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DPChallenge Forums >> General Discussion >> cops like this get to me....
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06/28/2007 01:05:52 AM · #101
BY the way, if anyone checked out the "Go Ride Your Skateboard Day" website, here's one of the "Highlights" that they list on the site from last year:

"Skatepark of Tampa, Tampa, FL: "...I’m not sure what type of impression we made, but for better or worse we certainly made an impression. We were all skateboarders getting together in a group to skate in Downtown Tampa like no one else ever has. That was history right there and I’m proud of every single one of the guys there for being a part of it. I’ll leave you with a quote from one of the cops while we were cuffed. He said, "It’s guys like you that give skateboarders a bad name." If he only knew… Thank you. See you next year... right?"
--Ryan Clements"

It's funny that the guys who were "so concerned" about their friend didn't talk about anything but "He's arresting him for skateboarding!" They weren't worried about their friend's welfare at all and intentionally inflamed the situation because it would be "cool."

Officer Bonehead played right into their hands. The kids have their 15-Seconds of You-Tube fame and cult-hero status in the skateboarding world. America, the Land Of Opportunity!!! :)
06/28/2007 01:11:30 AM · #102
Just a few things i noticed about the vid. When the bald cop was busy choking the girl, the kid who was yelling at him wasn't "pushed from behind". You will notice that this video has been edited(all of a sudden another cop is there "helping" to control things.) But anyways he is wearing a bike helment. He was busy holding another skater, and then makes a grab for the kid yelling. He pulles the kid toward the bald cop, and the baldy then tries to choke both at the same time but loses the girl. Anyways that's what i saw. I'm tired and maybe wrong. The other thing i noticed was when the cop said "You see that blood on my knee? That's battery!", seems like a tiny scratch now and then would come with the job description of a cop. A-hole
06/28/2007 05:09:23 AM · #103
Originally posted by Blue Moon:

I heard one of the officer speak into his radio and say that this either appeared to be “a terrorist attack or a school project.”…I had to stop myself from laughing at that.

Being a teenager is a form of terrorism too.
06/28/2007 06:45:32 AM · #104
There was a report then coming up on CNN that said "why the video may not be telling the whole truth".
I didn't watch the report though.
Sorry I couldn't be of any more help :-)
06/28/2007 09:47:56 AM · #105
Originally posted by noisemaker:

Canada's law enforment seems alot more controlled, you never hear about any of this kind of stuff happening up here.

Oh boy, is that ever wrong. Just a few examples off the top of my head include Craig Brumell, the police union boss, trying to turn Toronto into a mini police state, the Brampton cops partying loudly into the wee hours of the morning, then chasing and beating up a guy who was filming them, the Saskatchewan RCMP officers who would routinely pick up aboriginals in the city, then dump in the prairie, until a teenager froze to death, the Toronto cops who, for no discernable reason, attacked a semi-conscious homeless person in a stairwell and beat him to a pulp, then got back in their squad car and drove off, the dozens and dozens of Toronto cops who protested at city hall in uniform in direct violation of the chief's order (also a police state action), the undercover Toronto detectives accused of stealing drugs and drug money from criminals, then threatening to jail and beat up those who knew... this is just from memory of the news stories.

There is no police force on the face of the planet that is incorruptible.
06/28/2007 10:04:07 AM · #106
To all those who think the cop was justified in his actions... What would you think if that was your 13 year old daughter getting put into a choke hold by a huge adult male officer?

Besides that cops always give kids on skateboards trouble in every city everywhere. They get threatened with arrests everytime they try to skate whether in a parking lot away from people or on the street etc... The only way they avoid stupid trouble by power engourged police is to run away.

One thing on the fact that someone said "most citys have skateparks". This is kind of true. Just having a skatepark isn't enough, they need to be maintained. In Burlington VT where I live, we have a skatepark in a nice spot down by Lake Champlain. At one time this park was so run down it was useless to skaters. Bolts in the ramp were no longer flush, the copings were rusty. This made the park more dangerous and unskateable. The town kept using the argument that kids do have a place to go, but in reality that park was just used by teens to go drink and smoke weed because it was secluded, no skaters or anyone to come and bother them. It got run down even more, more drinking and drugs, more vandalism etc... and the skate kids were back getting harrassed on the street by cops.

06/28/2007 10:13:32 AM · #107
mouthy kids,pushy steroid headed cops,what would you expect?Disneyland? i think not...both sides in this video are bad examples of how to act for teens and cops IMHO
06/28/2007 10:21:31 AM · #108
Here are a few of the things that made headlines around here the past few years.

