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06/27/2007 04:18:34 PM · #26 |
Originally posted by Bear_Music:
C'mon Ben; he was ARRESTING her and she started resisting the arrest.
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She walked over to her friend who was cuffed to probably make sure he was ok.
The cop began to tell her to leave but said "no, sit down".
She was not riding her board nor even talking to the cop.
She did not comply with being told to sit down. She said no and began to walk away - not ride - then the cop said you're under arrest and put her in a choke hold.
Originally posted by Bear_Music:
Nothing would have happened if she'd just sat down and behaved.
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I don't think she needed to sit down when he told her to (maybe I'm wrong). She wasn't under arrest and was a bystander. She was then grabbed and choked while being told she was under arrest after she said "no" and began to disperse the scene.
You don't choke hold a 13 year old girl period.
It's too bad cops like this one give a bad name to all the good ones (most are - I play hockey with about 15 of Columbus' finest) but I also see this all too common in small towns where the High School football players can't get over the fact they aren't the studs they thought they were. You can just sense the arrogance and the "I dare you to look at me the wrong way" attitude with some of these angry power trippers.
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06/27/2007 04:24:21 PM · #27 |
you guys are going to make ray mad...if he hasn't allready commented here yet.
...I think I might side with ray on this one too. |
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06/27/2007 04:24:50 PM · #28 |
Originally posted by RayEthier:
Originally posted by TCGuru:
No matter what, he was way out of line... not like they had guns or knives, they are kids. |
Playing the Devil's advocate here... what would your reaction be if you called the police complaining about kids harassing you and defacing your properthy and they responded by saying " Well...it's not like they have guns or knives, they are kids."
It is quite easy to cast aspersions on the intents and actions of an individuals when things are viewed in isolation, without the benefit of the whole pletora of informations that may be available.
Similarly, would we applaud nonfeasance on the part of the officer if he had simply cast a blind eye and some unfortunate pedestrian had been injured or maimed by these young skateboarders.
Sorry, but there are venues and competent people whose duty is to review such undertakings, and render judgements as to the propriety of police activities, and I would defer the decision making process to them.
Ray |
yep, he allready has commented
I really should read these things first |
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06/27/2007 04:28:23 PM · #29 |
You nailed that one spot on the head. We have a few of these guys on our local force. Fortunately the good ones out number the bad. But they do make lousy cops. None of them were very good jocks either. lol
Originally posted by rswank:
I also see this all too common in small towns where the High School football players can't get over the fact they aren't the studs they thought they were. You can just sense the arrogance and the "I dare you to look at me the wrong way" attitude with some of these angry power trippers. |
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06/27/2007 04:38:27 PM · #30 |
I hope this guy loses his job, and I hope this video can be used as a training tool for other officers. (dont be a jerk)
As far as breaking up a protest , there are other NON-VIOLENT ways of dealing with a small group of 13yr olds.
What if it were a group of 73yr olds protesting a law that they considered obscure?
Would you still advocate a break bones first, sort out the details later approach?
Originally posted by Bear_Music:
And what's the actual EVENT anyway? As far as I can see, we have a municipality that forbids skateboarding on public sidewalks; most of the have laws like this, because skateboarding on public sidewalks is very dangerous for the non-skaters. It looks like the kids organized a "skating protest". Do the police not have the responsibility to stop this event?
R. |
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06/27/2007 04:47:25 PM · #31 |
Originally posted by genghis:
What if it were a group of 73yr olds protesting a law that they considered obscure?
Would you still advocate a break bones first, sort out the details later approach?
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Walkers should be banned on public sidewalks. They are a danger to bystanders. I can't tell you how many times I've almost tripped over old people pushing metal walkers and those ones that use power scooters. Geez!
Beat them all down and throw their old asses in jail.
Message edited by author 2007-06-27 17:33:05.
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06/27/2007 04:48:25 PM · #32 |
I used to live on a street which is still the main route for rich, drunk, teenagers coming home from partying.
It's seems important, socially, for teenagers to establish a pecking order by impressing each other with their vandalistic abilities. Manly acts such as pulling up gardens, throwing bricks through car windows, breaking fences, etc.
From NBC News:
"Thanks to magnetic resonance imaging, or MRI, technology, we know that the teen brain develops from back to front. In other words, the part of the brain that helps teens reason, plan ahead and manage impulses -- the prefrontal cortex -- is one of the last areas to mature, at around age 25."
So. It is my conclusion that all teenagers should be beaten on a regular basis. Or, in the least, give all of the residents of Caroline Street in Burlington, Ontario, paint-ball guns.
