Reflections Without Mirrors III Recalculated

Carl Zeiss 50mm ZE f/1.4 Planar T for Canon

11/17/2006 05:33:48 AM · #101

Originally posted by Bear_Music:

Originally posted by Falc:

Originally posted by Bear_Music:

Would you agree that the bounding box created by the crop tool is a selection? The rules certainly specifically treat it as one, and give it a special exemption. And it is identical the cntrl-T bounding box...

R.

No the bounded box is not a selection in this case it is the whole image. How can that be a selection?

You cannot crop without selecting an area to crop to. The bounding box is the means by which you define that selection. You cannot transform without defining an area to transform. The bounding box defines the area that is being transformed. That the area selected/defined is the entire image is neither here nor there. The bounding box with the handles on it IS a selection.

R.

I don't get a bounding box when I crop. I use the selection tool and then image/crop and it crops. No control points and no bounding box is shown.

Message edited by author 2006-11-17 05:35:07.

Falc

Canon EOS-1D Mark III

Canon EF 16-35mm f/2.8L USM

11/17/2006 05:34:46 AM · #102

I disagree - selection infers selecting something from something. When you choose the whole it is not a selection

Bear_Music

Samsung Galaxy S24 Ultra

Sony 24-70mm F4 Vario-Tessar T* FE OSS

11/17/2006 05:36:09 AM · #103

Originally posted by yanko:

I don't get a bounding box when I crop. I use the selection tool and then edit/crop and it crops. No control points and no bounding box is shown.

Uh huh, but if you use the crop tool, the bounding box is the selection. Anything else is semantics. You make the selection with the marquee tool, I make it with the crop tool, semantics.

R.

yanko

Carl Zeiss 50mm ZE f/1.4 Planar T for Canon

11/17/2006 05:38:17 AM · #104

Originally posted by Bear_Music:

Originally posted by yanko:

I don't get a bounding box when I crop. I use the selection tool and then edit/crop and it crops. No control points and no bounding box is shown.

Uh huh, but if you use the crop tool, the bounding box is the selection. Anything else is semantics. You make the selection with the marquee tool, I make it with the crop tool, semantics.

R.

Actually no. When you use the crop tool if you notice it will show a bounding box AND a selection (denoted by the moving dashes). Why show both if they are one in the same?

Notice you don't get the dashes when you use the tranform tools only the bounding box. Reason why because there is no selection involved unless of course you select something before hand.

Edited for clarity.

Message edited by author 2006-11-17 05:41:17.

slide12345678

Canon EOS-5D

Canon EF 28-135mm f/3.5-5.6 IS USM

11/17/2006 05:50:43 AM · #105

the crop tool is definitely more ideal because you can set your long dimension to '640 px' before you crop (leaving the other one blank), and it will resize exactly while cropping (assuming you want the largest size available to you)

ClubJuggle

Canon EOS-400D Rebel XTi

11/17/2006 07:23:59 AM · #106

Originally posted by Falc:

The old rules were undefensible, they had holes all over them, this is one such example. The literal interpretation of the text allows this transformation. Therefore the image is legal.

The new rule set has been established to fix the holes but were not in force for this challenge. The reason for DQ quoted by the SC was taken from the NEW rule set, which is wrong. The blue should be re-instated or the reason for DQ re-worded.

I've reworded the reason. To perform a distort, even on an unlocked layer, you must drag the anchor and center points points around selectively, and in doing so choose which portions of the image will and will not be included in the end result of the action, and at what relative position to each other.

~Terry

Message edited by author 2006-11-17 07:24:34.

Keith Maniac

Canon EOS-350D Rebel XT

Sigma 30mm f/1.4 EX DC HSM for Canon

11/17/2006 08:35:43 AM · #107

Originally posted by ClubJuggle:

Originally posted by Falc:
The old rules were undefensible, they had holes all over them, this is one such example. The literal interpretation of the text allows this transformation. Therefore the image is legal.