Milwaukee cops partying in a bar 2 hours after legal operation hours. This was discovered when neighbors complained about the car surfing and loud people outside the bar. Turns out the car surfers were also Milwaukee's finest setting another great example.

Chicago, Off Duty officer beats up female bartender when she refuses to serve his drunk ass anymore booze.

Milwaukee officer is in country illegally. yes a border hopper becomes a copper. No one bothers to double check his background or they would have noticed he had no real legal docs proving his citizenship. Just give him a gun and a badge and send him out to arrest legal citizens.

Makes me wonder how many other officers have been hired without the proper background checks etc...

The Cheifs and Captains should be held responsible for the patrol officers actions, They choose to hire these guys they supervise these guys they need to be responsible every bit as much as the kids parents should be held responsible for their minor childrens actions.

9 out of 10 times when They do punish an officer for something you will read in the paper the officer has been suspended WITH PAY!!!! Now that is really going to punish them,. Tell them don't come into work except on fridays, you can come in and get your paycheck.

Edit to add this link

what the hell one more

Originally posted by Louis:

Originally posted by noisemaker:

Canada's law enforment seems alot more controlled, you never hear about any of this kind of stuff happening up here.

Oh boy, is that ever wrong. Just a few examples off the top of my head include Craig Brumell, the police union boss, trying to turn Toronto into a mini police state, the Brampton cops partying loudly into the wee hours of the morning, then chasing and beating up a guy who was filming them, the Saskatchewan RCMP officers who would routinely pick up aboriginals in the city, then dump in the prairie, until a teenager froze to death, the Toronto cops who, for no discernable reason, attacked a semi-conscious homeless person in a stairwell and beat him to a pulp, then got back in their squad car and drove off, the dozens and dozens of Toronto cops who protested at city hall in uniform in direct violation of the chief's order (also a police state action), the undercover Toronto detectives accused of stealing drugs and drug money from criminals, then threatening to jail and beat up those who knew... this is just from memory of the news stories.

There is no police force on the face of the planet that is incorruptible.


Message edited by author 2007-06-28 10:38:05.
06/28/2007 10:49:32 AM · #109
Apparently this is 4+ minutes of an EDITED 15+ minutes of what was taped. I would like to see the other 11 minutes and then have a little better understanding.
06/28/2007 11:07:52 AM · #110
Originally posted by Louis:

Originally posted by noisemaker:

Canada's law enforment seems alot more controlled, you never hear about any of this kind of stuff happening up here.

Oh boy, is that ever wrong. Just a few examples off the top of my head include Craig Brumell, the police union boss, trying to turn Toronto into a mini police state, the Brampton cops partying loudly into the wee hours of the morning, then chasing and beating up a guy who was filming them, the Saskatchewan RCMP officers who would routinely pick up aboriginals in the city, then dump in the prairie, until a teenager froze to death, the Toronto cops who, for no discernable reason, attacked a semi-conscious homeless person in a stairwell and beat him to a pulp, then got back in their squad car and drove off, the dozens and dozens of Toronto cops who protested at city hall in uniform in direct violation of the chief's order (also a police state action), the undercover Toronto detectives accused of stealing drugs and drug money from criminals, then threatening to jail and beat up those who knew... this is just from memory of the news stories.

There is no police force on the face of the planet that is incorruptible.

I didn't say Canada was flawless, but in a ratio to America we are more controlled(Canada is)
06/28/2007 11:52:27 AM · #111
I used to know a guy who was a cop. He got kicked off because he was stoned (pot) on the job once and another time because he launched off the top of a cruiser and put a guy in hospital for something minor.

Of course that's a far cry from what I saw in the video.

Seems pretty much cut and dried to me.

Not allowed to ride on the sidewalk. Cop showed up and enforced the law. Kids got lippy with their - "Hey, we're just kids having a good time" crap and the cop decided to enforce the law. Hrm. Running away. yeah, bad idea.

My experience with law enforcement is pretty pathetic as I've assisted store security a few times with arrests or detaining someone. However I will say that these days, if someone runs, it's a pretty clear admission of conscious guilt. What that guilt is about is anyone's guess.

Downtown Victoria could find a skater with a pocketfull of weed, spare change, a cell phone, or needles. Anybody's guess. Just because kids are 13 years old does NOT mean that they are defenseless. OR unarmed.

Bottom line, protocol says that you first assume that the detainee is carrying something dangerous. Why? Because they RAN.

I didn't hear anything about the officer trying to do anything to that camera - but he did ask the kid to put it down. Some were speaking into the camera, so it doesn't appear to be any secret that it was recording.

