutalizing a teenager. |
Okay, let me rephrase
Clearly since these kids had a video camera they intended to provoke an incident.
I don't know otherwise since I don't know what exactly happened when they decided to bring the camera. Just like you don't know (and neither do I), from this video, exactly happened prior to the picture of the kid being choked by the cop. Maybe the kid punched the cop, maybe he tried to struggle his way out of the situation (or resist) and this was the fastest and or safest way for the officer to bring the situation under control.
I am not defending the actions of the officer, nor am I defending the skate boarders.
The officer made multiple mistakes from my point of view...
1) He lost control of the situation
2) He lost control of his prisoner when he ran after the guy with the camera phone.
3) He lost control of himself.
The skate boarders made multiple mistakes
1) Taunting the officer and driving up the tension in the situation (ie. he is apparently a lone officer whose backup has not yet arrived and he is put in a position where those around him- the skateboarders are potentially hostile towards him)
2) Resisting and interfering with the officer. As has been pointed out, regardless if the skateboarders were to be found guilty of anything prior to the resisting, resisting arrest is a seperate offense.
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06/27/2007 07:41:58 PM · #55 |
Originally posted by chimericvisions:
...You don't put a teenager in a chokehold simply because she's walking away from you. |
I can't watch the video again cause work blocks that site, but I seem to remember she wasn't put into a choke hold instantly. He told her to sit down and she kept walking, the other cop grabbed her while the first cop was getting another guy. She resisted with cop #2 so he pushed her back at cop #1 who grabbed her around the neck. Common sense tells you to not resist when a cop askes tells you to do something. 99.9999% of the time if you cooperate things are gonna go much much smoother and possibly even trouble avoided. I truly believe the kids had attitudes and just felt they weren't doing anything wrong even if they were.
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06/27/2007 07:44:20 PM · #56 |
Originally posted by chimericvisions:
...You don't put a teenager in a chokehold simply because she's walking away from you. |
The defense lacks any evidence prior to the chokehold. So who says she was walking away. Whats not to say she didnt strike with two fists to the shoulders and run away like little girls do? |
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06/27/2007 07:53:11 PM · #57 |
Originally posted by RainMotorsports:
Originally posted by chimericvisions:
...You don't put a teenager in a chokehold simply because she's walking away from you. |
The defense lacks any evidence prior to the chokehold. So who says she was walking away. Whats not to say she didnt strike with two fists to the shoulders and run away like little girls do? |
No... this occurence is in the middle of the video. He starts yelling at her when she bends over to talk to her friend and tells her to sit down. She says no, starts to walk away quickly, then he yells "you're under arrest, too", runs her down, and puts her in a choke hold.
The second officer refused to get involved in any way - even when the girl escaped the chokehold (because this ass was trying to choke-control two people at once), he watched her run away and ignored her. |
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06/27/2007 07:54:34 PM · #58 |
Originally posted by sabphoto:
I can't watch the video again cause work blocks that site, but I seem to remember she wasn't put into a choke hold instantly. He told her to sit down and she kept walking, the other cop grabbed her while the first cop was getting another guy. She resisted with cop #2 so he pushed her back at cop #1 who grabbed her around the neck. Common sense tells you to not resist when a cop askes tells you to do something. 99.9999% of the time if you cooperate things are gonna go much much smoother and possibly even trouble avoided. I truly believe the kids had attitudes and just felt they weren't doing anything wrong even if they were. |
The second officer refused to get involved in the situation involving the girl. As I noted in the response to RainMotorsports, he clearly allowed her to run away when she escaped the officer's hold. |
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06/27/2007 07:56:28 PM · #59 |
Originally posted by chimericvisions:
Originally posted by RainMotorsports:
Originally posted by chimericvisions:
...You don't put a teenager in a chokehold simply because she's walking away from you. |
The defense lacks any evidence prior to the chokehold. So who says she was walking away. Whats not to say she didnt strike with two fists to the shoulders and run away like little girls do? |
No... this occurence is in the middle of the video. He starts yelling at her when she bends over to talk to her friend and tells her to sit down. She says no, starts to walk away quickly, then he yells "you're under arrest, too", runs her down, and puts her in a choke hold.
