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06/12/2009 02:55:30 AM · #251 |
DQ?
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06/12/2009 02:58:37 AM · #252 |
Originally posted by karmat:
Originally posted by vawendy:
Originally posted by Chinarosepetal:
Poor guy, I expect he was seriously, seriously traumatised by his near death experience. He entered his photo as maybe a bit of therapy, his way of sharing what happened to him? Who knows, but maybe the DQ of an image of him lying in intensive care, an image he wanted to share with us, was a step too far, it was certainly a highly inappropriate action in my opinion, given the circumstances. There are times when rules don't apply, this was one of them. |
I think this is the only argument that holds water. It did seem unnecessary to DQ a 75th placed entry. But read the personal forums--there are a lot of people who are going through terribly difficult times in their lives. Where do you stop making exceptions? |
can you even imagine the forum storms that would result if we tried to do this.
"I know this shot is out of date, but she is having such a hard time right now. . . "
"I know you can't spot edit in basic, but his life is a shambles right now. . ."
I truly hate that what should have been an ordinary procedure for something turned into a harrowing ordeal, and I'm glad he seems to have recovered fully. The rules are in place for every entry, not just those of us that are healthy, happy, and/or having a grand ole time in life. |
I doubt there is one of us that gets through life unscathed by emotional or physical trauma, so no it would be ridiculous to make allowances for that and I was not suggesting it. What makes this different, and therefore totally straightforward to make a rule exception for, is that physically he had no other option than to take the photograph that way. What little input was available to him he utilised fully. That to me is what makes this a 'no brainer' for the SC.
The examples of daughters shooting deer etc seem to completely miss this point. |
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06/12/2009 02:59:23 AM · #253 |
Originally posted by Simms:
My Daughter asked me to take a photo...
"Are you going to that park tomorrow morning Daddy?"
"Yes Babe, why?"
"Can you Take a picture of a deer for me please? One of the deer with the big horns."
"Of course babe!"
"Thanks! You're the best Daddy in the world!"
And this is her photo, man my daughter is an AWESOME photographer..
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i am amazed at your daughter's post processing skill though. Seems better than yours. :-D
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06/12/2009 03:12:59 AM · #254 |
He may have had no other option for obtaining the photo but he DID have options when posting it on DPC. He did not have to enter it in a challenge, subject to rules that he already suspected were violated--he could have shared it via a forum thread dedicated to his image, posted it in the pre-deadline challenge thread, the challenge score thread, or the post-challenge outakes thread (noting in the post that he suspected it would not qualify, so had not entered it)
He also had the option to accept the DQ, to protest, to stay a member, or to leave.
He had lots of options and he made his choices. |
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06/12/2009 03:19:58 AM · #255 |
wow every single time i checked into dpc or refreshed the site since yesterday morning this thread was on top of the frontpage.
get on with your lifes people. |
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06/12/2009 03:20:42 AM · #256 |
Originally posted by Art Roflmao:
DQ?
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ROFLMAO
But the funniest thing is, this is almost exactly what he did. |
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06/12/2009 03:40:46 AM · #257 |
Originally posted by Mephisto:
wow every single time i checked into dpc or refreshed the site since yesterday morning this thread was on top of the frontpage.
get on with your lifes people. |
This IS my lifes. |
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06/12/2009 03:53:17 AM · #258 |
Originally posted by chromeydome:
He may have had no other option for obtaining the photo but he DID have options when posting it on DPC. He did not have to enter it in a challenge, subject to rules that he already suspected were violated--he could have shared it via a forum thread dedicated to his image, posted it in the pre-deadline challenge thread, the challenge score thread, or the post-challenge outakes thread (noting in the post that he suspected it would not qualify, so had not entered it)
He also had the option to accept the DQ, to protest, to stay a member, or to leave.
He had lots of options and he made his choices. |
He entered the image believing it to be a valid entry (IMO it was) he expressed concern that others might not fully understand the circumstances and question it - how right he was (sadly). |
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06/12/2009 04:02:42 AM · #259 |
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06/12/2009 05:25:43 AM · #260 |
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06/12/2009 06:25:21 AM · #261 |
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06/12/2009 06:27:22 AM · #262 |
| ridiculous DQ. Just like refs in football...sometimes you gotta let the players play. SC need to do a better job of staying outta situations sometimes. Ridiculous. |
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06/12/2009 06:50:40 AM · #263 |
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06/12/2009 06:59:12 AM · #264 |
Originally posted by zxaar:
Originally posted by Greetmir:
IMO ... setting up a camera THEN putting it on a tripod and asking someone to hit the shutter (if la ... la ... la ... and your remote cord is too short and you can't afford an infrared or other cordless remote) is a BOATload different than saying, "Take a picture of me on your camera on full auto and kind of aim it in my general direction." ... BLEH.