I don't see an officer who is doing stuff because he is concerned about his image. he didn't even turn the camera off. He was just trying to control some kids who were unruly.

When the camera cuts to the kid who was asked to sit down and refuses, there is content missing that we do not know what she was doing before then. The other kid immediately moved in and got physical with the cop.

the other bottom line is that ANY physical act against a cop IS going to be responded to. battery is battery. It's the act. A scratch is evidence.

The fact that the officer put choke holds on the kids shows remarkable restraint IMHO. That is a very low-impact and relatively low-risk method of restraint. The kids were making sure that the officer had his hands full, so he didn't have a lot of options.

If it were me - a civilian with virtually no training - and some punk kid got in my face while I was detaining someone who was genuinely in the wrong, I'd put the kid on his a$$ with a HARD shot straight to the face. Probably break his nose (took a boxing class a while back... I've got a very nasty right jab) and blood everywhere.

I don't see any blood. None of the kids appear to have been hit. just restrained.

I'm a biker too and I've done my share of urban assault, but in Vic, the law says keep the bike off the sidewalk. Do I break this law? Yes I do. If there are people, I ride slowly and carefully and yield the right of way as a guest. Why? Riding on the road in some areas of Victoria was very dangerous with lanes that were too narrow and people with no patience. I've been run off the road for riding on the road by moron motorists. Hence side roads saw me on the road, and main roads saw me on the sidewalk during rush hours. I rode regularly by the cop shop and often encountered police but was never stopped.

Hey, that Chris Rock video really works! heh. btw, that's funny stuff! ;)
06/28/2007 12:02:21 PM · #112
Originally posted by dacrazyrn:

Apparently this is 4+ minutes of an EDITED 15+ minutes of what was taped. I would like to see the other 11 minutes and then have a little better understanding.


Uncut video, running time 7 minutes: (Original is 4 minutes)
Part 1: //youtube.com/watch?v=HOKb2PQs4kc
Part 2: //youtube.com/watch?v=dT6z0dQ_-pg
06/28/2007 12:07:53 PM · #113
Didn't watch the video (at work) but after reading some of the posts here, all i have to say is I'm glad i'm not a cop.

They have a tough job as it is, they get very little respect, and now everything they do is reviewed off editied video, in hindsight by millions of experts on the internet. Imagine doing your job this way?

Note, I'm not defending the cop if he did something wrong. I'm commenting in general and not on this case. I have no problem with a cop teaching a punk kid a life lesson. Even if that kid is mine. Yell and swear at a cop, or disobey a cop and you get what you get.
06/28/2007 12:08:45 PM · #114
Originally posted by eschelar:

Hey, that Chris Rock video really works! heh. btw, that's funny stuff! ;)


Cool! Someone checked it out ;) Nobody commented so I figured everyone missed it. For those whod did...

How Not To Get Beat By Cops

The more I think about it, that whole incident was just another "stunt" for those kids. The kid who was in the "chokehold" turns around while he's being led away and says, "Can you guys get my skateboard?" The kids kept repeating, "He was just riding a skateboard!" like it was a well-rehearsed line.

Those kids were high-fiving each other going, "Dude! That was AWESOME!" after the stunt and are ecstatic with their cult-phenomenon You-Tube status. And everyone that thinks "Oh my god! Those poor kids!" is just being duped exactly the way they want them to be.
06/28/2007 12:30:49 PM · #115
Originally posted by Jmnuggy:

To all those who think the cop was justified in his actions... What would you think if that was your 13 year old daughter getting put into a choke hold by a huge adult male officer?


if my hypothetical daughter mouthed off to or disobeyed a cop, if he doesn't teach her a lesson i will.

Question back to you, would you want your 13 year old daughter mouthing off to or disobeying a cop? If they did, what do you think is just punishment?
06/28/2007 12:31:18 PM · #116
Originally posted by Jmnuggy:

To all those who think the cop was justified in his actions... What would you think if that was your 13 year old daughter getting put into a choke hold by a huge adult male officer?


Okay, stopping you right there. I teach my daughter to respect the police. If they say stop, you stop. If I were to ever find out if my child disobeyed a cop and landed in jail. I would make her spend that night in jail. Period. There has to be respect. I also am very opinionated because my father was a cop.

I very much agree it went too far he should have never put her in a choke hold. However, like many others that I've read here I believe that parents give their children too many ways to make excuses. For instance the thread about the child having a disability was why he wouldn't stop splashing a baby. I would post that thead here but I can't find it. It's all interlinked. Parents don't try to teach respect anymore, they don't disipline anymore.

