DPC Mentorship - Post Processing

Canon EF 24-70mm f/2.8L USM

07/10/2005 10:26:26 PM · #26

I'm working on my "family" entry now (and wish I already knew more Photoshop!) so I won't talk long, but ...

David, this is so generous of you to offer to help us. Many many thanks! Also, Steve, I've had two of your wonderful comments and they were really helpful. I've looked at both of your portfolios and love your work. I'm very excited.

From the list that you gave, I'm interested in every topic, particularly:

Originally posted by aboutimage:

- Color cast & matching
- Hue shifting & colorization
- Curves, shadows & highlights
- Advanced selection techniques
- Dodging, burning and blurring
- Cloning, healing & patching
- Replacing colors
- Opacity & blend modes
- Layer styles
- Masks & channels
- Clipping masks

Any direction you choose will be fine by me. Selection technique is probably most interesting for me for what I do outside dpchallenge; I'm frustrated by trying to select fuzzy bits (especially things like wind-blown hair!)

Again, thanks & I look forward to this!

07/10/2005 10:41:45 PM · #27

Originally posted by aboutimage:

First things first ...

So let's start off with 2 questions:
(1) What software are you using for post-processing?
(2) What is your perceived skill level (none, basic, intermediate, advanced)?
(3) What would you most like to learn about?

1-Photoshop 7 and Ulead's PhotoImpact 8 though I don't use if very often now.

2-Intermediate/Advanced looking to move up to guru status. :)

3-The fundamentals of all primary PS capabilities related to photography and the ability to combine them in creative way to make photographs the best that they can be.

Message edited by author 2005-07-10 22:42:12.

Panasonic Lumix G 14mm F2.5 ASPH

07/10/2005 10:46:45 PM · #28

Originally posted by aboutimage:

1) What software are you using for post-processing?
(2) What is your perceived skill level (none, basic, intermediate, advanced)? (3) What would you most like to learn about?

1) Photoshop 6
2) basic
3) how to make my pictures look better? is that too vague. i'm opening to learning just about anything right now as my skills are pretty basic right now.

Thanks!

Olyuzi

Panasonic Lumix DMC-GX7

07/10/2005 10:51:17 PM · #29

Here's a couple of pix that may be considered challenging to edit. Take your pic of you like them for an example.

07/10/2005 11:18:03 PM · #30

edited to remove pic that i'm deleting from my portfolio.

Message edited by author 2005-07-10 23:43:52.

07/10/2005 11:21:10 PM · #31

------------------------------------------------------------
LESSON 1 - ADJUSTMENT LAYERS - BASIC
------------------------------------------------------------

LESSON MOVED HERE

I'll also eventually add images of PS windows so I don't have to describe what they look like...

Message edited by author 2005-07-11 00:57:23.

fstopopen

Canon EOS-350D Rebel XT

Canon EF 50mm f/1.8 II

07/11/2005 12:31:04 AM · #32

Just joined. Thanks for letting me. I am glad there was still room. Now on to business.

1.I have ps-cs2
2. intermediate
3. Hmmm... what do I want to learn? Well, I have a tough time really getting my USM right. I have difficulties with color, and after reading this last post, basic workflow issues.

I Loved this post!!! You read about adjustment layers, but it is one of those things that I thought only should be used by SOME people. I think I honestly thought that you had to less than confident in your work to use them.

I will never, ever edit without them. I remember vaguely reading about about an adjustment layer you can use for dodging and burning, where you paint white and it is dodged, and paint black and it is burned. anyone know about this? Also, I never knew what the "yin/yang" button was there for. My life has changed.

As far as levels go, I usually use "brightness/contrast". I think levels is a much better way to go. I have tried to use curves, and I do for black and whites, but I can never get the results I want from them in color. I will be using levels from now on.

