DPChallenge: A Digital Photography Contest You are not logged in. (log in or register) 
 

DPChallenge Forums >> Rant >> Editing
Pages:  
Showing posts 26 - 50 of 62, (reverse)
AuthorThread
 10/01/2002 08:26:41 AM · #26
Originally posted by bobgaither:
That is the reason I don't bring things up like this. I just wanted you all to be aware of what is going on. Choose to listen or not, I don't care. By the way chrisab I gave you a ten on Postcards and I thought it was an excellent photograph. I haven't accused you of cheating. I told you I gave you a five because of the detail and flash on the lemon. I did ask you how you did it but you gave me no respond. Then someone else must have questioned your photograph also to get an administration note. If you feel guilty or angry towards me I am sorry. If I thought you were cheating I would have given you a 1. So with that out the way, how did you do it?


Bob,

The best way to make us aware of what is going on is to use the disqualification request. Believe me, the requests will be listened to. Just mentioning here that you think people may have been cheating does nothing to solve the alleged problem and only serves to frustrate people.

I also find your statement that "If I thought you were cheating I would have given you a 1" to be disturbing. In the past, many photographers have been unfaily penalized because they did something really innovative and people assumed they cheated. An excellent example is Gordon's Absolut Inebriation. Though he was accused in the forums of cheating here, what he did was in fact really creative (read his how-to here). Unfortunately, because many people assumed he cheated and penalized him rather than putting in a DQ request, he finished lower that he probably should have.

If you're afraid that you might make a DQ request on a valid photo, keep in mind that a photographer does not know who made the DQ request. Also, isn't it better to cause us to research a valid photo than to give the photo a 1 for no reason?

My final point is that the current site rules state that "If you feel a photograph has violated the site rules, you may click the "Recommend Disqualification for this Picture" link and enter your reason why. You should then vote on the photo as if the rule was not broken, and leave the determination up the the administrator." This is one of the few requirements we place on your voting in the rules. Penalizing in your vote because you feel a photorapher cheated violates this rule and is unfair to the rest of us.

Please help us enforce the rules by using the DQ request in the future.

Thank you,
-Terry




* This message has been edited by the author on 10/1/2002 8:29:17 AM.
 10/01/2002 08:36:57 AM · #27
Bob,

One question for you. You said that if you think a photographer cheated you give them a 1. What if it turns out you're wrong?

-Terry
 10/01/2002 09:54:50 AM · #28
This thread has turned personal....
 10/01/2002 10:06:25 AM · #29
No, John, this thread STARTED personal when bob accused all of the rest of us of cheating.
 10/01/2002 10:27:09 AM · #30
JM, Jak is exactly right.

sjgleah
 10/01/2002 10:29:14 AM · #31
Bob said this:

"It seems more people are going beyond the editing rules each week. The picture quality is getting better for some, while the ones that are still driving 65 mph. are getting behind. We seem to be forgetting photograph guidelines for these contests. Open up the rules of editing for all or start policing the images. "

Nowhere in this comment did he name any names or accuse EVERYONE of anything. Did I miss something or are you reading something into Bob's comment?
 10/01/2002 10:29:56 AM · #32
Originally posted by sjgleah:
JM, Jak is exactly right.

sjgleah

Maybe so, but so is John :)
 10/01/2002 10:42:14 AM · #33
Originally posted by JohnSetzler :
ClubJuggle was here first so I'll just ignore this... I'm sure he is on top of things...


More or less... I do see one or two posts that in retrospect I probably should have pulled.

For now I'll just stick to a gentle reminder to everyone to keep the discussion to the issue at hand.

Thanks,
Terry
 10/01/2002 11:05:56 AM · #34
I am going to end this thread from me? What I was doing was pleading for the opening up of the editing. I was trying to say that people are doing it already. Two out of the 30 plus contests winners have been disqualified because of not understanding the rules. This thread turned into a witch-hunt. On this week's contest I gave more ones and tens not because of the editing, just because of the trend in voting by others.
 10/01/2002 11:13:45 AM · #35
and in reply, what a lot of people were pleading was for you to follow
the recommended proceedures on the site. Which are to recommend disqualification
for entries that you believe are breaking the rules, and then to vote
assuming they are legitimate. That you refuse to do this, doesn't
really help anyone improve the situation and has just annoyed quite
a few people, particularly as your implication of cheating tarnishes everyone
who enters the challenges, without any method of recourse against your
smear.

