| Author | Thread |
|
|
02/22/2007 11:51:44 AM · #51 |
My only comment about the thread is that I doubt a single person who has complained that prison is "too easy" has seen the inside of a prison outside of CSI: Miami. I haven't either, but I doubt I'd last a week in those conditions. Screw the cable. The real punishment comes from the psychological impact of having zero freedom, spending the majority of your day in a 8x8 cell (or tent in this case), and living under the constant threat of violence from fellow inmates or other prison personnel.
The US's view on prison is far too punative instead of reabilitative. We have more prisoners per capita than any other first world country. The United States has 5 percent of the world's population and 25 percent of the world's incarcerated population. (source: Wikipedia) Yet we are still among the worst crime rates.
My personal view is that we are down the wrong path and that going even further down the path is not the solution.
|
|
|
|
02/22/2007 11:54:22 AM · #52 |
Originally posted by DrAchoo:
My only comment about the thread is that I doubt a single person who has complained that prison is "too easy" has seen the inside of a prison outside of CSI: Miami. I haven't either, but I doubt I'd last a week in those conditions. Screw the cable. The real punishment comes from the psychological impact of having zero freedom, spending the majority of your day in a 8x8 cell (or tent in this case), and living under the constant threat of violence from fellow inmates or other prison personnel.
The US's view on prison is far too punative instead of reabilitative. We have more prisoners per capita than any other first world country. The United States has 5 percent of the world's population and 25 percent of the world's incarcerated population. (source: Wikipedia) Yet we are still among the worst crime rates.
My personal view is that we are down the wrong path and that going even further down the path is not the solution. |
I agree: the political problem is that progressive prison reform is too easily cast politically as being "soft on crime". The vehemence of the reactions here are an indication of the uphill battle facing prison reformists.
|
|
|
|
02/22/2007 12:00:38 PM · #53 |
My best bro is a detective for the Maricopa County Sheriff's Office his boss is Sheriff Joe Arpaio. I have meet the man on a few occasions at his charity golf tournament where I play with my friend.
Sheriff Arpaio is a little guy and it's funny cuz he talks so tough! Most of what he does is all about publicity but I agree with his results. As far as it being 128 degrees that is a little far fetched. Last year I think the hottest it got here was 117 and in the tents it will be that hot but not hotter as they have big water spray fans that help cool the tents down.
If you listen to interviews from inmates they don't want to go back so you may not agree with his methods but the results speak for them selves.
P.S. I love the pink handcuffs and the stripes he makes the inmates ware. If you see them on the street there is no doubt to who they are. |
|
|
|
02/22/2007 12:01:50 PM · #54 |
Originally posted by eyewave:
Noone can ever give up HUMAN RIGHTS. What you probably mean is CIVIL RIGHTS, and that's okay for me.
I think it's NOT okay to let them not keep their bodies in shape, not okay to keep them from access to information sources other than the weather channel and Newt Gingrich lectures, not okay to let them live in tents at 128 degrees (the soldiers in IRAQ are there voluntarily).
I also don't think it is okay a Nazi-Sheriff can decide all these things. |
The prisoners are there because they VOLUNTARILY did the crime. |
|
|
|
02/22/2007 12:17:13 PM · #55 |
my comment about the Harford Hilton came from the inmates themselves. They even have tv's in their cells. the only thing they bitch about is not being able to make direct phone calls, they have to call collect.
Originally posted by DrAchoo:
My only comment about the thread is that I doubt a single person who has complained that prison is "too easy" has seen the inside of a prison outside of CSI: Miami. I haven't either, but I doubt I'd last a week in those conditions. Screw the cable. The real punishment comes from the psychological impact of having zero freedom, spending the majority of your day in a 8x8 cell (or tent in this case), and living under the constant threat of violence from fellow inmates or other prison personnel.
The US's view on prison is far too punative instead of reabilitative. We have more prisoners per capita than any other first world country. The United States has 5 percent of the world's population and 25 percent of the world's incarcerated population. (source: Wikipedia) Yet we are still among the worst crime rates.