In short, thank you. I am very happy about what you have done here.

here are my results:
Unedited:

and with levels and a hue/saturation channel

Thanks again for taking the time.

drake

Panasonic Lumix G 14mm F2.5 ASPH

07/11/2005 01:07:16 AM · #33

Great job, drake!

From a critical perspective, I think you may have overdone the color saturation a bit, but to be honest, it's pretty normal. Once you get over the initial shock of how easy it is to non-destructively edit your photos, you'll probably get more conservative with your color boosts.

I'll have to look up your dodging/burning adjustment layer question. Off the top of my head, I don't think you can do it, but there are soooo many things you can do in PS... I could well have missed it.

On that note, though, I'll give you an tip from an upcoming lesson: How to do non-destructive edits using destructive editing tools. Sounds wierd but it's SUPER easy. Here's how:

-Open the photo you want to edit (the one you just did is fine).
-Click the Background layer and do CTRL+J to duplicate the layer. Now single-click the name "Copy of Background" and rename it to "burn" or something like that.
-Do your burns on the "burn" layer.
-Select the burn layer and do another CTRL+J to duplicate it. Rename it to "dodge" and do all your dodging.
-Now you can activate/deactivate either of the dodge/burn layers to see what the image looked like without those edits.
-You can still do the adjustment layers, as well. Just make sure the adjustment layers show up ABOVE the layers you want to affect. If they show up in the wrong place, drag them to the top of the layer list.

The attached photos are an example of what you can using this technique (just did it today):

........Before................After........

Message edited by author 2005-07-11 01:47:57.

Olyuzi

Panasonic Lumix DMC-GX7

07/11/2005 07:09:23 AM · #34

Great tutorial on adjustment layers, David. I didn't realize that when using them they are non-destructive and are not editing the source image. Do adjustment layers increase greatly the file size of the image? Should I increase my PS RAM usage when using this method? Also, I couldn't find how to create a photo filter adjustment layer. Does ps 6.0 not support this function?

07/11/2005 09:09:31 AM · #35

Did I go too green?

07/11/2005 09:21:18 AM · #36

Originally posted by Olyuzi:

-I don't think adjustment layers add a significant amount of file size, although everything in PS adds a little something.
-I have my PS set for 75% RAM usage (with 1.5GB RAM). It's pretty much overkill unless you are working with shots you plan on printing (at 300dpi)
-I think Photofilter is new to CS. Does 6 have "solid color"? If so, add a solid color layer, take an orange for "warming", blue for "cooling", etc., then drop the opacity of the layer down to 5-25% or so.

07/11/2005 09:28:11 AM · #37

Originally posted by mikala:

Did I go too green?

I'd say "yes", a little too green. However, your experiment will reveal something very important about Hue/Saturation. Go back into the file (assuming you saved it) and double-click your Hue/Sat adjustment layer. Change the top "drop-down" selection box from RGB to Green, and then run the "saturation" value ALL THE WAY to 100%.

Notice where the greens are in your picture? Sometimes they show up in unexpected or unwanted places. I sometimes do that just to get a feel of "where" the colors are that I'm planning on saturating or adjusting.

In your picture, there are several spots on the mountain that show up bright green in the "after" photo, and they're "telling on you". The untrained eye knows "something" is wrong here, it just can't figure it out. The trained eye (lots on DPC) will immediately search out the odd green spots and say "hey, that's not possible".

Try toning down your saturation a little bit. At least to where the green spots on the mountain blend in a little better. If you can't get them to go away, I'll teach you how to selectively modify them, soon.

In any case, most people will probably think the photo is un-naturally green. One thing you can try is toning your greens down a bit and then experimenting with either reds or yellows (yellow, probably, in your pic) and see if an adjustment of either of those colors does justice to your photo.

My own subjective interpretation of what looks good:

Levels data: Input: 64, 1.04, 255
Hue/Sat: Master: -14, -6, 0; Red: 0, +25, 0; Yellow: -5, +12, 0

Message edited by author 2005-07-11 09:50:27.

