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07/07/2009 11:40:35 PM · #51 |
Originally posted by Carlo21:
I say we go even more basic. Let's have a straight out of the camera (no crop, no edit, no adjusting, etc) challenge. Only resize of course. What do you think? |
There is a forum for this type of photography already established as Minimal Editing: There have been several challenges under this rule set.
I think that the variety of editing parameters on this particular site enhances its ability to appeal to a broader range of photographers - and by doing so increases the skill, talent, and overall competency of its members. Just my two cents... |
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07/07/2009 11:48:22 PM · #52 |
Originally posted by ambaker:
Originally posted by Ivo:
Then let me ask this, why is there a need to separate advanced editing from basic editing? Basic editing is restrictive where advanced editing is inclusive. Many seek harbor in basic editing and never leave?
With the same film cameras using the same film, it might work. With the technological variances of the "onboard" computers housed within a DSLR, it wouldn't be a level paying field anyhow. This is where I chuckle at the hypocrisy of the digital purists in the first place. |
For the same reason you mention in your second comment above, and more. Not everyone has all the CS4, Topaz everything, bells and whistles. Basic levels the playing field for the photographer's eye. Advanced tests the mastery of the software. If you ribbon in both, then you are a master. If you can only do one or the other, you are a one trick pony.
Otherwise it is like saying that the 100 meter sprinters do not know the challenge of the marathon. And the sprinter competition is not needed because the 100 meters is included within the marathon.
Me, not only do I not know any tricks, I'm not even much of a pony. (More like a mule or some other similar term.) |
Okay then, where then does the camera end and the computer begin? And .... vice versa?
Its a point that would be very difficult to debate as the two are very much intertwined.
Like you mentioned about having all the software for post processing, the same would apply to the advanced DSLR camera that has the "pre-processing" imbedded.
For example, a 1.3 megapixel 1996 digital camera would need a significant amount of "advanced editing" to match what the brand new DSLRs offer within the camera.
How does one suggest the two can compete equally in a Basic Editing challenge?
In basic editing then, it would be reasonable to govern, or harmonize camera settings as well, would it not?
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07/07/2009 11:53:06 PM · #53 |
I'll add a couple of cents to this argument (which surfaces every couple of months)
I like basic editing, the requirement to pay close attention to details, ensure that distracting element is removed before taking the shot, and that the shot is well and evenly lit..........
I like Advanced Editing, where I can touch up a few things, adjust some areas differently, Dodge/Burn etc etc.......I do not use the full range of options in Advanced Editing, as i have not learnt them all, but will keep experimenting........
I like it when the occasional Expert Editing is thrown in, mainly to see what people with great skills come up with.......
I think the occasional, additional Minimal Editing Challenge is a good thing.............
The variety and challenges it gives I think is great. if a person wants to only do Advanced Editing, or only Basic, that is their choice.......no need to critisise them, just let them do their thing......That is one of the best things about this site........ |
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07/07/2009 11:53:30 PM · #54 |
Originally posted by Carlo21:
I say we go even more basic. Let's have a straight out of the camera (no crop, no edit, no adjusting, etc) challenge. Only resize of course. What do you think? |
If I shoot an image with a point and shoot and send my photos off to Wal-Mart for processing, they will edit them... contrast, sharpness, saturation, etc... but only to the entire image, they will not dodge and burn or otherwise edit specific points on my image. Much like Basic Editing. |
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07/08/2009 02:02:19 AM · #55 |
Originally posted by Ivo:
For example, a 1.3 megapixel 1996 digital camera would need a significant amount of "advanced editing" to match what the brand new DSLRs offer within the camera. |
I'm not sure that's true, though. Everything the "brand new dSLRs offer within the camera" is doable in basic editing, as far as I know. At least, all of it that's legal in basic editing challenges... I mean, some of them offer in-camera multiple exposures, for example, but those aren't legal. But hue, contrast, color balancing, levels, curves, noise reduction, all that stuff is legal in basic editing...
R. |
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07/08/2009 02:11:00 AM · #56 |
My two cents worth:
Keep basic editing - as some have already noted, we have users of many different experience levels. Basic is a great place to start, and a good place for the more experienced shooters to work on their own "basics" as well. (And for some to show off just how well they can edit within the limitations....)
If you don't like it, don't enter. :-) |
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07/08/2009 02:31:18 AM · #57 |
Originally posted by Melethia:
My two cents worth:
Keep basic editing - as some have already noted, we have users of many different experience levels. Basic is a great place to start, and a good place for the more experienced shooters to work on their own "basics" as well. (And for some to show off just how well they can edit within the limitations....)
If you don't like it, don't enter. :-) |
Hear Hear!!! |
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07/08/2009 10:28:12 AM · #58 |
My view - basic editing is fine, but to be content with just knowing the basics is worthless. I would assume 95% of the site views photography as a hobby and has no aspirations of it becoming a career, which is why I guess its fine that you know your clone brush and healing brush and a couple of filters, but for anyone that wishes to pursue photography as a career, in todays industry, you need to know it all, from top to bottom. Im not there yet (in the industry or knowing enough) but this is coming from profs ive had.
The more you know, the more value you add, the more money you make. |
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07/08/2009 02:57:37 PM · #59 |
Originally posted by Ivo:
Okay then, where then does the camera end and the computer begin? And .... vice versa?