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06/27/2007 05:06:32 PM · #33 |
my 2 cents....
most teens on skateboards are not causing trouble (I used to be one), they just want a place to skate. Many places have banned them from the sidewalks, which is what I would guess these kids were up against. Guess they are supposed to skate in the street?? anyway, in OKlahoma City years ago, a church with a LARGE parking lot opened up part of it as a skateboarding place, free to all kids. Suddenly, kids on sidewalks and incidents like this were dramatically lessened.
Maybe they just want a place to play.
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06/27/2007 05:11:07 PM · #34 |
| I like the paintball gun idea. That would help keep all the little old ladies with the walkers in check. ha. Not so certain it would be a bad idea to give paintball guns to the cops. If the teenagers know that the cop is going to pump a few rounds of royal blue at them they just might stay off those sidewalks that are zoned for foot traffic only. When I was a young alot of kids, Not ME!! would throw stones at passing trains, until the guys in the caboose yes that long ago started to carry salt guns in the cab with them. They fired a few salt pellets at these kids and it stopped the trend dead in it's tracks no pun intended. |
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06/27/2007 05:30:17 PM · #35 |
Originally posted by okiesisi:
my 2 cents....
Maybe they just want a place to play. |
exactly
okay since im probably one of the younger members (16 years old) on DPC im speaking on behalf of the youth of today who skateboard and bmx/mountain bike.
we are not bad people, we do not go looking for trouble, we want to have fun doing what we do in a way that doesnt hurt bystanders. everyone of you were young once and did things that now, you would consider stupid and should be punished. i bet if you think back you could find some things that upset your elders but to you was just good clean fun.
if i go riding down a street and i see a curb or drop off a ledge, and i see that im not going to run into anyone. i go off it with my bike, and people will give me dirty looks like i shouldnt be doing that cause they dont. im just looking for fun not trouble.
if we had a place to go where we could ride our boards and bikes as we please we would go there because we're not getting "held down"
i say again, we could be doing drugs and getting drunk and committing crimes. but we're not, we are simply trying to have fun with our friends
as for the "go skateboarding day" event
all there doing is a group ride to go skateboarding and have fun
its not a protest. i say again, NOT A PROTEST.
the same as if a group of photographers went on a day shoot.
the video i posted about the bmx rally was about rights.
they were trying to stay out of trouble by going to a place where they were safe.
i think some of the posts in this thread are kind of biased.
btw, some kids do need a good beating haha but most have a good head on their shoulders and should be treated as equals |
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06/27/2007 05:58:14 PM · #36 |
Originally posted by Bear_Music:
What are they SUPPOSED to do? let the kids not get arrested 'cuz they are kids? What good is that gonna do any of us in the long run?
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They're supposed to do what 99.999 percent of them do. Not be a dick. You're seeing the typical media filter which is going to get worse because of the large numbers of lens that peer at cops, and us all the time now. You don't ever see the times this happens and the cops are calm, cool, and collected and easily defuse the situation. Sure they'll still have to arrest a few punks, but hey, it's a learning process for the kids.
I've seen situations like this that went much better. Sure the cops are the authorities. But with that power comes responsibility. Running down behind a kid who is mouthing off is really kind of stupid. He had one on the ground, what does he do? He's got to show what a bad-ass he is and see just how many kids he can knock down and cuff all by himself. This really teaches a valuable lesson to the kids watching: cops are bad-asses and it's a lot of fun for them. Not to mention the possibility of injury to these kids who aren't committing violent crimes.
Now if he really wanted to influence the kids he would have told the kids he thought the rules might suck, but he's got to enforce them because it's his job. Offer several of them a ride down to city hall to talk with some people involved with making those rules. Invite the one with the camera to come with them so maybe a video of a cop who's really got it together will appear on the net next time. But heck, that won't work, we all want the dirt. I bet what I just described happens more often than we expect, we just don't see it.
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06/27/2007 06:04:58 PM · #37 |
Originally posted by Strikeslip:
From NBC News:
"Thanks to magnetic resonance imaging, or MRI, technology, we know that the teen brain develops from back to front. In other words, the part of the brain that helps teens reason, plan ahead and manage impulses -- the prefrontal cortex -- is one of the last areas to mature, at around age 25." |
This is exactly why you should slap the kids in the back of the head - it helps speed the process.
The issues are:
- kids need places to skate/ride/break windows
- the public needs to be safe
- private property needs to be protected
More cities are building skate parks - they should include bike parks or share the skate parks equitably.