07/11/2005 09:48:07 AM · #38

--

Message edited by author 2005-07-11 09:50:17.

07/11/2005 10:57:42 AM · #39

Originally posted by aboutimage:

I'd say "yes", a little too green.

Thanks so much for your quick reply and feedback...this is fun!

i did those changes last night and hurriedly posted them this AM. when i looked at my 'after' image just now, i agree, WAY too green. i really like your adjustments. sadly, i'm at work and can't play with it any more and can't try your warming/cooling tips.

i like your idea on saturating up to 100%, i actually found myself doing this when playing last night. not only to show me where the color is, but also to pick the hue i want; i was saturating to 100%, then adjusting hue, then going back and adjusting saturation to suit my taste...do you think it's an okay to pick hue or too misleading?

07/11/2005 11:05:23 AM · #40

David,

I have some questions.

1) After doing adjustment layers do we have to 'flatten' the image before saving?

2) How do you crop? (i know how i do it, just wondering if everyone did it the same).

3) Just learned about "save for web". at some point, could you go over this a tad?

hopefully not asking to many Q's,
michelle

07/11/2005 11:06:00 AM · #41

Originally posted by mikala:

do you think it's an okay to pick hue or too misleading?

I think it's a fine way to do things. I was going to suggest it as a method of finding the right hue, but you stole my thunder ;-)

Message edited by author 2005-07-11 11:06:13.

07/11/2005 11:18:13 AM · #42

Originally posted by mikala:

1) After doing adjustment layers do we have to 'flatten' the image before saving?
2) How do you crop? (i know how i do it, just wondering if everyone did it the same).
3) Just learned about "save for web". at some point, could you go over this a tad?

1. No. In fact, I really recommend you never do it unless you have a specific reason to. Flatten Image destroys all the extra layers, and with them, the ability to re-modify your changes. Once you flatten and save, your image becomes "as-is". Instead, save the PS file and a separate JPEG file (that's your flattened image).
2. Whole separate topic, and not necessarily a PS skill-set. We'll get into it later.
3. I prefer "save as". Save for Web has a lot of great options, but I typically don't want to "optimize" my published photos for anything but overall file size. I certainly don't want "web safe" colors.

KevinRiggs

Canon EOS-1Ds

07/11/2005 02:38:55 PM · #43

Originally posted by aboutimage:

(1) What software are you using for post-processing?
(2) What is your perceived skill level (none, basic, intermediate, advanced)?
(3) What would you most like to learn about?

Hey there, everyone.

1 - Photoshop CS
2 - Probably intermediate
3 - Different methods for editing; I have my workflow but I'd like to see other methods. I need a lot of practice with curves.

Kev

Bebe

Canon EF 24-70mm f/2.8L USM

07/11/2005 07:30:47 PM · #44

Here's my homework! I used Olyuzi's picture of fruit to play with:

Original: ]

My effort:

Too much? too little? This is what I did:

1) Adjusted the white balance by using the threshold (as taught in one of the dpchallenge "How to" tutorials)
2) Adjusted the levels in an adjustment layer
3) Adjusted the saturation of each color in adjustment layers
4) (Destructively) cloned the bit at the top left to get rid of the other background.
4) USM

My pic is still quite a bit more blurry than the original - is this because I was starting with a small file? What could I have improved on?

JayWalk

Canon EOS-6D

Canon EF 17-40mm f/4.0L USM

07/11/2005 07:52:05 PM · #45

Originally posted by Bebe:

Here's my homework! I used Olyuzi's picture of fruit to play with:

Original: ]

My effort:

Too much? too little? This is what I did:

1) Adjusted the white balance by using the threshold (as taught in one of the dpchallenge "How to" tutorials)
2) Adjusted the levels in an adjustment layer
3) Adjusted the saturation of each color in adjustment layers
4) (Destructively) cloned the bit at the top left to get rid of the other background.
4) USM

My pic is still quite a bit more blurry than the original - is this because I was starting with a small file? What could I have improved on?

