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05/05/2004 03:49:52 PM · #51 |
Originally posted by EddyG:
Based on some of the feedback in this thread, I have put together...
Optional Voting Method 2.0 Demo
Again, this is all still pure HTML/JavaScript, so injecting it via something like Proxomitron into the voting page would make this possible for anybody who wants to go that far.
Changes since the initial version:
1) added the ability to enter an (optional) comment for each criteria
2) cleaned it up visually by putting ranking numbers above buttons and making the description of the voting criteria a "tooltip" (hover your mouse over the word "Composition", for example, if you forget what that criteria is about.)
3) added a checkbox to include the individual criteria rankings in the comment or not. If this is not checked, the buttons that insert a comment are disabled unless you've actually typed at least 1 comment
I want to point out that this is purely a proof of concept; please do not message the admins or others SC's to try and persuade them to get this implemented "for real" on a site-wide basis. Commenting on it in this thread is fine, but begging D&L for it will probably get you nowhere fast... =] |
I really like what you have put together, but can you imagine how long it will take to vote and/or comment on 447 photos? Or more? I'm glad I'm not one of the SC...you have my respect for having to deal with this kind of thing on top of your regular lives!!!
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05/05/2004 04:07:16 PM · #52 |
Originally posted by EddyG:
Based on some of the feedback in this thread, I have put together... snip...
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Great proof of concept! I love the way the new one works. Actually, I thought the first one was a nonfunctional screen demo because it doesn't work in Mozilla (Firefox). I tried it in IE though and it's fantastic.
I want it...now! Drew, Langdon, any comments? Any hope? |
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05/05/2004 04:16:35 PM · #53 |
Originally posted by nshapiro:
Actually, I thought the first one was a nonfunctional screen demo because it doesn't work in Mozilla (Firefox). I tried it in IE though and it's fantastic.
I want it...now! Drew, Langdon, any comments? Any hope? |
are you running tabbrowser extensions in FF? that extension has always been picky with java stuff. disabling it, the browser works fine, but you still have to restart FF so why not just open IE? (yes i'm arguing with myself :) |
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05/05/2004 06:42:02 PM · #54 |
Originally posted by the-O-ster:
Originally posted by nshapiro:
Actually, I thought the first one was a nonfunctional screen demo because it doesn't work in Mozilla (Firefox). I tried it in IE though and it's fantastic.
I want it...now! Drew, Langdon, any comments? Any hope? |
are you running tabbrowser extensions in FF? that extension has always been picky with java stuff. disabling it, the browser works fine, but you still have to restart FF so why not just open IE? (yes i'm arguing with myself :) |
No, I don't have any extensions loaded. |
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05/05/2004 07:56:04 PM · #55 |
Good morning everyone. This thread clearly got more intersting as I was sleeping over here in HK. As I read this thread, three very well thought out objections to the autocommenting/voting jumped out at me. They can be roughly paraphrased as:
1) The quality of a well thought out and individually drafted comment is better than anything we can do systemically (willem and mijak- Personally I agree with this, but feel there simply aren't enough people who can/will make the well reasoned and helpful comments in question.)
2) The number of auto comments would be overwhelming in terms of time commitment to vote. (laurielblack)
3) The equal weighting doesn't work for some people and that would need to be flexible. (the O-ster)
My question: do we agree that these are the major objections?
I believe that if this is implemented as an option, the first and second objection are reasonably well addressed, and those that are uncomfortable drafting comments have a useful tool available, with obvious benefits.
The third objection is one that coding gurus need to address. Anyone want to take a stab at that?
Bill M.
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05/05/2004 08:17:10 PM · #56 |
I'm a bit pressed for time right now, so I have not read the whole thread, but I was thinking that it might be a good idea to have a check box on the threads so we could bookmark them for reading when we had more time. There are some threads I've read and forgotten the title and now I cannot find them. Sorry to get off topic. Anyway, I thought EddyG's voting scale was great. i plan on returning to this thread later, hence the off topic comment.
