| Author | Thread |
|
|
06/11/2009 08:51:53 PM · #201 |
This whole debate is a hoot... the rule is plain and simple. You don't actually have to be the one pressing the release, but you have to have made all the photographic decisions, period. He did not, period. Ergo, DQ. Pain & suffering does not enter into it, our (very much warranted) sympathy for him does not enter into it. If SC decided that this was not a DQ, then they might just as well completely vacate the rule that you have to take your own shots. Where would that leave us?
To K10Dguy: So you think you'd like to be on SC... let me know how that works out for you. Spent 4.5 years there, 10-20 hours per week. Add it up. |
|
|
|
06/11/2009 08:52:52 PM · #202 |
| Hey, Scalvert, I have a bottle of Scotch with your name on it, wanna join me for a drink!! LOL |
|
|
|
06/11/2009 08:53:49 PM · #203 |
Originally posted by scalvert:
Originally posted by NstiG8tr:
TC-80 N3 $136.95 at B&H or I have one for sale at $125 used once. It will per the manual fire off the number of programmed exposures therefore allowing you to take your own photos. |
Cool, but the Mrs. is $0 with free shipping, and allowed as long as I do all the photo work. ;-) |
this is off topic, but i bought one of these from ebay. works great, and arrived in perfect shape. the shipping can take a long time, but i think i had it within 2 weeks. He has them for different cameras. It doesn't have to sit on the hot shoe. $26 shipped. Not as cheap as a friend, but it's great if you don't have someone to push the button ;)
Phottix Wireless Remote for Canon 50d |
|
|
|
06/11/2009 08:55:35 PM · #204 |
thinks people just feel sorry for the guy.
thinks these people should send him flowers instead.
DQ DQ DQ
|
|
|
|
06/11/2009 08:59:14 PM · #205 |
I really don't think this is about the exact details of the 'who clicked the shutter' rule.
He was expecting a DQ when he submitted the shot. It's in the notes.
It's about how the DQ was handled.
Perhaps in this case SC should have been more tactful, given the circumstances. If it had been a DPC celebrity lying in the intensive care bed, would SC have clicked the DQ button without even sending a 'Hope you're feeling better, as you guessed we had to DQ your shot' PM ?
Message edited by author 2009-06-11 21:00:04. |
|
|
|
06/11/2009 09:00:51 PM · #206 |
Originally posted by steefmcbeef:
Originally posted by scalvert:
Originally posted by NstiG8tr:
TC-80 N3 $136.95 at B&H or I have one for sale at $125 used once. It will per the manual fire off the number of programmed exposures therefore allowing you to take your own photos. |
Cool, but the Mrs. is $0 with free shipping, and allowed as long as I do all the photo work. ;-) |
this is off topic, but i bought one of these from ebay. works great, and arrived in perfect shape. the shipping can take a long time, but i think i had it within 2 weeks. He has them for different cameras. It doesn't have to sit on the hot shoe. $26 shipped. Not as cheap as a friend, but it's great if you don't have someone to push the button ;)
Phottix Wireless Remote for Canon 50d |
I think the Mrs also brings him scotch--Canon ain't got a remote for that..... |
|
|
|
06/11/2009 09:06:24 PM · #207 |
Originally posted by JH:
If it had been a DPC celebrity ..... |
we HAVE those? who knew?
you mean like K10DUnrecognizedGeniusGuy?
If Kanye West read his genius claim, he might pick a fight with our guy K10D.
(but he is safe enough, I think, as Kanye is a Proud Non Reader) |
|
|
|
06/11/2009 09:08:18 PM · #208 |
Originally posted by LoudDog:
... He told her where to point it (at him) ... |
He did? How do you know that? The guy scribbled a barely legible note while doped up on morphine that said "picture". |
|
|
|
06/11/2009 09:08:30 PM · #209 |
Originally posted by scalvert:
Originally posted by yanko:
Well he said he instructed his wife on the shot. Why was it DQed then? |
He instructed his wife to TAKE a shot by scribbling a barely-legible "picture" on a piece of paper. His arms were restrained, and that was apparently the extent of the communication. |
What didn't he communicate in capturing this shot? It was a simple idea. Just point the camera and shoot. It didn't required an elaborate setup or timing. Did he forget to say point the camera at me first then shoot? What didn't he do besides not click the shutter?
