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09/13/2007 04:16:39 PM · #26 |
Originally posted by Sam94720:
- I would find it unfair if you rated a picture of George W. Bush low because you don't agree with his policies (or high because you like them). |
Okay, I'll take a shot of Osama bin Laden for the next 'Portrait' challenge to see if your emotions in any way influence your vote. :)
There are certain subjects where the viewers emotions will transcend any technical or artistic aspects of the shot. If I was to take a photo of a crucifix, a mosque, an American flag, a North Korean flag... The subject matter is bound to stir emotion in 99% of people, as most people will have deeply held views on these subjects which are impossible to suppress.
Another example. The famous shot of the girl running away from the napalmed village in Vietnam. Has anyone ever been able to look at that shot and judge it on the technicals? No, because it's impossible to see past the subject. |
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09/13/2007 04:36:12 PM · #27 |
Hey, after ya'll get done with this debate, will someone please send me a PM telling me how I should vote/comment? Thanks.
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09/13/2007 04:43:19 PM · #28 |
Originally posted by fotomann_forever:
Hey, after ya'll get done with this debate, will someone please send me a PM telling me how I should vote/comment? Thanks. |
rate entries on a scale of 1 to 10. A score of 1 is a âbadâ photo, and a score of 10 is a âgoodâ photo.
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09/13/2007 04:50:37 PM · #29 |
| I expect a really good photo to get beyond my initially like/dislike screening, as indeed I do all art: this is what makes art art and not mere however pleasing decoration. |
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09/13/2007 04:53:00 PM · #30 |
Originally posted by Sam94720:
This picture
launched a bit of a discussion about personal opinion in voting. I left a long comment there, but I'd like to continue the discussion here in a more general sense. The question is: Should your personal opinion on the subject portrayed influence your voting? And if so, in what respect and how far?
An excerpt from what I wrote:
Originally posted by Sam94720:
This site is about photography. When rating a picture, one should focus on technical aspects like lighting, composition, focus, etc. but also take aspects like creativity, beauty, etc. into account. |
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For me, subject choice and portrayal of that subject is the most important aspect of the image. If the image stirs none of my emotions in a positive way (defining positive is a whole other topic), what else really matters? If it's a technically great turd, what merit does it have or what has the photographer accomplished?
Understanding the technicals of photography are just a small part of being a photographer. The embedded comment here seems like a cop-out to me.
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09/13/2007 04:55:55 PM · #31 |
Originally posted by Gordon:
Originally posted by fotomann_forever:
Hey, after ya'll get done with this debate, will someone please send me a PM telling me how I should vote/comment? Thanks. |
rate entries on a scale of 1 to 10. A score of 1 is a âbadâ photo, and a score of 10 is a âgoodâ photo. |
:-)
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09/13/2007 05:01:22 PM · #32 |
Originally posted by jmsetzler:
Understanding the technicals of photography are just a small part of being a photographer. The embedded comment here seems like a cop-out to me. |
I remember I think it was another Brooks Jensen podcast where he talked about learning the technical aspects. That many people spend years learning the technical aspects of photography, just to quit when they attain some level of mastery. For others, that's the starting point of their photography, not the end. Finding something to say is the hard part.
But finding something to say is easy. Communicate what you are passionate about. Shoot that. Then personal opinion on the subject would be impossible for the viewer to ignore.
The conflict only occurs when you are shooting things you aren't passionate about. Unfortunately a large part of this site is about encouraging that conflict. Which can be good to a point but can then actually be a negative aspect.
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09/13/2007 05:02:40 PM · #33 |
I'll be lazy and just quote a part of my own profile text here:
I try not to let any personal hang-ups influence my judgment of a photo, e.g. I'd do my best to judge the quality of your macro of a cockroach (something I hate with a passion), even if it IS making my stomach do flip flops.
However, there is a limit to that - some basic conventions need to be observed to be considered in good taste.... I won't put up with EVERYTHING!