I just think it is rude.
 10/01/2002 11:23:27 AM · #36
Bob,

Also keep in mind that the nature of this challenge, the reflections, will create a LOT of pictures which look like photoshop compositions.

That's part of the beauty of it!

My shot looks like a photoshop composite but it was totally shot clean from my camera as seen. Now I hope you really dont give it a one because you think it's 'fake'. If you doubt a picture, use the DQ request - all that does is bring it to the attention of the admins, so they can verify. Nothing more.

Thank you.
 10/01/2002 11:24:25 AM · #37
i think some people think they are more knowlegable about when illegal editing is taking place than they really are. i have worked in photoshop on my job everyday for the past 7+ years and there are many creative ways to go about things that are legal within the dpchallenge guidelines. that paired with a creative mind can produce some amazing things. bob has brought all this on himself by accusing many people of cheating but not giving any examples or doing anything about it. i would be very very curious to see which images he thinks has been illegally edited. bob maybe you should consider that you are not all knowing when it comes to digital photography and digital darkroom techniques.
 10/01/2002 12:02:11 PM · #38
Mmmmmm, I could go for some DQ..... perhaps a Reece's Peanut Butter Cup Blizzard.... mmmmmm
 10/01/2002 12:38:50 PM · #39
I want to see some examples. If Bob knows things I do not, I want to see specifically what he is talking about. He says more and more people are cheating each week, well, give examples, how many cheated last week? What photos are they? If you have questions on how a photo was shot, skow the photos, and ask the photographers.
 10/01/2002 01:17:05 PM · #40
Quite an emotion filled thread running I see. While I too would like to see an example I was just wondering why Bob should open himself up to any more abuse by even attempting to supply an example.

Maybe we can meet in the middle.

Would everyone be open to a learning exchange? How about this, Bob, pick a photo from one of the past challenges you think is edited. Contact the owner via private Email and ask if they would mind discussing their photo in a forum. If they agree, then you can supply the photo name and point out to everyone the who, what, how, when, where and why you think the photo has been edited. The photographer can then explain how they created the effect. You learn a technique you may have been unfamiliar with or in the unlikely event the image WAS edited we learn your technique for detecting illegal effects. You learn something, we learn something, everybody wins.

Now for this to work, we need everyone to be open to the possibility that Bob chooses one of OUR photos and not rake him over the coals for it. I don't know about the rest of you but I'd be happy if one of my photos was chosen. I'd like to know that I could take a photo so well that someone thinks that I had to manipulate it to make it look that good. I'd love for one of my shots to be chosen so I could brag about a technique or effect I've worked hard to implement.

How about it people? Can we work this out to everyone's benefit?

 10/01/2002 01:37:36 PM · #41
Last week I got a comment from someone where they asked if I used 'perspective' in PS to create the effect and if that was legal in DPC.

First, if you leave a comment like that...leave your name, so that we can get back to you and explain.

Second, if you feel strongly about it...enter it for DQ.

Simple...but don't give a 1,2,3 vote because you THINK it is illegal editing.

Back to my entry from last week...I mentioned it in a forum and the commenter saw it...they then approached me via PM to ask, and things were cleared up...that was cool!

If YOU wonder about my photo from last week click here.

* This message has been edited by an administrator (clubjuggle) on 10/1/2002 1:40:13 PM - Removed items that were personal in nature.
 10/01/2002 01:46:31 PM · #42
Once again, please refrain from making personal statements or judgments about particular users. Discussion of issues or photographs is fine, attacks on specific users are not.

-Terry
 10/01/2002 01:47:37 PM · #43
I don't think it is necessary to do all that. It is not our responsibility to do anything. I would certainly be happy to discuss any one of my photos in the forums but I would think that would be taking this discusion too far. I think there is nothing to worry about. If Bob wants to provide some proof of what he is saying then we can go from there but until then it is only unsubstantiated accusations that shouldn't warrent any action from the rest of us. I personally don't like to put much energy into try to find out if someone is cheating or not. I don't really care if a few bad apples get through. I know moderators are already looking for that stuff so that's good enough for me. It doesn't change how I use and enjoy this site.