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05/05/2004 08:37:18 PM · #57 |
I think weighting voting elements differently is a good idea.
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05/05/2004 11:37:18 PM · #58 |
| I think weighting is fine; it would be cool if we could set the weights in our own profiles, but a site wide setting would be fine too. |
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05/06/2004 01:52:04 AM · #59 |
Earlier, I looked back at some of the other challenges that had a high number of entries, and didn't see a real difference in number of average comments across all players.
With the other threads going about high numbers of votes and low numbers of comments, it might be worth doing some analysis after this challenge relative to who gets comments.
If the the various posts about average photos getting the least comments, this tool might be just the thing to help people who are in the middle of the pack.
Anyway, just one more thought on this issue.
Best,
Bill
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05/06/2004 03:13:15 AM · #60 |
I like the idea, but I am having issues with the weighting as discussed.
Part of what makes the voting true to the spirit of the art is that each individual sees the photo for themselves as individuals, and puts greater value (weight) on different aspects. The weighting would have to be customizable (say in the users preferences) on how they want to weight the various aspects; although 'meets challenge' should be first since it is in the rules (in bold) that it is to be the most important consideration while voting.
However, there should also be an option to not weight them at all. Instead, the user places the final vote just as they do now (along with the others if they wish). This is a weighting of sorts, but it may not be one that has an easy mathematical formula for. Remember, it is always possible to have a photo that breaks all the rules in composition, color, lighting and so on and yet is still a very likable photo to some.
David
BTW: Brooklyn513: I have a folder in my browsers favorites named 'Forums', with various topics underneath (some with subtopics), and into these I place the forum threads I find interesting.
/edit: typos and clarity
Message edited by author 2004-05-06 03:16:12. |
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05/06/2004 10:32:05 AM · #61 |
Originally posted by nshapiro:
I think weighting is fine; it would be cool if we could set the weights in our own profiles, but a site wide setting would be fine too. |
User definable weighting would probably please more people. Personally I don't mind a site wide setting either.
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05/06/2004 10:33:29 AM · #62 |
As I have said before, if something similar to Eddyâs sample was to be considered for the site, it needs to be kept very simple. As far as weighting different areas, that is built into his sample already with the 1-10 scale in each category. At least I think so, and this leaves it flexible for each voterâs opinion. After all this whole voting/commenting exercise is no more than expressing your opinion and having it count. To most of us that in its self is a first, and we can do it as many times as we want, as long as it is on at least 20% of each challenge.
I guess I had better get started voting because the week is getting short. If I use my little concocted excel spreadsheet that started this thread, I will have to perform at least 11 functions for each picture I vote on, providing I donât hit the wrong key in the process.
With 2 challenges having 653 entries I am faced with 7183 keyboard/mouse functions. If I spend 30 seconds on each picture, I wont expect to finish for approximately 60 hours. Maybe I had better just shoot for 20%, which should only take 12 hours.
If I were to just leave a simple comment like âdonât get itâ, âcoolâ, â5â, âdnt ft chlngâ, it will take about the same amount of time, as I didnât think a machinist would ever need typing skills, and skipped that class 50 years ago. And that's all with Broadband.
It looks like itâs going to be just clicking a number for me this time.
Dick
Message edited by author 2004-05-06 10:37:34. |
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05/06/2004 10:44:00 AM · #63 |
Dick,
I've started using a "knock off" of your macro. I find it a bit slow personally - maybe I vote too fast normally - or maybe it's my approach.
I think I'll stick to only do 20% this time.
Owen
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05/06/2004 10:46:09 AM · #64 |
Owen,
I agree, it really needs to be incorporated into the system.