Message edited by author 2009-06-11 21:10:26.
|
|
|
|
06/11/2009 09:10:25 PM · #210 |
Ok, I've read through the thread and I still feel like Scalvert has not used enough analogies to make it clear to me, but let me try one - Let's say I train my dog to take photos of me...
 |
|
|
|
06/11/2009 09:13:34 PM · #211 |
Originally posted by yanko:
Originally posted by scalvert:
Originally posted by yanko:
Well he said he instructed his wife on the shot. Why was it DQed then? |
He instructed his wife to TAKE a shot by scribbling a barely-legible "picture" on a piece of paper. His arms were restrained, and that was apparently the extent of the communication. |
What didn't he communicate in capturing this shot? It was a simple idea. Just point the camera and shoot. It didn't required an elaborate setup or timing. Did he forget to say point the camera at me first then shoot? What didn't he do besides not click the shutter? |
back to a question I asked earlier-- If the command was given to IreneM, do you think she'd have the same results as my 10 year old son? All they have to do is point and shoot. |
|
|
|
06/11/2009 09:14:49 PM · #212 |
Originally posted by glad2badad:
Originally posted by LoudDog:
... He told her where to point it (at him) ... |
He did? How do you know that? The guy scribbled a barely legible note while doped up on morphine that said "picture". |
There was this one time when a couple on the street ask me to take their picture and I photographed their feet instead. Till this day I don't understand why they got so upset.
|
|
|
|
06/11/2009 09:17:27 PM · #213 |
Originally posted by Art Roflmao:
Ok, I've read through the thread and I still feel like Scalvert has not used enough analogies to make it clear to me, but let me try one - Let's say I train my dog to take photos of me...
|
Well, you do have a tripod in place, so I'd say it's good to go! :-D BTW - forget the photography, that dog is worth a fortune in a circus side show. :-P |
|
|
|
06/11/2009 09:17:50 PM · #214 |
Originally posted by Art Roflmao:
Ok, I've read through the thread and I still feel like Scalvert has not used enough analogies to make it clear to me, but let me try one - Let's say I train my dog to take photos of me...
|
Hmm that is a DQ if ever I saw one.
I mean come onnnnnnnnn, you have not told the dog, whilst restrained with a 3 inch giveway, doped up, using one hand to hold a pen, and somehow a piece of paper, that is on soft blankets, and manage to scribble on it without breaking the paper and spelling correctly and directing the camera and the wife to and how to take the shot at that angle and even though you have tubes stuck in every orifice and cant not see straight, equally having depressed feelings as that is what a general Ai will do to you and you convey your message through body movements whilst in respiratory arrest, that this is the shot,.
You are so DQ'd Art. OHHOHOHOH and you forgot, that animals are not allowed in hospitals.
And , YES< I would love to be on the SC, but I do believe that , that , offer will never happen, as I would get kicked off in a week for telling everyone that they are naughty boys and girls. |
|
|
|
06/11/2009 09:20:12 PM · #215 |
Originally posted by yanko:
Originally posted by glad2badad:
Originally posted by LoudDog:
... He told her where to point it (at him) ... |
He did? How do you know that? The guy scribbled a barely legible note while doped up on morphine that said "picture". |
There was this one time when a couple on the street ask me to take their picture and I photographed their feet instead. Till this day I don't understand why they got so upset. |
I guess you were'nt quite as gifted with a camera as John's girlfriend is then. |
|
|
|
06/11/2009 09:22:18 PM · #216 |
Originally posted by yanko:
Originally posted by scalvert:
Originally posted by yanko:
Well he said he instructed his wife on the shot. Why was it DQed then? |
He instructed his wife to TAKE a shot by scribbling a barely-legible "picture" on a piece of paper. His arms were restrained, and that was apparently the extent of the communication. |
What didn't he communicate in capturing this shot? It was a simple idea. Just point the camera and shoot. It didn't required an elaborate setup or timing. Did he forget to say point the camera at me first then shoot? What didn't he do besides not click the shutter? |
SERIOUSLY??
My wife says "oooh, honey, take a picture of ____!!"
I do.
You want to argue the she is the photographer with "what didn't she do besides not click the shutter?" Seriously????
He scribbles "picture" on a piece of paper, his girlfriend operates the cellphone camera and takes a picture.
In reality, all he did was ask for and model for a picture. Later he post processed the picture that he did not take.
I work with models, make up artists, stylists who provide a much greater contribution to the final image than writing "picture" on a scrap of paper--they get Model, MUA, Stylist credits, I get photographer credit. That's how it works. I don't claim to be the hairstylist because I asked them to style the hair. The model doesn't claim to be the photographer because she asked me to to take the picture.