My personal view is that we are down the wrong path and that going even further down the path is not the solution. |
|
|
|
|
02/22/2007 12:27:31 PM · #56 |
Originally posted by thegrandwazoo:
If you listen to interviews from inmates they don't want to go back so you may not agree with his methods but the results speak for them selves. |
Shooting the inmates would be even more effective and cheaper. Why don't we do that? After all, US soldiers are being shot in Iraq all the time, and they didn't commit a crime.
|
|
|
|
02/22/2007 12:36:15 PM · #57 |
Originally posted by Matthew:
Originally posted by thegrandwazoo:
If you listen to interviews from inmates they don't want to go back so you may not agree with his methods but the results speak for them selves. |
Shooting the inmates would be even more effective and cheaper. Why don't we do that? After all, US soldiers are being shot in Iraq all the time, and they didn't commit a crime. |
Well I don't know if murder is the right thing to do to a person busted for pot. :-P
Just so you know where I stand. I believe that all inmates incarcerated for consensual crimes should be let go and that the prisons should be for criminals involved with crime that has a victim.
I also don't like our prison system as it is. Building prisons is one of the largest growth industries in the US and more and more are private prisons contracted by the government. The fact that profit takes precedence over rehabilitation in my mind is very wrong. As well most people incarcerated are minorities which shows me that prejudice is a major factor. That pisses me off more than anything.
Tent city that we are talking about is a Jail not a prison and is county run. We in the US IMO definitely need some prison reform and a changes in the law. But I don't believe we can abolish prisons all together either. |
|
|
|
02/22/2007 12:48:14 PM · #58 |
Originally posted by thegrandwazoo:
Tent city that we are talking about is a Jail not a prison and is county run. |
What is the difference - and why? |
|
|
|
02/22/2007 12:52:35 PM · #59 |
| The most notable difference is that the county generally manages jails and prisons are generally managed by the state. In addition, jail inmates may be awaiting sentencing, and prison inmates have already been convicted and sentenced, usually for a felony |
|
|
|
02/22/2007 12:53:32 PM · #60 |
Originally posted by thegrandwazoo:
Originally posted by Matthew:
Shooting the inmates would be even more effective and cheaper. Why don't we do that? After all, US soldiers are being shot in Iraq all the time, and they didn't commit a crime. |
Well I don't know if murder is the right thing to do to a person busted for pot. :-P |
heh - of course you are right, but the logical extreme of the "crims have no rights" argument is exactly that. Imprisonment results in the curtailment of human rights: the only question is the degree to which they should be curtailed.
If you say that (as a criminal) a pot smoker has voluntarily given up his human rights, then be prepared to explain why he still has a right to life, but not a right to other basic welfare resources.
|
|
|
|
02/22/2007 12:55:45 PM · #61 |
Originally posted by timfythetoo:
Originally posted by eyewave:
(the soldiers in IRAQ are there voluntarily). |
Our soldiers made the choice to enlist and were sent to Iraq. These prisoners made the choice to do the crime and were sent to prison. Sounds voluntary to me. |
Exactly...
|
|
|
|
02/22/2007 12:56:43 PM · #62 |
Originally posted by SaraR:
Originally posted by thegrandwazoo:
Tent city that we are talking about is a Jail not a prison and is county run. |
What is the difference - and why? |
From the CDC's web site
"What is the difference between jail and prison?
According to a definition used by the U.S. Bureau of Justice Statistics in its report, Prison and Jail Inmates at Midyear, jails are locally-operated correctional facilities that confine persons before or after adjudication. Inmates sentenced to jail usually have a sentence of 1 year or less. (This can vary by state.) Jails also incarcerate persons in a variety of other categories, such as persons being held pending arraignment, trial, conviction, or sentencing; those who have been returned to custody following violation of the terms of their release on probation or parole; and persons being transferred to the custody of other criminal justice/correctional authorities.