Dick
(see I can't even type this much without having to edit it)
Message edited by author 2004-05-06 10:48:12. |
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05/06/2004 11:00:56 AM · #65 |
Originally posted by autool:
...With 2 challenges having 653 entries I am faced with 7183 keyboard/mouse functions. If I spend 30 seconds on each picture, I wont expect to finish for approximately 60 hours. Maybe I had better just shoot for 20%, which should only take 12 hours.
If I were to just leave a simple comment like âdonât get itâ, âcoolâ, â5â, âdnt ft chlngâ, it will take about the same amount of time, as I didnât think a machinist would ever need typing skills, and skipped that class 50 years ago. And that's all with Broadband... |
Dick,
That post is priceless and belongs in a commercial. FWIW: if you vote on my image, you will increase my comment count by 25% (but I have no dog in the Abstract hunt, so think "Rust")
Best
Bill M.
P.S. Any chance I can get your macro?
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05/06/2004 11:19:28 AM · #66 |
Originally posted by bill_hk2002:
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Dick,
That post is priceless and belongs in a commercial. FWIW: if you vote on my image, you will increase my comment count by 25% (but I have no dog in the Abstract hunt, so think "Rust")
Best
Bill M.
Bill
I kind of thought it WAS a commercial. The guy with the dog must have a twisted sense of humor.
Dick
Message edited by author 2004-05-06 11:21:06. |
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05/06/2004 03:15:17 PM · #67 |
| I still would like to hear Drew or Langdon's opinion of all this, and whether it can be added on the todo list, and it's priority. |
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05/06/2004 09:30:41 PM · #68 |
| Ok, so Drew and Langdon aren't weighing in. How about the site council? |
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05/06/2004 09:50:31 PM · #69 |
Originally posted by nshapiro:
Ok, so Drew and Langdon aren't weighing in. How about the site council? |
I've all but begged also. If they care not to weigh in on the issue (or non-issue), I guess that's their perogative. The courtesy of a comment would be much appreciated in any case.
*edit - For those who didn't read all the thread, EddyG not only weighed in, he created a couple of alternative voting mock-ups. Thanks again Eddy.
Message edited by author 2004-05-06 21:54:04.
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05/07/2004 08:43:07 AM · #70 |
| We're not gone to beg, we're going to fillibuster. |
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05/07/2004 08:49:26 AM · #71 |
I'm going to load Dick's tool this evening and see if I can gather some data on how useful people find it.
Basically, I think that needs to be our next step, as until then, all we have is opinions (ours, which seem pretty good to me, but not universally held.)
Bill M.
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05/07/2004 09:06:32 AM · #72 |
Originally posted by bill_hk2002:
I'm going to load Dick's tool this evening and see if I can gather some data on how useful people find it.
Basically, I think that needs to be our next step, as until then, all we have is opinions (ours, which seem pretty good to me, but not universally held.)
Bill M. |
I'm using a knock-off of Dick's macro myself. I wonder how many people I've alienated so far and how many actually found it useful? Guess I'll find out when the challenge is over.
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05/07/2004 09:44:43 AM · #73 |
I hope that we haven't alienated EddyG, with these implementation comments. We've not heard from him in awhile. I appologize Eddy, if I have taken advantage of your trust. :<(
Dick
Originally posted by EddyG:
I want to point out that this is purely a proof of concept; please do not message the admins or others SC's to try and persuade them to get this implemented "for real" on a site-wide basis. Commenting on it in this thread is fine, but begging D&L for it will probably get you nowhere fast... =] |
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05/07/2004 10:33:43 AM · #74 |
Originally posted by orussell:
I'm using a knock-off of Dick's macro myself. I wonder how many people I've alienated so far and how many actually found it useful? Guess I'll find out when the challenge is over. |
WOW. Thanks for the positive feedback everyone!! You know who you are, no need to mention names. :) Nobody alienated so far.
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05/07/2004 11:20:04 AM · #75 |
I've got 33 done so far in the rust challenge. I decided that if you other guys are trying it, the least I could do was my share.
Thanks for the encouragement on this format.
Happy clicking!
Dick
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