Message edited by author 2009-06-11 21:24:30. |
|
|
|
06/11/2009 09:23:51 PM · #217 |
Originally posted by vawendy:
Originally posted by yanko:
Originally posted by scalvert:
Originally posted by yanko:
Well he said he instructed his wife on the shot. Why was it DQed then? |
He instructed his wife to TAKE a shot by scribbling a barely-legible "picture" on a piece of paper. His arms were restrained, and that was apparently the extent of the communication. |
What didn't he communicate in capturing this shot? It was a simple idea. Just point the camera and shoot. It didn't required an elaborate setup or timing. Did he forget to say point the camera at me first then shoot? What didn't he do besides not click the shutter? |
back to a question I asked earlier-- If the command was given to IreneM, do you think she'd have the same results as my 10 year old son? All they have to do is point and shoot. |
If I gave Irene my cell phone camera with no settings to adjust and said here take my picture I'd expect to get the same photo from her as I would had I given the camera to someone else standing in her spot.
|
|
|
|
06/11/2009 09:27:09 PM · #218 |
Originally posted by scalvert:
it has to be your work. Somebody else may press the shutter button out of convenience or necessity in the same way that someone else may place your cake in an oven to bake, but if that person did all the work, too, then it's not your cake. It's theirs. Entering someone else's work as your own is a violation of the rules, the Terms or Service, basic ethics, and potentially federal copyright laws (though not likely to be a problem in this case).
I'm sure John thought the situation would make a good challenge entry, and figured it was more about the overall concept, with no photographic decisions to make on a P&S camera. However, merely asking someone to take a photo does not make it yours, and it MUST be yours to be a valid entry. |
Dang! Oddly enough, I agree with Scalvert on this. *grin*
If I hand my Canon 40D (on "Green Square - auto mode") to someone and tell them (or give them a thumbs up sign) that I'm ready for them to take the photo, I don't think I can have the copyright to the photo, even if I edited it later. It belongs to the photographer. The photographer, I agree, is easy to determine if two people are involved and one has put the camera on a tripod, set the focus, ISO, ap, shutter speed, and all other settings, and the other simply presses the shutter button. In this case, Person One has 'made the shot' and .. . Person Two has 'pressed the shutter when told'.
In this case, the owner handed his camera to another person and told (or indicated in some way) that a photograph should be taken. The second person, it can be argued, did EVERYTHING involved in taking the photograph, other than being asked to do so. The Second Person is the photographer, I believe.
I applaud the model for allowing the photo to be made, and for recognizing that the photo fit the challenge PERFECTLY. But, still... he didn't take the photo. There was no creativity on his part before the shot was taken... so in essence, he took someone else's shot (whether with his own camera or not) and edited it.
That's MY opinion.
Everyone has one.
But, the only one that counts (and this I know, *grin*) is the one of Site Council.
|
|
|
|
06/11/2009 09:32:03 PM · #219 |
Originally posted by yanko:
Originally posted by vawendy:
Originally posted by yanko:
Originally posted by scalvert:
Originally posted by yanko:
Well he said he instructed his wife on the shot. Why was it DQed then? |
He instructed his wife to TAKE a shot by scribbling a barely-legible "picture" on a piece of paper. His arms were restrained, and that was apparently the extent of the communication. |
What didn't he communicate in capturing this shot? It was a simple idea. Just point the camera and shoot. It didn't required an elaborate setup or timing. Did he forget to say point the camera at me first then shoot? What didn't he do besides not click the shutter? |
back to a question I asked earlier-- If the command was given to IreneM, do you think she'd have the same results as my 10 year old son? All they have to do is point and shoot. |
If I gave Irene my cell phone camera with no settings to adjust and said here take my picture I'd expect to get the same photo from her as I would had I given the camera to someone else standing in her spot. |
actually, my son probably isn't as tall as IreneM--so it would be a different picture. |
|
|
|
06/11/2009 09:49:17 PM · #220 |
Originally posted by chromeydome:
You want to argue the she is the photographer with "what didn't she do besides not click the shutter?" Seriously????
He scribbles "picture" on a piece of paper, his girlfriend operates the cellphone camera and takes a picture.
In reality, all he did was ask for and model for a picture. Later he post processed the picture that he did not take.