I aim to be fair, but it is impossible to completely avoid personal preference, that's just the way it works. |
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09/13/2007 05:05:28 PM · #34 |
Originally posted by jhonan:
Okay, I'll take a shot of Osama bin Laden for the next 'Portrait' challenge to see if your emotions in any way influence your vote. :) |
If it's a good picture, I'll rate it high. And if you take a lousy picture of a Nobel Peace Price winner, I'll rate it low. (By the way: If you do take a picture of Osama for a challenge, you'd probably be concerned with other things than your score... ;) )
Originally posted by jhonan:
There are certain subjects where the viewers emotions will transcend any technical or artistic aspects of the shot. If I was to take a photo of a crucifix, a mosque, an American flag, a North Korean flag... The subject matter is bound to stir emotion in 99% of people, as most people will have deeply held views on these subjects which are impossible to suppress. |
Yes, of course. But they should be able to understand that this site is about photography and that we judge the photographic quality of the pictures (which includes creativity, emotions it provokes, etc.) and not the subject matter displayed.
Originally posted by jhonan:
Another example. The famous shot of the girl running away from the napalmed village in Vietnam. Has anyone ever been able to look at that shot and judge it on the technicals? No, because it's impossible to see past the subject. |
That picture has a high documentary and emotional value. It displays the horrors of the war in a very effective way. If it was posted on DPC, one might also want to consider the technical aspects. But what would certainly be inappropriate is to say "This image is in extremely poor taste. You promote and glorify violence. You are a bad person. Go away.".
Message edited by author 2007-09-13 17:05:46. |
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09/13/2007 05:08:49 PM · #35 |
Originally posted by Sam94720:
Yes, of course. But they should be able to understand that this site is about photography and that we judge the photographic quality of the pictures (which includes creativity, emotions it provokes, etc.) and not the subject matter displayed. |
This, as it often, does, boils down to often a fundamental disagreement about what photography actually is. There isn't a 'right' answer, but photography is different things to different people.
Abstracts, literalists, pictorialists, f64, reportage, surrealists, purists, holga, photoshop wizards.
It's all photography.
How you define 'bad' or 'good' photographic quality is framed within your own preconceived notions about what photography is. There isn't a right answer that should be applied in every case.
I'm currently scoring sub 4 on an image I'd consider technically perfect, with the ideal lighting and composition. Other's apparently disagree and that's their right.
Message edited by author 2007-09-13 17:11:23.
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09/13/2007 05:23:15 PM · #36 |
Originally posted by Gordon:
I'm currently scoring sub 4 on an image I'd consider technically perfect, with the ideal lighting and composition. Other's apparently disagree and that's their right. |
WOW..amazing, I guess things have changed... |
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09/13/2007 05:26:38 PM · #37 |
Originally posted by tfarrell23:
Originally posted by Gordon:
I'm currently scoring sub 4 on an image I'd consider technically perfect, with the ideal lighting and composition. Other's apparently disagree and that's their right. |
WOW..amazing, I guess things have changed... |
It depends a lot on what you mean by things like 'technically perfect'
In this case, technically everything in the image was exactly how I wanted it to be.
There's nothing I'd change, feel I need to fix or address. The camera did exactly what I wanted it to do, to express the picture the way I wanted it to be.
We throw around these terms in threads like this, as if there is some 'right' answer to any of these questions. There isn't. There are some accepted norms that should or could be used when appropriate. But there aren't any absolutes.
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09/13/2007 05:59:58 PM · #38 |
hello all...
new here --just checked out the power challeng..
nice picts--im kinda green --in a power way that is..surprized there
wasnt any windmills or other green entries..
check out -fieldlines.com- for green power--fun site..
hiker...
guess ile have to toss in a few bucks and become a paying member..
you might get a kick out of my pedgens[human powered generators]..
i do have a couple of dig. cams--plus my old stand by-pentax k1000
later............. |
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09/13/2007 11:34:38 PM · #39 |
Originally posted by Gordon:
Finding something to say is the hard part.
But finding something to say is easy. Communicate what you are passionate about. Shoot that. Then personal opinion on the subject would be impossible for the viewer to ignore.
The conflict only occurs when you are shooting things you aren't passionate about. Unfortunately a large part of this site is about encouraging that conflict. Which can be good to a point but can then actually be a negative aspect. |
Finding something to say is definitely the hard part as applied to the original context of this thread. Within the context of the challenge, it isn't easy.
The negative aspect that you describe is the root of the issue.
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