Prisons are operated by either a state or the federal government, and they confine only those individuals who have been sentenced to 1 year or more of incarceration. Generally, persons sentenced to prison have been convicted of a felony offense."
|
|
|
|
02/22/2007 12:57:27 PM · #63 |
Originally posted by Matthew:
Originally posted by thegrandwazoo:
Originally posted by Matthew:
Shooting the inmates would be even more effective and cheaper. Why don't we do that? After all, US soldiers are being shot in Iraq all the time, and they didn't commit a crime. |
Well I don't know if murder is the right thing to do to a person busted for pot. :-P |
heh - of course you are right, but the logical extreme of the "crims have no rights" argument is exactly that. Imprisonment results in the curtailment of human rights: the only question is the degree to which they should be curtailed.
If you say that (as a criminal) a pot smoker has voluntarily given up his human rights, then be prepared to explain why he still has a right to life, but not a right to other basic welfare resources. |
But I don't believe that a pot smoker is a criminal. |
|
|
|
02/22/2007 01:03:44 PM · #64 |
Oh yeah and I never said incarcerated people should have to give up their human rights.
ETA: That must have been TheSaj LMAO j/k :-P
Message edited by author 2007-02-22 13:08:42. |
|
|
|
02/22/2007 01:40:44 PM · #65 |
I think that if you get put in prison for committing a crime, you should have to pay. Literally, like dollar bills. If you want cable TV, they should charge you for how much it costs for you to watch TV (plus the cost of teh TV). If you want an education, you should have to pay for it. Hell, I should have went to prison to get my 4 yr college education instead of pulling out loans.
As for the heat, in 117F weather, in the shade with plenty of water; that isn't hot. Especially since it isn't humid.
If you break the law, you should be punished. PUNISHED dammit. When I lived at home, if I broke the rules, I got PUNISHED. That thing where you can't watch TV or use the phone, etc. Why should people who break the law be any different? Let them sit there and think about what they've done.
|
|
|
|
02/22/2007 01:46:37 PM · #66 |
we could do with the guy down here with the wallies running the place things are going from bad to worse
|
|
|
|
02/22/2007 01:57:51 PM · #67 |
Just for info:
I know it's not always 100% correct, but it has some sources:
Joe in wikipedia
His own website
A site against him
*though, I didn't fine any sources listed in his claims*
|
|
|
|
02/22/2007 02:10:47 PM · #68 |
Hey, I have an idea!! Let's take all of those sweet criminals out there and excuse any crime they decide to commit, put them in a fluffy bunny happy tutu place with all those people who looooove criminals and think they should get full civil rights, 3 hots, and a cot, then look them up again in a year month week and see if they still feel the same way. :)
Bottom line, WHEN A PERSON COMMITS A CRIME THEY GIVE UP THEIR RIGHTS. All of them. Criminals can't vote. Why? Because they gave up their rights when they committed the crime. They knew what they were doing. They always know. Don't let them fool you. If EVERY jail, prison, etc were like tent city, the crime rate would drop like crazy. Men do not like to be treated like infantile girls. Women do not like to be treated like men (hard labor, shaved heads, etc...).
To add one: I believe in no early out for good behavior too :)
<<<<>>>>> :) |
|
|
|
02/22/2007 02:11:30 PM · #69 |
l
Message edited by author 2007-02-22 14:11:56. |
|
|
|
02/22/2007 02:12:42 PM · #70 |
After the Graham Burton balls up here like they paroled this murderer, he breached his parole,got armed up like Rambo and went on a shoting spree killing one man and injuring others, he was eventually shot by the armed offenders unit and put back in prison minus a leg that got shot off
|
|
|
|
02/22/2007 02:12:52 PM · #71 |
Originally posted by bigalpha:
If you break the law, you should be punished. PUNISHED dammit. When I lived at home, if I broke the rules, I got PUNISHED. That thing where you can't watch TV or use the phone, etc. Why should people who break the law be any different? Let them sit there and think about what they've done. |
Amen to that! |
|
|
|
02/22/2007 02:18:33 PM · #72 |
Recidivism isn't a product of criminals wanting, or not fearing, a return to a comfortable prison. It's a function of a society which has a "penal" philosophy rather than a "rehabilitative" philosophy.