I'm not saying kids don't have a right to have fun. When I was a teenager we played car tag. Lightly bumping bumpers and driving off to hide from the "it" car. Ya it was stupid and we were ticketed once. We didn't run. We let the cop do his job and we went to a movie or anywhere else after. We were kids, we were stupid, but we were still taught respect and the common sence that if you run, your in a lot of trouble, opossed to just getting a ticket or a warning.

Okay off the soapbox now and know I'm going to be ripped apart
06/28/2007 12:37:38 PM · #117
Originally posted by chip_k:

Originally posted by eschelar:

Hey, that Chris Rock video really works! heh. btw, that's funny stuff! ;)


Cool! Someone checked it out ;) Nobody commented so I figured everyone missed it. For those whod did...

How Not To Get Beat By Cops

The more I think about it, that whole incident was just another "stunt" for those kids. The kid who was in the "chokehold" turns around while he's being led away and says, "Can you guys get my skateboard?" The kids kept repeating, "He was just riding a skateboard!" like it was a well-rehearsed line.

Those kids were high-fiving each other going, "Dude! That was AWESOME!" after the stunt and are ecstatic with their cult-phenomenon You-Tube status. And everyone that thinks "Oh my god! Those poor kids!" is just being duped exactly the way they want them to be.


OMG!!! Laughed my a** off!!!!!!
06/28/2007 12:45:07 PM · #118
Originally posted by fotomann_forever:

Originally posted by RayEthier:


Sorry, but there are venues and competent people whose duty is to review such undertakings, and render judgements as to the propriety of police activities, and I would defer the decision making process to them.


Media has always functioned (in the US) as a fourth branch of government, working to keep the other "official" branches in check.

Now, with the Internet and cameras EVERYWHERE almost any citizen can function as a media provider. It's a very powerful tool indeed for the little guy. Guess what? It's gonna cause some grief for the other branches. Oh well. They'll eventually figure out how to behave themselves.

You can pay off a few media providers, but when everyone is potentially a reporter, government has to be a lot more responsible for it actions and the actions of its representatives.


I have no problems at all with what you are saying here Leroy, but would strongly suggest you go back and read exactly what I did say, which is that this is not the venue to adjudicate such matters.

Let the powers to be gather all the information, analyze it, then deal with it accordingly. I am not apt to pass judgement on any person without having had the opportunity to review all of the materials available.

Too often I have heard arguments which could best be summarized as follows:

"My mind is made up... Don't confuse me with facts."

Ray
06/28/2007 12:54:22 PM · #119
heh. watched the full version and the same theme comes out. it is interesting that the first incident is not captured or displayed on film, but that the person in cuffs

We aren't hurting anyone, therefore we aren't doing anything bad.

You shouldn't react with force towards us because we are kids and we aren't doing anything bad.

Sir, Sir, It's OK (authoritative statement coming from the cameraman).

This last one gets repeated several times. These attitudes are precisely what made me sick of living in Canada.

There are crimes that are not violent. Molesting an underage child in many cases is non-violent. Doing Heroin is non-violent. I wonder if the children's argument would sound so convincing if they heard how their argument sounded when applied to those crimes.

Cop makes his case clear several times. The children are getting arrested for disorderly conduct (presumably riding skateboards where it is not permitted after being warned), interfering with a law enforcement officer... and the original crime.

Dumb kids. the repeated assertion that it's ok because they feel that they have things under control because they aren't doing anything wrong by breaking the law and being uncooperative to the point of resisting arrest is completely descriptive.

For those sensitive parents. Kids like this are going to have to grow up sooner or later. The kids in their late teens are teaching the kids in their young teens how to act. Turns out the older kids are dumbasses.
06/28/2007 01:30:29 PM · #120
Really sad that so many people thinks it's acceptable for a cop to put a kid in a choke hold with no prior warning or even a "shut up".
The second kid choked, after the girl, was upset at the cop and concerned she was being hurt. He was imploring him to chill out. He had her yet increased his aggression.
He was not interfering, he was yelling "she is riding a skateboard, what the fuck is wrong with you."
There is no law against that. I've mouthed off to a cop after a football game while drunk during my friend's arrest for underaged drinking and was given multiple warnings to shut up. I did.
Not once was this kid who was not being pursued - he was a bystander - given any kind of warning.
Pathetic this thug gets defended.

