A class of challenges called: Abstract

06/18/2012 01:43:37 PM · #51

Thanks Robert & James. Your feedback is much appreciated. I understand a bit better now. Although, it's anathema to me to not show the entire bird/animal. But, I understand what you are saying. I'll see if I can break some of my rules about my nature photography.

JuliBoc

Apple iPhone 6s+

Canon EF 50mm f/1.4 USM

06/18/2012 02:01:41 PM · #52

My take is that if you're thinking "nature photograph" you may have a very difficult time with an "abstract" challenge. I plan to think "abstract" and then limit myself to nature as a source for the image. Of course "nature" is a very broad category, so I guess I'll mostly be ruling out anything manufactured by mankind.

Canon EF-S 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 IS

06/18/2012 02:08:21 PM · #53

Originally posted by JuliBoc:

I have placed a piece of masking tape on the back of my camera with the letters A-B-S-T-R-A-C-T printed with bold letters. I've also placed my right boot on my left foot and a Teva sandal on my other foot. This discomfort and imbalance will help me remember to "step" out-of-the-box.

EL-ROI

Canon EOS-450D Rebel XSi

06/18/2012 02:20:14 PM · #54

Originally posted by hahn23:

Agreed that melethia's image is a fine abstract presentation.

Please help me understand why my abstract b&w image received so many DNMC votes. (Obviously inferior on many fronts, but I actually thought this was abstract. And, was very surprised to finish right near the bottom of that abstract challenge.)

This is for educational purposes, so you need not be kind. Please cut to the chase. I'm willing to open my mind here, but am obviously confused. As I shoot for the next abstract challenge, it would be nice to have some kind of guidance.

Here is an assignment for you that may help...

Play around with your bird photo in Photoshop. This may work well in color. Put a big gaussian blur over the whole shot, not too blurry where everything is unrecognizeable, but just enough so there is no detail and you can see colors, light and shapes. Now take a big soft brush and using your color pallette paint what you see on a new layer above the blur layer. In your mind and then on the canvas, break the shot down into it's essential elements of lines & shapes, light & shadow, colors and tones. You'll have big grey circular shapes for stone, a brown and white shape for the bird. Two lines for it's legs, circular spots on it's chest and a yellow triangular beak. Remove all the layers under the blur layer and move the Gaussian blur layer above your new layer you just painted on. Save the file as a jpg and post your results back here and talk about what you see.

Kelli

Canon EOS-D60

Canon EF 28-135mm f/3.5-5.6 IS USM

06/18/2012 02:21:01 PM · #55

Originally posted by hahn23:

Originally posted by JuliBoc:
My take is that if you're thinking "nature photograph" you may have a very difficult time with an "abstract" challenge. I plan to think "abstract" and then limit myself to nature as a source for the image. Of course "nature" is a very broad category, so I guess I'll mostly be ruling out anything manufactured by mankind.

I have placed a piece of masking tape on the back of my camera with the letters A-B-S-T-R-A-C-T printed with bold letters. I've also placed my right boot on my left foot and a Teva sandal on my other foot. This discomfort and imbalance will help me remember to "step" out-of-the-box.

;D

You might want to remember that abstract & macro work well together in nature. Get down and personal with your natural self!

06/18/2012 02:28:19 PM · #56

Originally posted by Kelli:

Originally posted by hahn23:

Originally posted by JuliBoc:
My take is that if you're thinking "nature photograph" you may have a very difficult time with an "abstract" challenge. I plan to think "abstract" and then limit myself to nature as a source for the image. Of course "nature" is a very broad category, so I guess I'll mostly be ruling out anything manufactured by mankind.

I have placed a piece of masking tape on the back of my camera with the letters A-B-S-T-R-A-C-T printed with bold letters. I've also placed my right boot on my left foot and a Teva sandal on my other foot. This discomfort and imbalance will help me remember to "step" out-of-the-box.

;D

You might want to remember that abstract & macro work well together in nature. Get down and personal with your natural self!

I fall down a lot at my age. When I inevitably fall again, I just need to stay down there with my camera gear. Good idea.....low angle POV and macro shot.

JuliBoc

Apple iPhone 6s+

Canon EF 50mm f/1.4 USM

06/18/2012 02:47:14 PM · #57

Originally posted by EL-ROI:

What a great idea. I can't wait to try this.

sfalice

Canon PowerShot SX60 HS

06/18/2012 08:13:16 PM · #58

Originally posted by hahn23:

Who IS this!

Dang it, do it, Richard. Now you are getting into the spirit.
...and when you are plunging in free-fall, remember to snap the shutter.