The second officer refused to get involved in any way - even when the girl escaped the chokehold (because this ass was trying to choke-control two people at once), he watched her run away and ignored her. |
Okay i did fail to watch the whole thing due to the point it started out. |
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06/27/2007 08:29:22 PM · #60 |
Originally posted by vxpra:
Clearly since these kids had a video camera they intended to provoke an incident.
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They may have just been recording thier stunts and stuff.
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06/27/2007 08:38:21 PM · #61 |
| All I know is Andy Griffith could have handled it peacefully! lol |
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06/27/2007 08:38:23 PM · #62 |
*Art jumps back in to slap everyone in the thread in the back of the head*
This type of thing is, and always has been a two sided issue with both sides having fairly equal, but different points. Kids should obey the law, not harass cops, do what they are told by the police and complain to the proper authorities at the proper time about perceived abuses. Cops should not lose control when things get heated. |
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06/27/2007 08:52:33 PM · #63 |
I agree that the force may have been over the top, but we don't really know the whole story. It's actually very easy to avoid getting roughed up by the cops.
1. Don't break the law.
2. If you do break the law and get caught, don't run.
3. Do what the officer tells you to do. |
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06/27/2007 09:04:07 PM · #64 |
Originally posted by RayEthier:
Originally posted by TCGuru:
No matter what, he was way out of line... not like they had guns or knives, they are kids. |
Playing the Devil's advocate here... what would your reaction be if you called the police complaining about kids harassing you and defacing your properthy and they responded by saying " Well...it's not like they have guns or knives, they are kids."
It is quite easy to cast aspersions on the intents and actions of an individuals when things are viewed in isolation, without the benefit of the whole pletora of informations that may be available.
Similarly, would we applaud nonfeasance on the part of the officer if he had simply cast a blind eye and some unfortunate pedestrian had been injured or maimed by these young skateboarders.
Sorry, but there are venues and competent people whose duty is to review such undertakings, and render judgements as to the propriety of police activities, and I would defer the decision making process to them.
Ray |
First off, the kid that said, "You could have talked to us about it first." sums it up for me. I would ask them to stop first. Which is what the cop should have done. If they refused, then it would be grounds for more action. I never said turn a blind eye. However, that action should NOT include a headlock on a 13 year old that is UNARMED.
Even if they had broken a window, it's not like I couldn't get it replaced. Sure, I would be angry, but those kids did not deserve to be manhandled like that. Period. |
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06/27/2007 09:07:18 PM · #65 |
Originally posted by Art Roflmao:
Kids should ... not harass cops ... |
I don't even think that's possible. With all the "Sir"s and "Please"s and so forth, they were hardly harrassing the cops, in this case. The one kid went batshit when the girl was choked and Officer Orangutan had a pubescent adolescent in each elbow crick, but what thirteen-year-old can be expected to keep it together when confronted with violence of a kind he's probably never seen before in real life? And while we're at it, who are the more responsible parties here, the cops on steroids tripping on the power imbalance, or the gaggle of kids with exactly thirteen years of life experience? |
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06/27/2007 09:07:47 PM · #66 |
Originally posted by jahoward:
I agree that the force may have been over the top, but we don't really know the whole story. It's actually very easy to avoid getting roughed up by the cops.
1. Don't break the law.
2. If you do break the law and get caught, don't run.
3. Do what the officer tells you to do. |
Think I'll stop reading this thread now - nuff said!
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06/27/2007 09:10:15 PM · #67 |
Originally posted by Louis:
Originally posted by Art Roflmao:
Kids should ... not harass cops ... |
I don't even think that's possible. With all the "Sir"s and "Please"s and so forth, they were hardly harrassing the cops, in this case. The one kid went batshit when the girl was choked and Officer Orangutan had a pubescent adolescent in each elbow crick, but what thirteen-year-old can be expected to keep it together when confronted with violence of a kind he's probably never seen before in real life? And while we're at it, who are the more responsible parties here, the cops on steroids tripping on the power imbalance, or the gaggle of kids with exactly thirteen years of life experience? |
Yep!! Thank you. Must agree 100%
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06/27/2007 09:50:01 PM · #68 |
Originally posted by vxpra:
Originally posted by chimericvisions:
Originally posted by vxpra:
Using this same logic I can say "Clearly since these kids had a hidden camera they intended to provoke an incident with the police." |
You could say that, but since it doesn't appear to have been hidden, and wasn't even present for the initial problem, you'd be wrong.