If I called such a photo MY photo ... I would not be able to sleep at night.
me |
actually it all depends on the context and situation. if you are too sick and tied to bed, i do not see how you could set up all that tripod and all. But you still wanted a shot. There is no other way but to tell someone to point at you and shoot. (i mean photo). I am sure in this situation you could sleep well knowing that you have the shot you needed despite troubling situation you were in. |
HAVING the shot that I needed and ENTERING the shot in a competition as MINE is two greatly different things IMO
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06/12/2009 07:17:57 AM · #265 |
Originally posted by Greetmir:
Originally posted by zxaar:
Originally posted by Greetmir:
IMO ... setting up a camera THEN putting it on a tripod and asking someone to hit the shutter (if la ... la ... la ... and your remote cord is too short and you can't afford an infrared or other cordless remote) is a BOATload different than saying, "Take a picture of me on your camera on full auto and kind of aim it in my general direction." ... BLEH.
If I called such a photo MY photo ... I would not be able to sleep at night.
me |
actually it all depends on the context and situation. if you are too sick and tied to bed, i do not see how you could set up all that tripod and all. But you still wanted a shot. There is no other way but to tell someone to point at you and shoot. (i mean photo). I am sure in this situation you could sleep well knowing that you have the shot you needed despite troubling situation you were in. |
HAVING the shot that I needed and ENTERING the shot in a competition as MINE is two greatly different things IMO |
if i read you correctly you are implying that he was cheating and was dishonest.
Since this thread is few pages long and there are so many people who stands his side i do not think that he was entering a shot knowing that it is somebody else's shot.
He had been much more honest than many of the guys i have seen at DPC.
At least he is much better than guys who start thread asking for freind voting on their photos and he had been much better than guys who go and vote on such requests.
guilty because 'i-think-so' is not good attitude i guess. SC had been wrong on many occasions before, and it is not the last time few members do not agree with decision. Life goes on but just because someone's photo got disqualified it does not automatically makes him cheat.
Sorry for rant, but i am supposed to speak my mind. |
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06/12/2009 07:25:42 AM · #266 |
| by saying SC you mean Site Counsil right? they decided to cancel his profile because they think that the photo in motivotional poster was cheating? |
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06/12/2009 07:25:47 AM · #267 |
I agree that the DQ sucks but I also think it was fair. I think setting up a shot implies that you were looking through the viewfinder at some point and seeing at least part of the scene before the shutter is released. I think the provision in the rules is there so that you can get another person to press the shutter and that's about it. If you aren't using a tripod then you pretty much line up the shot you want, hand the camera over to someone else and they press the shutter at the correct time.
I think, as mentioned previously, that the reason why people are so offended by this DQ is because jlanoue was in a hospital bed. If we changed the circumstances and have him sitting on a beach on a chair and the same shot was taken there would be no debate over who took the shot. Again, as mentioned previously, the rules don't change just because you are in a hospital bed.
I also think bashing site council on this call is wrong. Its a lot like watching parents at a kids hockey or baseball game screaming at the ref/umpire because they made a call they didn't like. The rules apply to everyone and we have to all play by them. How many times have we heard about DQ's because someone had the wrong date/time on their camera? Those suck and they are obviously mistakes but nevertheless SC doesn't make exceptions in these cases.
Shannon mentioned previously that this was a unanimous decision and it was pretty much a no-brainer. In fact, they went with leniency and didn't penalize him as they could have. And the fact that jlanoue wrote in the photographer's comments "Could this get DQ'd if challenged?" makes me believe that the DQ wasn't a complete surprise.