There will always be an element of youth that will always choose to skate wherever they want and sometimes the off-limits aspect of it is the primary source of adrenaline. That's fine, but if you get caught, be respectful and take your lumps.
My issue is with the misguided anger or protest - why harass the cops? They are paid to enforce the law and I doubt anyone wants them to pick and choose which ones to enforce (yes, I know some do anyway). The protests or outcries should be directed at your local city council - they are the ones with the power to give you what you want (or not).
Go skate or bunny-hop on the steps of your local city hall and let the cops do their jobs.
*Art slaps each of you youngsters in the back of the head on his way out* |
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06/27/2007 06:06:50 PM · #38 |
Originally posted by levyj413:
I also don't understand what the kid with the video was being arrested for. I'd be curious to know more, because the video makes it appear that he was arrested for interfering, when he wasn't in the way at all. |
Same thing the cop was doing, he was being a dick. After watching the thing a couple of times I suspect the video didn't just "happen" to be there. The whole thing was staged. So, you do your crime, you go to jail. My only problem was this officers use of force. Can you imagine this officers response if he actually was involved in a deadly force issue?
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06/27/2007 06:08:44 PM · #39 |
"Maybe they just want a place to play."
We HAVE skateparks here where I live. In fact, we have one of the nicest skate parks I've ever seen, it's incredible. Unfortunately, the place is in danger of being closed down because of underage drinking, fighting and vandalism. You can't say that it's because the kids don't have a place to skate!
And, sure, the cop was being overly rough to the guy he was arresting, but those kids were REALLY antagonizing the guy. Standing over the cop while he's trying to get the guy under control and yelling, "All he was doing was riding a skateboard! It's just like a yo-yo!" is a really, really, really STUPID idea. So is RUNNING from a cop. Especially when he's a "angry power tripper." ;)
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06/27/2007 06:24:28 PM · #40 |
Originally posted by RayEthier:
Similarly, would we applaud nonfeasance on the part of the officer if he had simply cast a blind eye and some unfortunate pedestrian had been injured or maimed by these young skateboarders.
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1. The issue wasn't that they were endangering pedestrians or skateboarding on the sidewalk. It was that they were skateboarding period.
2. Yes, because it is a civil matter, not a legal one.
Originally posted by RayEthier:
Sorry, but there are venues and competent people whose duty is to review such undertakings, and render judgements as to the propriety of police activities, and I would defer the decision making process to them. |
Ok... this is where I cry bullshit. It is the duty and responsibility of the people to keep law enforcement in check. Internal policing fails almost 100% of the time in situations like this if the public does not raise outcry about unlawful and irresponsible action. Civilian Review Boards are one method, but those are only formed once the bureau has been bombarded with the fact that a problem exists.
ETA: For what it's worth, the officer has already been placed on administrative leave pending further action.
Message edited by author 2007-06-27 18:28:20. |
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06/27/2007 06:33:07 PM · #41 |
Originally posted by chip_k:
And, sure, the cop was being overly rough to the guy he was arresting, but those kids were REALLY antagonizing the guy. Standing over the cop while he's trying to get the guy under control and yelling, "All he was doing was riding a skateboard! It's just like a yo-yo!" is a really, really, really STUPID idea. So is RUNNING from a cop. Especially when he's a "angry power tripper." ;) |
The kid who ran did so because when he said "The cop just choked him and I have a picture of it" and the cop said "you, come here" - clearly intending to destroy the evidence of his action because he was alerted to its existence. |
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06/27/2007 06:34:25 PM · #42 |
| I'm just want to add that this where this happined is a huge tourist area. There are alot of old people on the streets most of the time. There are signs everywhere saying No bikes or skateboards on the sidewalk. And there is a skate park nearby. I think the cameras may have missed the first part of the incident. |
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06/27/2007 06:41:36 PM · #43 |
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06/27/2007 06:42:40 PM · #44 |
| i love watching kids skateboard and BMX. the athleticism is amazing! in my observations kids who skate and bike are very focused, driven and open-minded. those are great qualities we want to instill in all children. are some kids annoying little turds. you betcha- they are probably the ones hanging out on the sidelines, drinking and taking bong hits (sorry baby jesus) and ruining the parks for the kids you really use them. |
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06/27/2007 06:44:29 PM · #45 |
Originally posted by chimericvisions:
he said "The cop just choked him and I have a picture of it" |
Yes, that's EXACTLY what I meant by antagonizing :) |
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06/27/2007 06:49:36 PM · #46 |
I will say this much, No one has video or record of what the punks did to be treated this way and they definitley would neevr admit to wrong doing.
