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 10/24/2008 06:30:58 PM · #1
I've been thinking about several issues that are discussed and have come up with an idea. First, I hear complaints about the size (number of entries) in the Free Study each month. Second, I've heard a lot of discussion about expert or extreme editing.

My idea is to divide the Free Study into a pair of mutually exclusive Free Study challenges with different rules. E.g. one with Advanced Editing, and one with Expert Editing. That way, people who like to combine and manipulate photos: use overlays, time-lapse techniques, triptychs, HDR, etc. could be judged separately from the people who like to keep their photography truer to the original image.

And by dividing the Free Study challenge, it would be less discouraging to vote, since the pure number of entries is sometimes a turn off.
 10/24/2008 08:48:47 PM · #2
Good idea. Although, I'd like to see it not 'Exclusive' - another benefit of being a Member is you can enter both, you just have to follow the Rules.

I'd also like to see month long voting for month long Challenges.. That and/or weekly Free Studies..

10/24/2008 10:39:26 PM · #3
The reason I suggested they be exclusive was to cut down on the number of entries in each challenge. However your suggestion of voting all month, would help with the problem of voting on so many entries too.
 10/24/2008 11:25:18 PM · #4
I like the idea of splitting the freestudy. I like to do a lot of commenting and the freestudy is a real chore because of the size. Either splitting it or allowing more voting time would be a good thing, though I don't know If I would want voting to go on for a whole month. What about reducing the voting percentage requirement for a freestudy?
 10/24/2008 11:30:55 PM · #5
this sounds like a good idea to me. would you be able to enter both free studies or just one?
 10/25/2008 01:09:53 AM · #6
sounds like an excellent idea to have the expert editing .. of course .. lol .. !!
i'm not sure why they arent doing the expert edit challenges any more, but i think they found it a bit difficult to define the rules .. ?? .. .. i know it was the case with time lapse.. just so many complications .. the time lapse debate ..
and there's the debate about this being a photographic site, not a digital art site .. i think the two go hand in hand, but that's me ..
dividing the free study up into two sounds like a good idea .. it can be off--putting for some ppl when confronted with more than 500 images to vote on .. or even 20% of them ..
i wouldnt want a challenge where the voting went on for a whole month tho .. just too long .. :)
and if i do vote on a challenge i try and vote on all the entries because i dont see how i can give a 'realistic' score without seeing everything .. :)
anyway .. Julianne JuliBoc, i'd say put it in as a suggestion .. they could actually do something along those lines if enough ppl said they wanted it ..:)

Message edited by author 2008-10-25 01:11:35.
 10/25/2008 12:40:59 PM · #7
I like it! The idea that art & photography are mutually exclusive forms of self-expression is popular only among photographers who don't do art. IMHO. You gotta respect other people's phobia's, though. I would be excited to see DPC allow one Free-for-all 'Fight Club' Free Study each month. Wonderful, exciting photography-based works of art are offered by many members here & I would love a competition to see what is voted onto the front page. IF it's gonna be another HDR landscape...yawn.
 10/25/2008 12:57:39 PM · #8
Originally posted by pixelpig:
I like it! The idea that art & photography are mutually exclusive forms of self-expression is popular only among photographers who don't do art. IMHO. You gotta respect other people's phobia's, though. I would be excited to see DPC allow one Free-for-all 'Fight Club' Free Study each month. Wonderful, exciting photography-based works of art are offered by many members here & I would love a competition to see what is voted onto the front page. IF it's gonna be another HDR landscape...yawn.


Photography is an art in and of itself. Digital Art can incorporate photography, but is another stand-alone art form. Like drawing and painting, one can incorporate the other, but both stand on their own. It is not a phobia if people wish to stick to one form or the other.

While photography and digital art aren't always mutually exclusive, nor are they mutually inclusive, and I for one am glad that this website recognizes that.

That's not to say there shouldn't be 'expert editing' challenges, or more of them if the call is strong enough (although that term bugs me. Being able to use photoshop badly allows you to enter such challenges, but hardly makes you an expert at anything, hehe) but this mindset that people are somehow scared or phobic because they don't want any part of it has no place here.

*EDIT* So as not to fully threadjack, I also love the idea of splitting the Free Study into exclusive challenges as the open challenges are done. It is entirely beneficial, and unlike the open challenges, you don't have to worry about running out of challenge topics faster. lol.