That's just my two cents on this debate. |
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06/12/2009 07:26:39 AM · #268 |
Originally posted by nolito:
by saying SC you mean Site Counsil right? they decided to cancel his profile because they think that the photo in motivotional poster was cheating? |
According to an earlier post jlanoue asked for his account to be deleted because of the DQ. |
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06/12/2009 08:02:38 AM · #269 |
| OK, this is getting old already but I have one more observation: One SC member did state that it was a UNANIMOUS DQ vote. However, another SC member stated they didn't vote on the DQ. So which is it? Can't have a unanimous vote if all SC didn't participate. Wouldn't it be more correct to say 'of all SC who voted on the DQ the vote was unanimous for DQ'? |
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06/12/2009 08:04:59 AM · #270 |
Wow! 
side note - I agree with your 7:25am post Craig ( Citadel). |
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06/12/2009 08:20:10 AM · #271 |
Originally posted by CEJ:
OK, this is getting old already but I have one more observation: One SC member did state that it was a UNANIMOUS DQ vote. However, another SC member stated they didn't vote on the DQ. So which is it? Can't have a unanimous vote if all SC didn't participate. Wouldn't it be more correct to say 'of all SC who voted on the DQ the vote was unanimous for DQ'? |
to clarify: a quorum of the SC voted unanimously to DQ the photo. |
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06/12/2009 08:41:38 AM · #272 |
Life is all about what you can get away with.
It comes down to how you handle getting caught.
You either blame it on those that called you out.
Or you accept it and take your punishment.
If you can't do the time, don't do the crime.
Out of all of the posts to this thread, the "at least having looked through the viewfinder" is the most succinct one of all.
There have been lots of earnest debates over rules interpretations in the past, but I think this one just doesn't cut it in terms of moving the site forward.
If anything, it hammers out the difference between a concept shot and a captured image. As soon as we read the new challenge descriptions, we all get a rush of ideas as to what we'd like to do. Then it comes down to having the time, equipment, and skill necessary to realize that vision, or the luck to happen across something to shoot that actually meets the challenge. Most of the time, it's a matter of shoe-horning something in and hoping that it works, or, attempting something that just doesn't connect. Unfortunately, it's really easy to buy into an image or an idea for an image as "this is my big chance. This is the one that is going to ribbon!" That's fine, as long as you stay within the rules. Otherwise, you know you're playing with fire.
You can split hairs until the cows come home debating "wife vs girlfriend", "cellcam-full automatic vs dSLV-full manual", "bed-ridden vs beach-side", etc., ad naseum. You can blow this up into a whole nother devisive argument. You can keep going round and round over semantics.
But,
the bottomline for me is quite simple:
HE NEVER LOOKED THROUGH THE VIEWFINDER
He never should have entered the challenge.
I remember sitting in my elementary school principal's office as a party to a dispute that required the principal's "mediation." When he tired of watching us kids not making sense over something petty, he simply said, "that's enough boys, I've got better things to do. Take it outside, off the school property, have it out, and, if you know what's good for you, leave it there. Good day, gentlemen!"
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06/12/2009 08:51:31 AM · #273 |
Originally posted by Skip:
I remember sitting in my elementary school principal's office as a party to a dispute that required the principal's "mediation." When he tired of watching us kids not making sense over something petty, he simply said, "that's enough boys, I've got better things to do. Take it outside, off the school property, have it out, and, if you know what's good for you, leave it there. Good day, gentlemen!" |
LOL how different things are around the world, this very thing is the reason I was always IN the heads office ;)
To keep it on topic:
Fair DQ BUT IMHO opinion SC could have just ignored the details within the pic and moved on just this once, crikey someone's life was nearly cut short and at the end of the day the DQ didn't make a huge difference to the challenge results...
Message edited by author 2009-06-12 08:52:25. |
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06/12/2009 08:55:44 AM · #274 |
Originally posted by Skip:
... the bottomline for me is quite simple: ... |
There are reasons for selecting a photographer on this site as a "favorite", and not all of them related to the photographer's skills at capturing an image. Thanks for reminding me Skip of why I selected you years ago.
BTW - I think you capture some mighty fine images too! :-D |
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06/12/2009 09:08:34 AM · #275 |
Originally posted by GeneralE:
Originally posted by LoudDog:
And I think it really sucks that SC never even asked him any questions before throwing it out. That sucks. |
Emhasis added ...
Originally posted by karmat:
And while we didn't have all the details, subsequent correspondence with him (that you seem to want to ignore) didn't reveal anything new to us that would have altered the decision before we knew it. |
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Yes or no, was the DQ given before any questions were asked of him?
That's the point.
Saying after you made you decision you got more evidence and did not change your mind is all good, but typically when playing judge a person should get all the info before making a judgement. |
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