I work with models, make up artists, stylists who provide a much greater contribution to the final image than writing "picture" on a scrap of paper--they get Model, MUA, Stylist credits, I get photographer credit. That's how it works. I don't claim to be the hairstylist because I asked them to style the hair. The model doesn't claim to be the photographer because she asked me to to take the picture. |
I am not arguing whether she is the photographer or not. The rules say someone else can click the shutter so whomever is the real photographer is a moot point anyway. This is a rule interpretation nothing more and the rules say nothing about how elaborate the setup needs to be. He communicate just "picture" probably because that's all that needed to be communicated. I'm sure his wife isn't an idiot and would know to point the camera at him and since the camera has no settings other than the shutter button that's all she did. If you disagree then tell me what else did she do?
|
|
|
|
06/11/2009 09:50:23 PM · #221 |
Originally posted by vawendy:
Originally posted by yanko:
Originally posted by vawendy:
Originally posted by yanko:
Originally posted by scalvert:
Originally posted by yanko:
Well he said he instructed his wife on the shot. Why was it DQed then? |
He instructed his wife to TAKE a shot by scribbling a barely-legible "picture" on a piece of paper. His arms were restrained, and that was apparently the extent of the communication. |
What didn't he communicate in capturing this shot? It was a simple idea. Just point the camera and shoot. It didn't required an elaborate setup or timing. Did he forget to say point the camera at me first then shoot? What didn't he do besides not click the shutter? |
back to a question I asked earlier-- If the command was given to IreneM, do you think she'd have the same results as my 10 year old son? All they have to do is point and shoot. |
If I gave Irene my cell phone camera with no settings to adjust and said here take my picture I'd expect to get the same photo from her as I would had I given the camera to someone else standing in her spot. |
actually, my son probably isn't as tall as IreneM--so it would be a different picture. |
Which I would realize if I had given the camera to him instead so I'd still know what I'd be getting. :)
|
|
|
|
06/11/2009 10:05:13 PM · #222 |
Originally posted by yanko:
Originally posted by chromeydome:
You want to argue the she is the photographer with "what didn't she do besides not click the shutter?" Seriously????
He scribbles "picture" on a piece of paper, his girlfriend operates the cellphone camera and takes a picture.
In reality, all he did was ask for and model for a picture. Later he post processed the picture that he did not take.
I work with models, make up artists, stylists who provide a much greater contribution to the final image than writing "picture" on a scrap of paper--they get Model, MUA, Stylist credits, I get photographer credit. That's how it works. I don't claim to be the hairstylist because I asked them to style the hair. The model doesn't claim to be the photographer because she asked me to to take the picture. |
I am not arguing whether she is the photographer or not. The rules say someone else can click the shutter so whomever is the real photographer is a moot point anyway. This is a rule interpretation nothing more and the rules say nothing about how elaborate the setup needs to be. He communicate just "picture" probably because that's all that needed to be communicated. I'm sure his wife isn't an idiot and would know to point the camera at him and since the camera has no settings other than the shutter button that's all she did. If you disagree then tell me what else did she do? |
She chose where to stand (side to side, closer vs. farther) and moved the camera up and down to compose the image in the frame--she chose a shot slightly from his left, that included his restrained arms, but not his feet. She could have stood further back, got more of the bed, or all of it, moved to include more of the ICU equipment he was tethered to, or leaned in/extended her arm for more of a head and shoulders shot. You send 5 different people in there, one at at a time, with the same cellphone camera and the command "take a picture", you'll get 5 different shots.
Since, by his own description, he managed to scribble a barely legible morphine influenced "picture" on a piece of paper, claims that he somehow communicated his desired composition, position for her to stand, and so forth are dubious at best, and inconsequential if true: a model asks me for a head shot still does not get photographer credit for "directing" the shot. So even if he scribbled "picture, head, hands, no feet" does not mean he set up the camera and shot, but simply gave her direction, which is not the same thing.
Message edited by author 2009-06-11 22:10:27. |
|
|
|
06/11/2009 10:07:12 PM · #223 |
Originally posted by yanko:
I am not arguing whether she is the photographer or not. The rules say someone else can click the shutter so whomever is the real photographer is a moot point anyway. |
Whomever is the real photographer is the whole purpose of the rule! "Your submission must be taken and post-processed by you. Someone else may press the shutter button if you set up the shot and the camera settings." The submission must be taken, or at least set up photographically, by you. That didn't happen here. He asked someone to take a picture. THAT person very clearly set up the shot (regardless of how much or little setup was involved), the camera settings (even if full auto), composition and lighting (even if it was available light and only one obvious position), and took the picture. He did absolutely nothing to setup or take the shot- he just asked for a picture. |
|
|
|
06/11/2009 10:52:43 PM · #224 |
Just as a side thought...wouldn't it be the anesthetist and not the surgeon he should contact his lawyer about?
|
|
|
|
06/11/2009 11:18:51 PM · #225 |
| She obviously did more than just push the button, otherwise we'd have seen a shot of, probably, the inside of her purse. |
|