Splitting it into 'digital art editing' and 'advanced editing' (I henceforth refuse to use the term 'expert') is a good idea, although I think that you could also switch it up from month to month. Maybe 'minimal' and 'basic' or 'member' and 'registered', etc.

Message edited by author 2008-10-25 13:03:31.
 10/25/2008 01:26:47 PM · #9
Originally posted by pixelpig:
IF it's gonna be another HDR landscape...yawn.


HEY! I resemble that remark....

R.
 10/25/2008 01:30:41 PM · #10
Originally posted by K10DGuy:
So as not to fully threadjack, I also love the idea of splitting the Free Study into exclusive challenges as the open challenges are done. It is entirely beneficial, and unlike the open challenges, you don't have to worry about running out of challenge topics faster. lol.

Splitting it into 'digital art editing' and 'advanced editing' (I henceforth refuse to use the term 'expert') is a good idea, although I think that you could also switch it up from month to month. Maybe 'minimal' and 'basic' or 'member' and 'registered', etc.


I've always liked the idea of splitting the monthly Free Study into two "topical" groups; say, "Landscape/Abstract" and "Portrait/Other". For me the hardest part about voting in Free Studies is how difficult it is to compare apples to oranges, so to speak.

R.
 10/25/2008 01:34:49 PM · #11
Originally posted by Bear_Music:
Originally posted by K10DGuy:
So as not to fully threadjack, I also love the idea of splitting the Free Study into exclusive challenges as the open challenges are done. It is entirely beneficial, and unlike the open challenges, you don't have to worry about running out of challenge topics faster. lol.

Splitting it into 'digital art editing' and 'advanced editing' (I henceforth refuse to use the term 'expert') is a good idea, although I think that you could also switch it up from month to month. Maybe 'minimal' and 'basic' or 'member' and 'registered', etc.


I've always liked the idea of splitting the monthly Free Study into two "topical" groups; say, "Landscape/Abstract" and "Portrait/Other". For me the hardest part about voting in Free Studies is how difficult it is to compare apples to oranges, so to speak.

R.


I think that kind of defeats the purpose of "Free Study". I know it's hard, but so far I've been able to take most photos on their own merits. Maybe it becomes harder to do the longer one is a part of the site and votes on things, I don't know. I kind of feel that if you were to make it topical like that, you'd need to have a dozen or so topics every month. Again, defeating the purpose of "free". Then we're in danger of it just becoming more topic challenges anyway.
 10/25/2008 01:37:08 PM · #12
Originally posted by Bear_Music:
Originally posted by K10DGuy:
So as not to fully threadjack, I also love the idea of splitting the Free Study into exclusive challenges as the open challenges are done. It is entirely beneficial, and unlike the open challenges, you don't have to worry about running out of challenge topics faster. lol.

Splitting it into 'digital art editing' and 'advanced editing' (I henceforth refuse to use the term 'expert') is a good idea, although I think that you could also switch it up from month to month. Maybe 'minimal' and 'basic' or 'member' and 'registered', etc.


I've always liked the idea of splitting the monthly Free Study into two "topical" groups; say, "Landscape/Abstract" and "Portrait/Other". For me the hardest part about voting in Free Studies is how difficult it is to compare apples to oranges, so to speak.

R.

Since we are voting on the quality of individual photos rather than ranking them, this shouldn't be a problem. Vote landscapes as to how well the fulfill that genre, and portraits as to how effective it is as an example of portraiture -- no need to "compare" those two photos ....

It seems to me the idea of splitting them is to vote on photos which have all had the same degree of editing applied, so that you don't have HDR landscapes competing with those shot with a pocket P&S, giving people the freedom to explore the editing level they prefer. Personally, almost all of my images stick to Basic editing rules, so I'd be more likely to enter that or the Minimal division ...

Message edited by author 2008-10-25 13:48:42.
 10/25/2008 01:44:30 PM · #13
Originally posted by GeneralE:
Originally posted by Bear_Music:
I've always liked the idea of splitting the monthly Free Study into two "topical" groups; say, "Landscape/Abstract" and "Portrait/Other". For me the hardest part about voting in Free Studies is how difficult it is to compare apples to oranges, so to speak.