Ex-cons frequently find themselves out in the world with nothing but a parole officer for support and supervision. Society penalizes them for their crimes, gathers them together so that they become institutionalized and further integrated into the criminal world, and then expects them to "function" when realeased.
The nature of the prison is a symptom of the society. Generally speaking, incarceration has never been an effective deterrent.
The answer is in early educational intervention, vibrant social programs, and an end to poverty, racism and sexism.
Oops, I think my Socialism is showing. |
|
|
|
02/22/2007 02:25:16 PM · #73 |
Originally posted by Fromac:
Recidivism isn't a product of criminals wanting, or not fearing, a return to a comfortable prison. It's a function of a society which has a "penal" philosophy rather than a "rehabilitative" philosophy.
Ex-cons frequently find themselves out in the world with nothing but a parole officer for support and supervision. Society penalizes them for their crimes, gathers them together so that they become institutionalized and further integrated into the criminal world, and then expects them to "function" when realeased.
The nature of the prison is a symptom of the society. Generally speaking, incarceration has never been an effective deterrent.
The answer is in early educational intervention, vibrant social programs, and an end to poverty, racism and sexism.
Oops, I think my Socialism is showing. |
All theory, most of which is unproven. Why do Socialist countries have prisons? |
|
|
|
02/22/2007 02:39:04 PM · #74 |
Originally posted by Fromac:
The answer is in early educational intervention, vibrant social programs, and an end to poverty, racism and sexism.
|
*bursts out laughing* *laughs a little more*
*picks up milk glass that got knocked over in my laughing*
Are you kidding me? None of that will make a damned lick of good. You have to end bigger things; like corrupt government, religion [not looking for a war here], money. Those are the real culprits.
Anyhow, if someone commits a crime, what would you propose doing to them? How can we punish someone for a crime without putting them in jail? That's the only place where you can really control their lives. You can't make someone not watch TV or not use the computer if they are not in prison.
|
|
|
|
02/22/2007 02:40:05 PM · #75 |
Originally posted by nards656:
Originally posted by Fromac:
Recidivism isn't a product of criminals wanting, or not fearing, a return to a comfortable prison. It's a function of a society which has a "penal" philosophy rather than a "rehabilitative" philosophy.
Ex-cons frequently find themselves out in the world with nothing but a parole officer for support and supervision. Society penalizes them for their crimes, gathers them together so that they become institutionalized and further integrated into the criminal world, and then expects them to "function" when realeased.
The nature of the prison is a symptom of the society. Generally speaking, incarceration has never been an effective deterrent.
The answer is in early educational intervention, vibrant social programs, and an end to poverty, racism and sexism.
Oops, I think my Socialism is showing. |
All theory, most of which is unproven. Why do Socialist countries have prisons? |
The theory of these ideas is unproven because hegemony works by discouraging change.
The practice of the current system has been proved to not work. And still we hesitate to embrace anything different because it is only an unproven theory. It seems as if we'd rather stick to a system that doesn't work, than try a system which might.
So-called Socialist (big or little "s") countries have prisons because socialism has never really been tried on a large scale. It is often accompanied by totalitarianism...or muddied by rampant commercialism...or espoused by a party temporarily as an election platform and not sufficiently instituted to have any lasting effect.
Just a few of the countless reasons "socialist" countries have prisons. |
|
Home -
Challenges -
Community -
League -
Photos -
Cameras -
Lenses -
Learn -
Help -
Terms of Use -
Privacy -
Top ^
DPChallenge, and website content and design, Copyright © 2001-2025 Challenging Technologies, LLC.
All digital photo copyrights belong to the photographers and may not be used without permission.
Current Server Time: 07/30/2025 06:02:53 AM EDT.