Anytime police in my area try to get skaters out of an area that is clearly marked with 17 signs. The punks run and if they catch up the fight... mark one up for assault. Chances are the kids were not cooperating.
On the other end, cops are people and some people have issues. So its very much possible they were being overly forceful and overreacting. But if even one of them tryed to runaway in my area hes getting body slammed by atleast 2 cops. And its fucking funny as hell. |
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06/27/2007 06:51:03 PM · #47 |
Originally posted by chimericvisions:
Originally posted by chip_k:
And, sure, the cop was being overly rough to the guy he was arresting, but those kids were REALLY antagonizing the guy. Standing over the cop while he's trying to get the guy under control and yelling, "All he was doing was riding a skateboard! It's just like a yo-yo!" is a really, really, really STUPID idea. So is RUNNING from a cop. Especially when he's a "angry power tripper." ;) |
The kid who ran did so because when he said "The cop just choked him and I have a picture of it" and the cop said "you, come here" - clearly intending to destroy the evidence of his action because he was alerted to its existence. |
Using this same logic I can say "Clearly since these kids had a hidden camera they intended to provoke an incident with the police."
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06/27/2007 06:54:17 PM · #48 |
Originally posted by RayEthier:
Sorry, but there are venues and competent people whose duty is to review such undertakings, and render judgements as to the propriety of police activities, and I would defer the decision making process to them.
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Media has always functioned (in the US) as a fourth branch of government, working to keep the other "official" branches in check.
Now, with the Internet and cameras EVERYWHERE almost any citizen can function as a media provider. It's a very powerful tool indeed for the little guy. Guess what? It's gonna cause some grief for the other branches. Oh well. They'll eventually figure out how to behave themselves.
You can pay off a few media providers, but when everyone is potentially a reporter, government has to be a lot more responsible for it actions and the actions of its representatives.
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06/27/2007 07:17:52 PM · #49 |
Originally posted by RainMotorsports:
I will say this much, No one has video or record of what the punks did to be treated this way and they definitley would neevr admit to wrong doing.
Anytime police in my area try to get skaters out of an area that is clearly marked with 17 signs. The punks run and if they catch up the fight... mark one up for assault. Chances are the kids were not cooperating.
On the other end, cops are people and some people have issues. So its very much possible they were being overly forceful and overreacting. But if even one of them tryed to runaway in my area hes getting body slammed by atleast 2 cops. And its fucking funny as hell. |
Exactly, we don't know what led up to the arrest and it will most likly be the word of the kids against the cops. I'm willing to bet the kids were having their "Happy go skating day" on the sidewalks where it's not allowed, the cop stopped them to tell them it wasn't authorized and someone got mouthy or popped an attitude. I do think the cop might have gone overboard but I don't know the entire story.
Originally posted by vxpra:
...Using this same logic I can say "Clearly since these kids had a hidden camera they intended to provoke an incident with the police." |
I don't think the camera was hidden, it looks like it but I really think it was just being held away from his face to make it appear like he wasn't recording. After the girl and other guy are put in the choke hold (after neither would listen to him by the way) the officer tells one of kids to set it down and you see the camera being placed on the ground and the kid lays in front of it. They were most likly riding around and filming themselves as I know a lot do.
The main fact is that each side was in the wrong in their own way and the cop is going to get the brunt of the deal cause he is supposed to be an adult and be able to show restraint of his emotions and power. The kids are most likly gonna get off and in turn no learn at all from the incident...except maybe how to be bad and get away with it. |
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06/27/2007 07:18:38 PM · #50 |
That's right, hammer the cops, get them fired, make it so they can't do their jobs and the next time one comes up against a 13 year old girl and tries to reason with her and play "nice" and she sticks a knife in his gut or pulls out a homemade single shot pistol and shoots him in the face, you probably will still say he deserved it.
It's parents with these same kinds of attitudes that won't take responsibility for their kids that create situations like this where kids think they can do anything they want and not face the conciquences.
Yes, there are bad cops out there (there are bad humans in life)... you know why there are more bad and less good ones? Because it's people like most of you that have forced the good cops to hang it up because they can't do their job and because of that hey are more likely to get hurt or killed or some other innocent will. It's the same reason why we are seeing fewer and fewer good teachers... the hassles they have to put up with make the job just not worth it.
Now, if it was me, I would have sent the dogs in. ;)
Mike
Message edited by author 2007-06-27 19:21:37.
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