The officer, on the other hand, had no interest in the kid with the cell phone camera until he was made aware of the fact that he'd been caught on camera brutalizing a teenager. |
Okay, let me rephrase
Clearly since these kids had a video camera they intended to provoke an incident.
I don't know otherwise since I don't know what exactly happened when they decided to bring the camera. Just like you don't know (and neither do I), from this video, exactly happened prior to the picture of the kid being choked by the cop. Maybe the kid punched the cop, maybe he tried to struggle his way out of the situation (or resist) and this was the fastest and or safest way for the officer to bring the situation under control.
I am not defending the actions of the officer, nor am I defending the skate boarders.
The officer made multiple mistakes from my point of view...
1) He lost control of the situation
2) He lost control of his prisoner when he ran after the guy with the camera phone.
3) He lost control of himself.
The skate boarders made multiple mistakes
1) Taunting the officer and driving up the tension in the situation (ie. he is apparently a lone officer whose backup has not yet arrived and he is put in a position where those around him- the skateboarders are potentially hostile towards him)
2) Resisting and interfering with the officer. As has been pointed out, regardless if the skateboarders were to be found guilty of anything prior to the resisting, resisting arrest is a seperate offense. |
Okay lets get this straight, the video camera has a fisheye on it, in the skating community fisheyes are used for filming skating videos because they make your tricks "sicker" make it look like bigger air and all that jazz. They were just out trying to skateboard, not trying to stir shit up with police.
They might have been resisting arrest, but some of them weren't doing anything bad and they tried walking away, the officer had no right to tackle them down like he did. Maybe the cop was making up his own laws in his head to tackle them? |
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06/27/2007 09:57:53 PM · #69 |
I changed my mind... It has all been said before and it is not about to change.
Ray
Message edited by author 2007-06-27 22:03:42. |
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06/27/2007 10:00:54 PM · #70 |
I bet this happens much more than you think. This is crazy. If there was a real Captain on the force he'd knock some heads and put perspective into these Bike cops. Catch bad guys, not kids.
All I can say is, if that was my kid on the video, that cop would have to answer to me.
Cops and kids don't mix. |
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06/27/2007 10:05:13 PM · #71 |
Originally posted by blindjustice:
All I can say is, if that was my kid on the video, that cop would have to answer to me. |
Best you let him answer to your lawyer... you might not like his response to you.
Ray |
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06/27/2007 10:06:19 PM · #72 |
This was posted as a comment from the news website and i agree with it 100%
Wow, I am shocked at how many people are supporting this psycho police officer who has no business wearing a uniform.
Everyone of you who said the kids skateboarding broke the law (criminals) and deserve what they got please answer this question; While driving a motorized vehicle have you ever: rolled a stop sign, made an illegal turn, exceeded the posted maximum speed limit. IF you said yes to any of these questions you are a lawbreaker and a police officer would be justified to treat you just like these kids in the future
Bunch of friggin hypocrites - Let me guess, Hot Springs is in the Bible belt and all you people supporting this dirty cop are fine Church going Christians |
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06/27/2007 10:09:21 PM · #73 |
Originally posted by Louis:
the gaggle of kids with exactly thirteen years of life experience? |
The guy who bolted and ran from the cop was 19. Just setting the record straight :) |
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06/27/2007 10:14:57 PM · #74 |
| i think as long as the cops do their jobs and keep peace and order then it doesn't really matter if they cross the line once awhile when upholding the law. just my opinion. i'd rather have this than having to live in a dangerous neighborhood. sometimes it takes a bit of violence to fight violence. |
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06/27/2007 10:19:23 PM · #75 |
Originally posted by crayon:
i think as long as the cops do their jobs and keep peace and order then it doesn't really matter if they cross the line once awhile when upholding the law. just my opinion. i'd rather have this than having to live in a dangerous neighborhood. sometimes it takes a bit of violence to fight violence. |
....are you implying skateboarding is violent....?
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