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DPChallenge Forums >> Current Challenge >> Soft Focus - Photoshop Legal?
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11/24/2003 10:49:41 PM · #26
Originally posted by jmsetzler:

Tim,

some very fine grit sandpaper should scuff the lens surface enough to get a good soft focus :)


Actually I think I will go buy a pair of pantyhose and a quart of motor oil :)

T
11/24/2003 10:58:22 PM · #27
Originally posted by jmsetzler:

Tim,

some very fine grit sandpaper should scuff the lens surface enough to get a good soft focus :)


No need to go that far, you can get the same effect with a cheap-o UV filter (this is a good use for those useless things) and a smear of vaseline. Vary the amount of vaseline to vary the blur. That will be DPC legal.
11/24/2003 10:58:59 PM · #28
Originally posted by timj351:

Originally posted by jmsetzler:

Tim,

some very fine grit sandpaper should scuff the lens surface enough to get a good soft focus :)


Actually I think I will go buy a pair of pantyhose and a quart of motor oil :)

T


That works too
11/25/2003 03:00:24 AM · #29
I wonder if David Hamilton would have been allowed to enter this contest? ;)

Personally I think I'll sit this one out. I really don't like soft focus pictures although I'm curious to see what you all come up with and whether those shots change my mind about soft focus.
11/25/2003 05:06:06 AM · #30
Originally posted by jmsetzler:

Tim,

some very fine grit sandpaper should scuff the lens surface enough to get a good soft focus :)


Yikes! How about 80 grit?

I prefer to just line up the shot, and the breath on the lens to fog it.
..or breath on a filter till it looks about right, then put that over it..
11/25/2003 08:32:16 AM · #31
Originally posted by jmsetzler:

Tim,

some very fine grit sandpaper should scuff the lens surface enough to get a good soft focus :)


Ok, I tried that and got a great shot. But how do I get back to normal focus?
11/25/2003 09:04:17 AM · #32
Of course, you can always just breath on the lens before shutter release.

ed
11/25/2003 09:13:02 AM · #33
Perhaps this is one of the better examples where site rules are prohibiting the practice and learning of good photography. Why is it better to learn to shoot through pantyhose, or a fogged lens, than to learn or practice to use a soft focus PS filtering technique?
11/25/2003 09:53:44 AM · #34
Originally posted by nshapiro:

Perhaps this is one of the better examples where site rules are prohibiting the practice and learning of good photography. Why is it better to learn to shoot through pantyhose, or a fogged lens, than to learn or practice to use a soft focus PS filtering technique?


Why isn't it?
11/25/2003 10:17:32 AM · #35
I'm with mshapiro on this. I see no benefit at all for taking an original photo using soft focus. It makes much more sense to take the original sharp and apply the focus in post processing. It allows much more flexibility for the photographer seing that it's much easier to apply soft focus to a sharp photo than to add a sharp focus to a soft focus photo.
11/25/2003 10:18:26 AM · #36
I figure understanding both approaches are equally valuable.
11/25/2003 10:20:59 AM · #37
I don't think it is illegal to use soft focus, because if it is then neat image and some of the other adjusting tools we use are illegal then. I am going to say, "Use the softening tools!" Have fun with it!
11/25/2003 10:22:04 AM · #38
Originally posted by Spazmo99:

Originally posted by nshapiro:

Perhaps this is one of the better examples where site rules are prohibiting the practice and learning of good photography. Why is it better to learn to shoot through pantyhose, or a fogged lens, than to learn or practice to use a soft focus PS filtering technique?


Why isn't it?


Simple. We are digital photographers and should be striving to learn digital technique rather than film technique.
11/25/2003 10:27:31 AM · #39
To avoid messing up a filter, or getting Vaseline over everything, try applying a little cream bathroom cleaner to a piece of clear acetate to very lightly scratch the surface (clean it off before using!) and hold it/blue tack it in front of the lens - it works fine. Somehow it seems better to use an on camera solution than PS. Each to his his own, I guess.

Message edited by author 2003-11-25 10:28:26.
11/25/2003 10:37:50 AM · #40
I am still not clear on what the legal decision is reagrding the use of "soft focus" within the software.

PSP8 has along the top tool bar, two categories. One named "Effects" which is prohibited by the rules(except for a couple of exceptions), and "Adjustments" which contain options like Sharpen, Sharpen more, and Unsharp mask, which are allowed. Within the same box as sharpen, sharpen more and unsharp mask is also "soft focus". This is under "adjustments" and not "effects".