Nikon AF-S Zoom-Nikkor 70-300mm f/4.5-5.6G IF-ED VR

06/18/2012 09:07:11 PM · #59

I'm at work all I have is iPhone. Will post when I get home. Fascinating discussion!

Neat

Canon Canon 1d x Mark II

Canon EF 50mm f/1.4 USM

06/18/2012 10:17:00 PM · #60

Ha ha, I did change my entry again, now watch out!!!!

Sirashley

Nikon D7200

06/18/2012 11:34:38 PM · #61

I should preface this by saying that I have very little to no experience with Abstract photography, so take it for what its worth... To me, the perfect abstract was something that revealed enough to lead the viewer in a direction, but let them form their own conclusion...

For my shot, I wanted to find an interesting pattern in a bird's wing. So at the Zoo, I zoomed in on the side of a flamingo and when I got home cropped and edited it. This was my entry

I have to be honest, I thought it would finish somewhere between 5.5 and 5.7... When the contest was over, I re-read my comments and discovered that what people seemed to really like were the tones, detail, and flow of the image. I'm going to try to build off of that for this challenge, which hopefully I can replicate :) so long as I can find time to shoot for it...

I'm sure people could take a quick glance at my photo and know that its a bird... but what kind of bird? How big/small? Was it flying or perched? All of this is left to the viewer's imagination. So I don't think that people will score you low if they know what your subject is, I think they will score you low if they know too much about your subject.

Lastly, this is a personal gripe of mine, don't title your image what it is... There were some images in the abstract challenge that did this. I think it would have really hurt my image to title it, "Flamingo Wing" because that really takes away from what the viewer is imagining it might be. Instead, I titled it, "The Messenger" because to me, when I looked at it, it looked like an Angel's wing, and Angel's were messengers.

I'm really looking forward to this abstract Nature challenge, even if I don't do as well, its fun to get out of my comfort zone and try something new

Message edited by author 2012-06-19 00:10:02.

Sony Sonnar FE 2.8 35mm ZA

06/19/2012 02:08:03 AM · #62

Originally posted by posthumous:

Originally posted by pixelpig:

IMO the abstract in this comp is created by the elements of the comp--all 'real' all in focus, but in combination they create an abstract. And read the notes you put on this image--the elements in the comp represent abstract ideas, & the story itself describes a mind thinking about a way out of the box. IMO the abstract is a strong element in every shot you take. JMO, though.

More opinion--photography is by its very nature abstract because the photographer must make a choice to abstract a moment & trap it out of context forever. Each individual's knowledge of reality must be abstract because it's impossible to be alive (& sane) without making choices.

It's easier to appreciate the abstract qualities in some shots, especially the ones that emphasize the elements of composition rather than the subject of the composition.

Ah, that's an impressive attempt to tackle this idea of abstraction, which comes from the Latin for "to draw away from." At first, I thought you were confusing "abstraction" with "composition," but I think what you're really saying is that emphasis on composition is a form of abstraction, because it "draws you away from" the subject(s) of the photo.

More controversial is your idea that jagar's allegorical elements are a form of abstraction, since allegory brings you *toward* the subjects of the photo... or does it? The subjects become symbols of something else, and thus they are less "themselves." I think this is a literary form of abstraction, rather than a visual form of abstraction. This is why "realists" and "naturalists" hated allegory and symbolism, they preferred the "concrete" to the "abstract."

First, my apology to

jagar, I did not intend to teach him about his own work. He did say he never shoots abstract. I respect that.

I see abstract just about everywhere I look. This comp pleased my eye. How would I describe it?--not as "a picture of (something)." Of course I would not describe it as 2 guys taking a break from their backbreaking labors on a decrepit old house to shoot & pose for a few photos. It's not a documentary shot of that, even though that's what happened (according to the notes). It's no record of the old house. It's no record of 2 guys working on an old house. It's not even a record of 2 guys shooting some photos. If I had to describe it to someone who has never seen it, I might describe it in terms of what happened before/during the shoot. But not in terms of what it's a picture of.

The building is abstracted to a collage of wall textures that holds everything else in place. The elements in the wall have no logical relation to one another. There's no ground, no floor. No ceiling. Just an abstract wall. It could be attached to a building or it could be a freestanding wall in an art gallery. The lighting reveals nothing--indoor? outdoor?

The enigma in blue denim is an abstract of the whole person. It could be a cardboard cutout of a photograph of a real person (double abstract). The foot is raised arbitrarily (abstractly) resting on nothing. Climbing? Falling? Dancing? Male? Female? It holds my attention without revealing anything to me.