I think this may be a very good image for us to work on. Here is my attempt:

Ideally I would have liked to isolate each of the veggies on a seperate layer and play with them individually, but just didn't have the time. I also tried to remove the hard flash light.

1) Copied Layer
2) Adjusted levels, color balance and contrast
3) Adjusted Hue's and Saturation
4) Cloned out the hard flash areas on the plate, eggplant and pepper
5) Added a bit of yellow tone to the onion using spray brush
5) Unsharp mask
6) Added border

Message edited by author 2005-07-11 20:22:51.

07/11/2005 08:30:56 PM · #46

First off... I gotta say there is a whole lotta good stuff going on in this mentorship group. I'm amazed at all the great ideas shared so far.

I volunteered do a another lesson on "advanced selections". Look for that coming soon to a theater near you. LOL.

What are your thoughts about "selections"? What would you like to know?

I am putting together the outline for that topic now. If there is anything specific or mysterious about selections you want included then PM me and I will cover it.

This lesson was chosen because it was mention early on in this thread.

Selecting things is fundamental to acting on them and I plan to take a comprehensive look at the subject in a sorta "everything you always wanted to know about selections but were afraid to ask" approach. That way everything about selections can be gathered in one place and we can eventually make it into a DPC tutorial for everyone.

Canon EF 70-200mm f/4.0L USM

07/11/2005 08:38:57 PM · #47

Thinking about future lessons brings to mind aboutimage's list of possible topics.

What do you think should be added to his list? What order do you think the topics should be covered?

The list:
- Color cast & matching
- Hue shifting & colorization
- Curves, shadows & highlights
- Adjustment layers
- Advanced selection techniques
- Dodging, burning and blurring
- Cloning, healing & patching
- Replacing colors
- Layers & layer sets
- Opacity & blend modes
- Layer styles
- Masks & channels
- Sharpening & blurring
- Text & vector shapes
- Clipping masks

Aboutimage started with the "adjustment layers" lesson.

As a group we need to formalize this list of topics and then add, subtract or break these down into smaller manageable pieces if necessary. We will continously fine tune the list. We can make changes as we see fit. Nothing is etched in stone at this point.

Then we need to prioritize the topics so that we get to the ones most desired as soon as possible. We can always reprioritize as needed later.

Please add your input to this. Make your voice heard. :) The topic possibilities are almost limitless.

janruss

Canon EOS-1D Mark IIn

07/11/2005 08:54:03 PM · #48

How did you do #5 (add a little bit of yellow tone to the onion using spray brush)?

Originally posted by JayWalk:

Originally posted by Bebe:
Here's my homework! I used Olyuzi's picture of fruit to play with:

Original: ]

My effort:

Too much? too little? This is what I did:

1) Adjusted the white balance by using the threshold (as taught in one of the dpchallenge "How to" tutorials)
2) Adjusted the levels in an adjustment layer
3) Adjusted the saturation of each color in adjustment layers
4) (Destructively) cloned the bit at the top left to get rid of the other background.
4) USM

My pic is still quite a bit more blurry than the original - is this because I was starting with a small file? What could I have improved on?

I think this may be a very good image for us to work on. Here is my attempt:

Ideally I would have liked to isolate each of the veggies on a seperate layer and play with them individually, but just didn't have the time. I also tried to remove the hard flash light.

1) Copied Layer
2) Adjusted levels, color balance and contrast
3) Adjusted Hue's and Saturation
4) Cloned out the hard flash areas on the plate, eggplant and pepper
5) Added a bit of yellow tone to the onion using spray brush
5) Unsharp mask
6) Added border

amber

Canon EOS-300D Rebel

Canon EF-S 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6

07/11/2005 09:02:22 PM · #49

Originally posted by stdavidson:

Can you add gradients to that list?