The new rule set has been established to fix the holes but were not in force for this challenge. The reason for DQ quoted by the SC was taken from the NEW rule set, which is wrong. The blue should be re-instated or the reason for DQ re-worded.

I've reworded the reason. To perform a distort, even on an unlocked layer, you must drag the anchor and center points points around selectively, and in doing so choose which portions of the image will and will not be included in the end result of the action, and at what relative position to each other.

~Terry

I like how you carefully worked the word "selectively" into the reason (just giving you a hard time ;) When you do a curves adjustment, you grab little anchor points and "selectively" drag them around, and in doing so choose which portions of the image will and will not be included in the end result of the action, and yet curves is allowed in Basic. The only difference is that the portions are chosen tonally, and not spatially.

Anyway, it seems to me that dsidwell did a simple one dimensional stretch, which did not selectively choose which portion of the image was included in the action. The whole image was affected uniformly.

dahved

Canon EOS-50D

Tamron AF 18-270mm F/3,5-6,3 Di II VC LD Aspherical [IF] macro for Canon

11/17/2006 08:38:27 AM · #108

Originally posted by slide12345678:

Of course, with the Marquee tool, you can set the aspect ratio, and then resize to 640 px on the longest side with Image Size.

dahved

Canon EOS-50D

Tamron AF 18-270mm F/3,5-6,3 Di II VC LD Aspherical [IF] macro for Canon

11/17/2006 08:40:54 AM · #109

Originally posted by Keith Maniac:

...Anyway, it seems to me that dsidwell did a simple one dimensional stretch, which did not selectively choose which portion of the image was included in the action. The whole image was affected uniformly.

I bet he did a two-dimensional stretch... :-)

Sigma 30mm f/1.4 EX DC HSM for Canon

11/17/2006 09:18:20 AM · #110

Originally posted by Keith Maniac:

When you do a curves adjustment, you grab little anchor points and "selectively" drag them around, and in doing so choose which portions of the image will and will not be included in the end result of the action, and yet curves is allowed in Basic.

Originally posted by scalvert:

The Basic Rules allow global edits that enhance the quality of the image as-captured. They allow adjustment of color, tonality, degree of sharpness and noise removal. Other than cropping, they don't allow anything that would "physically" change the content of the image (cloning, distortion, etc.).

This is only so much arm waving. To use the distort tool, you must either make a selection or make the image a data layer, both of which are prohibited. Distortions in Basic have always been DQ'd, and the new rules should make that clear. That's one of the reasons we have new rules.

Keith Maniac

Canon EOS-350D Rebel XT

11/17/2006 09:49:59 AM · #111

Originally posted by scalvert:

Distortions in Basic have always been DQ'd, and the new rules should make that clear. That's one of the reasons we have new rules.

Just because distortions have always been DQ'd in Basic doesn't mean that there is a rule you can point to that prohibits them. It seems that the only way to know for sure what is/isn't considered legal around here is to look at the history of what has/hasn't been DQ'd in the past, rather than look at the rules themselves. I'm not sure it's fair to expect people to be familiar with the case history of DPC disqualifications.

I'm sure that the new rules are clear, but I don't see how the new rules are relevant to this discussion. Dsidwell was DQ'd based on the old rules.

Again, I'm being argumentative 'cuz it's fun, but also because I believe there's some truth to what I'm saying.

Sigma 15mm f/2.8 EX Diagonal Fisheye for Nikon

11/17/2006 10:00:45 AM · #112

Originally posted by Keith Maniac:

Just because distortions have always been DQ'd in Basic doesn't mean that there is a rule you can point to that prohibits them.

Like I said, you can't use the Distort tool unless you either make a selection or move your image from the background to a data layer. Both are prohibited, and I CAN point to them:

...the use of any type of selection tool is prohibited except to select a non-feathered, non-anti-aliased rectangular area for cropping.