Since we are voting on the quality of individual photos rather than ranking them, this shouldn't be a problem. Vote landscapes as to how well the fulfill that genre, and portraits as to how effective it is as an example of portraiture -- no need to "compare" those two photos ....


Well, for me it still is. Not a major problem mind you, but a *conceptual* issue. Here's why: generally, I prefer landscapes to portraits, for example. So I am inclined to vote a little upscale on landscapes and be a little more critical of portraits. It's not a big bias, but you can turn my head more easily with a landscape.

Now let's suppose, for the sake of argument, that it could be shown that DPC, collectively, is slightly biased towards landscapes just as I am. Then it would follow that it is *more likely* that the top-10 rankings of a Free Study would tend to favor landscapes over portraits, which would be somewhat disheartening to those who feel they shot a flawless, exhilarating portrait image only to see it edged out by 3 flawless, exhilarating landscape images.

I'm not saying this *happens*, mind you, I haven't studied it, but it's the issue that ties me up just a little conceptually. And since Free Studies come only once a month and tend to be huge in size, it makes sense to me we might split them into two broad categories and eliminate that specter altogether?

It's just a thought...

R.
 10/25/2008 01:50:59 PM · #14
If we have Landscape/Abstract, abstracts will get creamed. :-) Other possible divisions are People, Places, Things. But that would be three....

I do like the idea of letting the layers folks (and the other creative types) show off their stuff - maybe have a special FS once a quarter with no holds barred in addition to the monthly FS for that month?
 10/25/2008 02:09:42 PM · #15
The original suggestion - split the FS between 2 editing levels, expert/mega and advanced - sounds OK both for showing the possibilities of the former and for the lighter voting menus. Also like the idea of splitting it among lesser editing levels. (I would be submitting to the latter, enjoying the former).
 10/25/2008 02:22:14 PM · #16
Originally posted by Bear_Music:
Originally posted by GeneralE:
Originally posted by Bear_Music:
I've always liked the idea of splitting the monthly Free Study into two "topical" groups; say, "Landscape/Abstract" and "Portrait/Other". For me the hardest part about voting in Free Studies is how difficult it is to compare apples to oranges, so to speak.

Since we are voting on the quality of individual photos rather than ranking them, this shouldn't be a problem. Vote landscapes as to how well the fulfill that genre, and portraits as to how effective it is as an example of portraiture -- no need to "compare" those two photos ....


Well, for me it still is. Not a major problem mind you, but a *conceptual* issue. Here's why: generally, I prefer landscapes to portraits, for example. So I am inclined to vote a little upscale on landscapes and be a little more critical of portraits. It's not a big bias, but you can turn my head more easily with a landscape.

Now let's suppose, for the sake of argument, that it could be shown that DPC, collectively, is slightly biased towards landscapes just as I am. Then it would follow that it is *more likely* that the top-10 rankings of a Free Study would tend to favor landscapes over portraits, which would be somewhat disheartening to those who feel they shot a flawless, exhilarating portrait image only to see it edged out by 3 flawless, exhilarating landscape images.

I'm not saying this *happens*, mind you, I haven't studied it, but it's the issue that ties me up just a little conceptually. And since Free Studies come only once a month and tend to be huge in size, it makes sense to me we might split them into two broad categories and eliminate that specter altogether?

It's just a thought...

R.


I looked over the last few Free Studies, and I have to tell you, there's no evidence either way that any of that kind of bias is particularly stronger than the other. Some Free Studies have more landscapes winning, some have more portraits, some have a fairly even distribution. I think it's safe to say that strong, DPC photos, no matter what topical representation, get their dues in a Free Study.
 10/25/2008 08:55:38 PM · #17
I'm pretty sure it must be all those brain cells I lost in the '60's but I don't get landscapes. They seem abstract to me, empty of emotion, at art form centered on perfection, absent any imprint of the heart & soul of the photographer. I have a terrible time voting on them in any challenge, so I usually skip them. I have a hunch that landscape photogs are not kind to non-landscapes when voting & probably through the efforts of landscape photogs the rules at DPC will always be biased in favor of landscape photography. The Expert Editing free study I hope for will never happen here because the possibility of being disqualified is central to the structure of this site & how would you write the Rules for a disqualification in Expert Editing?
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