Its a point that would be very difficult to debate as the two are very much intertwined.
Like you mentioned about having all the software for post processing, the same would apply to the advanced DSLR camera that has the "pre-processing" imbedded.
For example, a 1.3 megapixel 1996 digital camera would need a significant amount of "advanced editing" to match what the brand new DSLRs offer within the camera.
How does one suggest the two can compete equally in a Basic Editing challenge?
In basic editing then, it would be reasonable to govern, or harmonize camera settings as well, would it not? |
The camera ends at the USB port or memory card. (Disks for older cameras.) Yes all digital cameras have computers in them. That does not make the camera a computer, as the term is usually understood in the english language.
All cameras are not created equal, to be sure. Neither are all lenses. Your point is like arguing about prime lenses vs. zoom lenses. There is no way to make any playing field absolutely level and I believe we both know this. Which goes back to how can two people compete equally in Advanced? If one can only afford Corels PSP, how do they compete with CS4? What if they cannot even afford that, and only have GIMP? It will never be exactly level, unless all equipment, computers, and software are identical. That won't happen.
Personally, I would like to see three levels of challenges. 1. Minimal editing. 2. Advanced editing. 3. Open competion, anything goes. Add what you want, remove what you want, combine what you want, draw what you want, use any image any age, as long as it's yours. (With the exception of copyright watermarks, I hate those when trying to judge an image.)
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07/08/2009 08:10:54 PM · #60 |
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07/08/2009 08:14:56 PM · #61 |
Originally posted by ambaker:
3. Open competion, anything goes. Add what you want, remove what you want, combine what you want, draw what you want, use any image any age, as long as it's yours. (With the exception of copyright watermarks, I hate those when trying to judge an image.) |
I'd love to see this, too.
It would definitely separate the big dogs that are always squawking about limitations.
Make the image constraints larger in that one too, so we don't have to hear that......8>)
I'd love to see what would happen in that once it settled in......make it an auxillary FS....enter that, or the regular FS. |
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07/08/2009 08:22:49 PM · #62 |
Originally posted by ambaker:
Personally, I would like to see three levels of challenges. 1. Minimal editing. 2. Advanced editing. 3. Open competion, anything goes. Add what you want, remove what you want, combine what you want, draw what you want, use any image any age, as long as it's yours. (With the exception of copyright watermarks, I hate those when trying to judge an image.) |
I'm kind of against the type of open competition you suggest. Especially if it was to share common space with the regular every-day photography.
Why? Well, I feel that should the 'regular' photography fight for space with pure digital art, guess what's going to constantly lose? People are little shiny-object loving sheep, for the most part, and if I had to constantly look at what I consider to be so far outside the realm of photography it's not even funny as a regular front page offering, I'd quickly lose any and all appetite for this place. The last thing I want to be exposed to HERE are outlandish 'photographs' of things with clip-art, planets, warpings, morphings, etc, etc, etc, on a weekly basis. (I see that you put 'as long as its yours, and that would help cut down on some things, but not enough).
I don't know why people always want something that is already something great to constantly become something else? If you've moved on to a place where digital art is your forte, guess what, there's a hundred places to expose that work at out there. Why should a photography site also start including digital art works as part of its base in order to please a few outspoken people?
Do we really want our regular works constantly put up against and judged against COMPLETELY unrealistic artist renditions? I don't think so.
The occasional 'have at 'er for fun' is fine. Part of a regular routine? I'd be out of here. |
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07/08/2009 08:53:00 PM · #63 |
Might as well allow watercolor, oil paintings, pastels and charcoal drawings then. Except this is a digital PHOTOGRAPHY site. Using the computer as a drawing/painting tool does not qualify as photography. Nothing against it, just not photography.
But I do take exception to being called a little shiny-object-loving sheep, though. I mean that is just uncalled for and unfai---SHINY!!.........................
Message edited by author 2009-07-08 20:54:19. |
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07/08/2009 09:08:02 PM · #64 |
Wow. Photography doesn't have to come to resemble IncrediMail just because the site might allow full use of editing software.
[eta]
....SHINY!
Message edited by author 2009-07-08 21:08:51. |
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07/08/2009 09:14:39 PM · #65 |
Next thing you know those fatawgraphers with them fancy computers will be playin their rock n roll music and trampling on my flowers.
I remember when we used to make our own film outa beeswax.
Yeah them were the days!
Now excuse me, I'm gonna go listen to my new 8 track player!
;-) |
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07/09/2009 12:07:00 AM · #66 |
Originally posted by chromeydome:
Might as well allow watercolor, oil paintings, pastels and charcoal drawings then. Except this is a digital PHOTOGRAPHY site. Using the computer as a drawing/painting tool does not qualify as photography. Nothing against it, just not photography.
But I do take exception to being called a little shiny-object-loving sheep, though. I mean that is just uncalled for and unfai---SHINY!!......................... |
BAM-WOW Chopper! Go get the little piece of tin-foil. Go get it boy, get it! Good boy. |
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07/09/2009 12:24:19 AM · #67 |
Are we ready for this yet?
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07/09/2009 12:56:36 AM · #68 |
I love basic edit rules!
It gives me a chance to be more creative and win!
Message edited by author 2009-07-09 00:57:24. |
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