According to one possible reading of the rules, effects are prohibited (mostly), while adjustments are not (since in PSP8 sharpen is defined as an adjustment). Therefore, soft focus, within PSP8 is allowed. If Photoshop Elements has different categories of tools and labels/defines soft focus as an "Effect", then a cunundrum is certainly present. [Legal in PSP and illegal in PS]. However I do not know that this is the case, as Photoshop Elements is not what I typically use and therefore are unfamiliar with their definations of various tools.

The "soft focus" tool in PSP8, under "Adjustments" is applied to the entire photo, just like sharpen, sharpen more and unsharp mask. It is defined as an adjustment, just like sharpen, sharpen more and unsharp mask. It is contained within the same "box" as sharpen, sharpen more and unsharp mask. Sharpen, sharpen more and unsharp mask are legal, therefore, PSP8's version of soft focus is legal.

As always, if I am wrong, just say it.
11/25/2003 10:56:26 AM · #41
The rules really weren't written to consider the actual menu options that filters are classed under in various tools - so trying to use the choices in photoshop or PSP or any other tool as a guide is unfortunately not really relevant. The current restrictions are mostly arbitary, based on what could be easily identified or not as 'contributing to digital art'

As I've gone on about at length before, trying to dictate end results by limiting tools is like assuming a hammer could only be used as a murder weapon or a paintbrush is only capable of vandalism.

Filters don't make digital art, people do.
11/25/2003 11:15:15 AM · #42
Originally posted by jmsetzler:

Originally posted by Spazmo99:

Originally posted by nshapiro:

Perhaps this is one of the better examples where site rules are prohibiting the practice and learning of good photography. Why is it better to learn to shoot through pantyhose, or a fogged lens, than to learn or practice to use a soft focus PS filtering technique?


Why isn't it?


Simple. We are digital photographers and should be striving to learn digital technique rather than film technique.


I consider myself a photographer, I record images with light. I don't consider myself restricted to specifically being a digital photographer. I still use film and have been known to coat stuff with light sensitive emulsion so I could shoot on that (glass plates, metal plates, watercolor paper, etc). I don't really care how or in what light sensitive media an image is recorded or manipulated, only that the end product fulfills my vision. Within the rules of DPC, it may well be that a film technique may provide a better means of producing that image.

Shouldn't we photographers (digital or otherwise) strive to learn how to create effective images, whatever the technique?
11/25/2003 11:29:14 AM · #43
Originally posted by Spazmo99:


Shouldn't we photographers (digital or otherwise) strive to learn how to create effective images, whatever the technique?


You'd think - but the current rules would have you believe otherwise...
11/25/2003 11:35:10 AM · #44
The original question in this thread and the question that I tried to answer was; "Is soft focus legal via software"?

I believe it is, when it is applied to the entire image, like sharpen or usm.

Message edited by author 2003-11-25 11:36:45.
11/25/2003 11:48:49 AM · #45
Originally posted by Flash:

The original question in this thread and the question that I tried to answer was; "Is soft focus legal via software"?

I believe it is, when it is applied to the entire image, like sharpen or usm.


I agree with you! I think it is legal if applied to the whole image.
11/25/2003 11:53:50 AM · #46
Originally posted by Spazmo99:


Shouldn't we photographers (digital or otherwise) strive to learn how to create effective images, whatever the technique?


Yes. We also should not limit ourselves by disallowing the full capabilities of software.
11/25/2003 11:56:59 AM · #47
Originally posted by jmsetzler:

Originally posted by Spazmo99:


Shouldn't we photographers (digital or otherwise) strive to learn how to create effective images, whatever the technique?


Yes. We also should not limit ourselves by disallowing the full capabilities of software.


The DPC rules do that........
11/25/2003 12:02:43 PM · #48
Sounds like it's time to start having a weekly, PS legal challenge maybe. I don't like the thought of full edit being available for all challenges. IMO it dilutes the purpose of the site. Makes it less about photography skill and more about PS skill. I know plenty of PS, its photography I want to learn. If you can't get a good enough blur with PS then do it oldschool and rub vaseline on the lens until you get what you want :P
11/25/2003 12:23:02 PM · #49
Ugh :(

It always makes this circle.
11/25/2003 12:51:28 PM · #50
there are legal ways to acheive the effect with software - and illegal ways of doing it with software.

you are not allowed to duplicate a layer - blur it , and change the opacity of the layer.

i am not going to coat any part of my camera with petroleum based products...or blue tack - or anything else i will regret later when my equipment is covered in sticky dust and hair

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