Only Adjustment Layers (or the non-Photoshop equivalent) may be used. ... All other types of layers (including those that contain pixel data or masks) and all other blending methods (modes) are prohibited.

Gordon

RIM BlackBerry Curve

Canon EF 85mm f/1.8 USM

11/17/2006 10:21:15 AM · #113

Originally posted by ursula:

Not taking sides here, just because I like giving scalvert a hard time, GO Richard yanko!

:)))) *HUGE GRIN*

muckpond

Nikon D200

11/17/2006 10:22:22 AM · #114

seconded.

Keith Maniac

Canon EOS-350D Rebel XT

Sigma 30mm f/1.4 EX DC HSM for Canon

11/17/2006 10:24:53 AM · #115

Whether you agree or disagree with scalvert, you have to admire the tenacity with which he defends the rules, challenge after challenge after challenge :)

11/17/2006 10:35:47 AM · #116

That's why they pay me the big buck... um, HEYYYYY!

Gordon

RIM BlackBerry Curve

Canon EF 85mm f/1.8 USM

11/17/2006 10:38:34 AM · #117

Originally posted by scalvert:

That's why they pay me the big buck... um, HEYYYYY!

Hey - I heard on the podcast that y'all get your memberships paid for.
Who knows what other perks you modern SCs get!!!

Message edited by author 2006-11-17 10:38:57.

Canon EF 70-200mm f/4.0L USM

11/17/2006 10:41:39 AM · #118

Originally posted by Gordon:

I heard on the podcast that y'all get your memberships paid for.

I didn't even know that until several months after I volunteered... and I had just renewed a few weeks prior. :-/

glad2badad

Apple iPhone 16 Pro

Lensbaby Sweet 35 Optic

11/17/2006 10:42:44 AM · #119

Hi. Not trying to be disrespectful to the photo mentioned in this thread that was DQ'd - I'm curious, when I was browsing the Photos/Recently Commented on Photos area of DPC I ran across the DQ'd image. It still shows a blue ribbon next to it?

karmat

Apple iPhone 7

11/17/2006 10:42:55 AM · #120

me too. :) (in response to scalvert's post, not barry's)

Message edited by author 2006-11-17 10:44:42.

Gordon

RIM BlackBerry Curve

Canon EF 85mm f/1.8 USM

11/17/2006 10:52:42 AM · #121

Originally posted by scalvert:

Originally posted by Gordon:
I heard on the podcast that y'all get your memberships paid for.

I didn't even know that until several months after I volunteered... and I had just renewed a few weeks prior. :-/

Yeah, I must be owed a couple of years in back rent ;)

Artifacts

11/17/2006 11:45:38 AM · #122

Ohhhhh... Major Bummer!!!

David Sidwell is one of my absolute favorite photographers at DPC. I have had the distinct honor and pleasure of getting to go on a photo safari with him. I'm a groupie of his work.

David, my friend, it was a pleasant surprise to see your name once again on the winner's page. Bummer that rules changes got you. DPC is growing and changing.

No big deal. It isn't as if you need lots more ribbons. You proved your worth as a landscape photographer many, many, many times over.

You are blue ribbon in my book!

Sony 24-70mm F4 Vario-Tessar T* FE OSS

11/17/2006 11:47:17 AM · #123

Originally posted by stdavidson:

it was a pleasant surprise to see your name once again on the winner's page.

Absolutely! David was one of my very first favorites. :-)

Bear_Music

Samsung Galaxy S24 Ultra

11/17/2006 12:16:18 PM · #124

Originally posted by stdavidson:

Bummer that rules changes got you. DPC is growing and changing.

No big deal. It isn't as if you need lots more ribbons.

Steve, the "rules change" didn't "get" him; this challenge was the last one conducted under the old basic rules, and the NEW basic rules explicitly forbid what he did anyway. These people in this thread are nit-picking the wording of the now-defunct rules :-)

Note: include me in the "these people" category; I'm enjoying this for some odd reason :-)

R.

Artifacts