And those red poppies. Little daubs of blood red.

The bits of daily life, out of context.

The figure in the window, flashing the whites of his eyes. ?

I admire this seemingly arbitrary placement of unfinished stories. There is shape, color, texture, form & space arranged in a pleasing way, that moves my eye thru the composition. Over & over.I gratefully recognize everything I see, but it means nothing.

Before you think I'm completely crazy, I should warn you I have had a lot of practice verbalizing the visual. Anything I have to say about this comp is meaningless & irrelevant. It stands on its own. We don't have to verbalize it, yet the exercise of doing so helps me understand why I like it. I like it because I have an emotionless appreciation of the details, & an emotional appreciation of the whole.

Voting on abstract challenges is exhausting.

jagar

Samsung Galaxy S9/S9+

06/19/2012 03:43:43 AM · #63

No problem

pixelpig, my ideas were definitely more abstract back then, knowing less is an advantage when it comes to creativity and a beginners mind has an abstract quality that withers quickly with knowledge. I understand your perspective and I would have to agree, when the smoke lifts everything has an abstract quality. The picture in question was an amalgam of loose ideas put together in a matter of minutes and it was only after taking the photo that I knew what it meant to me, it was one of those photos that I knew would work, even if I didn't know what I was doing.

06/19/2012 07:54:55 AM · #64

I know! It is very hard to have a serendipitous moment of creativity on purpose. The best thing to do is to take a camera everywhere. Always be ready for that moment when you feel it coming. I think that's something unique to photography. It's enough to motivate me to keep a camera handy all time. Talking about it later is fun, but second-place fun.

06/19/2012 08:02:41 AM · #65

Originally posted by sfalice:

Originally posted by hahn23:

Originally posted by JuliBoc:
My take is that if you're thinking "nature photograph" you may have a very difficult time with an "abstract" challenge. I plan to think "abstract" and then limit myself to nature as a source for the image. Of course "nature" is a very broad category, so I guess I'll mostly be ruling out anything manufactured by mankind.

I have placed a piece of masking tape on the back of my camera with the letters A-B-S-T-R-A-C-T printed with bold letters. I've also placed my right boot on my left foot and a Teva sandal on my other foot. This discomfort and imbalance will help me remember to "step" out-of-the-box.

Who IS this!

Dang it, do it, Richard. Now you are getting into the spirit.
...and when you are plunging in free-fall, remember to snap the shutter.

Failure on day 1. I kept reverting to my standard documentary type photography, thinking I'll get to the abstract mode later. Well, the "later" never happened. I'm going to have to venture out with more of a "single-minded" mission. There are more days left in the challenge image capture phase.

06/19/2012 10:35:41 AM · #66

double post

Message edited by author 2012-06-23 18:48:43.

posthumous

Canon EOS-40D

Canon EF 50mm f/1.8 II

06/19/2012 12:05:03 PM · #67

I would describe

jagar's photo as a casual exploration of identity and purpose, designed to entertain. As I said, it is thus abstract in a literary sense. I think the distinction is important, otherwise you risk defining the term so broadly that it's meaningless.

Breadth is good for some terms, like "art," but less so for a term like "abstract" which can be used to make esthetic descriptions and decisions.

Originally posted by "pixelpig":

It is very hard to have a serendipitous moment of creativity on purpose.

That is

jagar's specialty.

06/19/2012 12:54:04 PM · #68

Yes, I think so too.

jagar is one of my heroes. I would describe his photo as an interesting combination of the elements of composition with a strong photorealistic influence. Aside from the allegory

jagar finds in it, I can't find any literary sense to it at all. Not even symbolism, except for the red flowers.

I am not much in favor of loose definitions myself. Oddly, my definition of abstract feels specific to me. But not to you. Such is the way of Art. And words are inadequate to the task of defining anything about Art.

Abstract for me is when the work's strongest subject is any or all of the elements of composition--line, color, form, shape, texture, value, space, & point of view.

This is my favorite 'most abstract' from my own portfolio here. Also these--

Message edited by author 2012-06-19 13:28:46.

posthumous

Canon EOS-40D

Canon EF 50mm f/1.8 II

06/19/2012 02:08:18 PM · #69

Originally posted by pixelpig:

Abstract for me is when the work's strongest subject is any or all of the elements of composition--line, color, form, shape, texture, value, space, & point of view.

I like that as a good, working definition. Happily, I think our disagreement is more about a particular photo than about the term "abstract."