T
 10/01/2002 01:58:30 PM · #44
same foe me .... and if I get one 1 from Bob for that reason ... well .. now with 300 votes that would not count that much. If I think there is something .. I would use the DQ mechanism , never used it though.

If Bob is happy with the way he is doing things .. I do not agree at all with the way he is doing it .. .but let him be happy with that and let's try to spend our time in a more photographic way.

We do not HAVE to answer in forums , right ?

Lionel
 10/01/2002 02:07:16 PM · #45
Its a shame this silliness started such a debate, it would have been so much better if the had been NO replies to such nonsense!
 10/01/2002 02:50:09 PM · #46
I think he had an honest concern, but worded it horribly. Now, if he does show a photo, it be as an example of how someone cheated, and they will have to prove themselves to him. It would have been better if he had just asked about the photos is question with a "how did they do that" post.

I see one or two photos every challenge that I think are illegal, and I have almost always learned later how the ""trick" was done.

I also think that the number of photos with admin notes shows that the admins are trying to police the site.
 10/01/2002 03:20:26 PM · #47
Originally posted by Zeissman:
I think he had an honest concern, but worded it horribly. Now, if he does show a photo, it be as an example of how someone cheated, and they will have to prove themselves to him. It would have been better if he had just asked about the photos is question with a "how did they do that" post.

I see one or two photos every challenge that I think are illegal, and I have almost always learned later how the ""trick" was done.

I also think that the number of photos with admin notes shows that the admins are trying to police the site.

We are trying to police the site. But an integral part of that is
that people have to raise their concerns with us in the first place.

We don't validate every one of the 250 or so entries we get. For good
reasons - there are too many. So we need your help to bring it to
our attention. That's why this thread has been so frustrating for
several people.
10/01/2002 03:43:59 PM · #48
In every past time I have ever involved myself in I find without exception that once things get competitive you will always have those who believe that winning is the only thing that matters. Therefore, I do not think it silly to discuss the issue of illegal editing as long as it is done in a rational manner. Suppose for the sake of discussion that Bob is correct and an image or images have been illegally edited. While his method of bringing up the issue seems to touched off quite a debate the underlying issue he was making was that he believed some of the images are illegal. In the pursuit of winning, an illegal edit does us all harm even if in a small way. How many beginners will be discouraged thinking "I'll never be that good" when viewing an image that they believe to be legal? What happens to the guy who gets a second place with a legal shot after being bumped by an illegal one? (This is hypothetical people so don't go off thinking it's an accusation). The rules are part of the challenge and that makes the victory that much sweeter if done fairly. I want to win otherwise why compete, but I would like to compete fairly. We could post our photos on other sites for critiques if critiques were all we wanted but we post here to compete. The competition here at DP Challenge adds a touch of spice to the photo taking experience.

<Gets off soapbox>

I just wonder, what if Bob's right. . .

 10/01/2002 03:51:45 PM · #49
Seeker, I think you have missed the point of what is making some of us so upset. I agree that if there are illegal edits it does none of us any good. That is why there is a process in place specifically for asking and for finding out. Bob refuses to use it. THAT is the problem.
 10/01/2002 03:56:08 PM · #50
Bob probably is right. There are likely several images every week that are illegally edited that go unnoticed. Bob is just stirring up trouble by claiming that there are some this week and neglecting to make the DQ requests for those. He's sitting in his La-Z-Boy right now laughing at the commotion that he has caused.

There are several solutions to the problem. The most reasonable one is to do away with the editing rules where nothing would be illegal. That comment stirs up just as much dust as Bob's "I know a secret" remarks.

Second solution is to have every photographer submit the original unmodified photo with EXIF data intact along with the final image. Have a team of people who examine each photo for validity and toss out the ones that are illegal.

On a lesser scale, the top three entries each week should be compared against the original photos to make sure they are valid. This would eliminate the possiblity of a cheater actually winning.


Pages:  
Current Server Time: 07/21/2025 05:09:35 AM

Please log in or register to post to the forums.


Home - Challenges - Community - League - Photos - Cameras - Lenses - Learn - Help - Terms of Use - Privacy - Top ^
DPChallenge, and website content and design, Copyright © 2001-2025 Challenging Technologies, LLC.
All digital photo copyrights belong to the photographers and may not be used without permission.
Current Server Time: 07/21/2025 05:09:35 AM EDT.