To LoudDog who said "Question back to you, would you want your 13 year old daughter mouthing off to or disobeying a cop? If they did, what do you think is just punishment?"
Not a beating or a choking.
Question to you, does your dog flinch when you raise your hand at it?
You want your kid's to?
Dicipline by fear is advocated by the weakminded.
06/28/2007 01:33:57 PM · #121
anglefire and louddog. Im going to call bullshit on your responses. There is no way any parent seeing their child getting put to the ground by police is going to actually react like that, especially for skateboarding. No way is a parent going to say, "thats what you get for being mouthy" no way. Parents go to court and get up in arms over far far less in regards to their childs personal rights.

Running away is an admission of guilt. True. I don't think their was any denying they were skateboarding. Running from a large officer who just slammed your friend to the pavement is also admission of being scared shitless of what this crazy asshole may do next.

To whomever said choke holds are the less dangerous restraint method. I have to call more bullshit. Choke holds are not safe by any means. Choking is cutting off oxygen to the brain. First it sets off a "freak out" response so the person being choked flails trying to do anything to get a breath, kind of like drowning. Second it shuts you off w/o warning. I do aikido (martial art), lots of chokes. Everytime we do it, instructor warns that unconsiousness comes quickly so be careful. Why do we get this warning? Becuase our instructor accidentally choked someone unconsious while demonstrating a technique.

With the size difference and assuming strength difference, it would have been very easy for officer "kick ass" to choke a kid out, even by accident.

No excuse for his actions. Should be fired at the very least. This guy was looking for trouble and found it. At least he didn't shoot anyone. Even if he was antagonised by these kids doesn't give him the right to use force. He is an ADULT and they were CHILDREN, common sense should take over.
06/28/2007 01:41:20 PM · #122
Here is a crazy idea...

Maybe if this guy asked the kids politely in a mature way to pick up their boards and go somewhere else to skate, they would have said Ok and did it.

Teens like confrontation, especially with authority. Reactions get reactions. Cop became confrontational so the kids became confrontational. When will people learn that if you treat teens/young adults with respect they respond. Treat them like immature kids and thats what you get.

06/28/2007 02:08:45 PM · #123
That police officer is retarded. He was obviously abusing his power. He should have done exactly what others have said, Talk to the kids about the rules that are in place and give them knowledge so they understand why they can't ride skateboards where they were. Kids are rebellious even if they know the rules, but arresting them, chasing them down, choking them, yelling. Could have all been avoided with positive dominant energy.

I think we should all take lessons from the dog whisperer on how to control our kids. You don't have to use force just energy from within. Physical conflict is violence. I am not suggesting leashes and choke chains, come on, why would you think that. Guidance with positive dominant energy.

If kids see you as weak they will respond with not trusting you and defiant behavior. There are people out there who are very good at controlling others using only there energy presence. It is interesting to watch.
06/28/2007 02:18:55 PM · #124
Originally posted by rswank:

To LoudDog who said "Question back to you, would you want your 13 year old daughter mouthing off to or disobeying a cop? If they did, what do you think is just punishment?"
Not a beating or a choking.
Question to you, does your dog flinch when you raise your hand at it?
You want your kid's to?
Dicipline by fear is advocated by the weakminded.


Well you said what is not just punishment, what do you think would be just punishment for disrespecting a cop? Discipline by asking not to do it again is advocated by the soft minded.

All discipline is fear, fear of the consequences. A good beating isn't the answer to everything, but a good talking isn't always the answer either. I personally think disrespecting a cop is a major offense deserving of punishment they will remember and harsh enough to deter them from repeating it. The punishment will be different for different kids. Some understand a good talking to, some understand nothing less then a beat down. Based on the descriptions of the video, these kids probably needed a good beating.

Some parents are not advocates of physical punishment. Some are. Neither are right or wrong. Kids have grown up screwed up both ways. if that's your disagreement with me, then lets agree to disagree.

And, I've never beat my dogs and they don't flinch at anything I do. They do exactly as I say always (I can tell them to drop a hot dog) and they are two of the happiest dogs you'll ever meet. I have grabbed them by the throat and held them on their back 1-2 times each in their lifetime (called and alpha roll). I've only done this to them when I caught them in the act of aggression towards a person or another dog. Some people are not a fan of the alpha roll but I found it to have worked wonders.
06/28/2007 02:20:50 PM · #125
Originally posted by Jmnuggy:

Here is a crazy idea...

Maybe if this guy asked the kids politely in a mature way to pick up their boards and go somewhere else to skate, they would have said Ok and did it.

Teens like confrontation, especially with authority. Reactions get reactions. Cop became confrontational so the kids became confrontational. When will people learn that if you treat teens/young adults with respect they respond. Treat them like immature kids and thats what you get.


Were you there before the video started? Do you know this didn't happen? Or is that covered in the video and I need to see it?

I've seen this approach not work. Some kids...
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