DPC Mentorship - Post Processing

Canon EF 24-70mm f/2.8L USM

08/05/2005 07:09:35 PM · #1

Hi there! I'm just back from a week off. First off, many congrats to aboutimage for a beautiful first place shot under the tools challenge. It's a truly great image.

I'd love to continue with selection techniques, but I'm also up for changing over to something else. I'd really like to learn more about curves, for instance.

Thanks for the lessons!

aboutimage

Canon EOS-30D

Canon EF 70-200mm f/2.8L IS USM

07/29/2005 01:37:25 AM · #2

OK, I'm feeling kind of guilty here... I've been so busy with work and managing the rest of the mentor programs, I haven't really spent much time with this one!! I'm very sorry!!

stdavidson has done an incredible job with the selection technique, and I know he has even more coming.

My question to you is:

How are you feeling about selection? Are you ready to move on to other things or would you like to tackle more selection techniques (I think he's covered about 2/3 of the main ones). My personal feeling is we should move on to something else for a while to keep interest up. If so, what would you like to focus on? Any weak spots that need tweaking? Help me out with the direction you'd like to go, and I'll get something rolling.

07/27/2005 06:03:09 PM · #3

Off topic from selections, but a word about sharpening which is one of the great buggaboos of digital image post processing...

Remember I recomemended listening to Russell Brown's tips and tricks videos at...?

//www.russellbrown.com/tips_tech.html

One video of his about sharpening is found here...
//av.adobe.com/russellbrown/AdvancedSharpening.mov

His instruction and explaination about the technique is much better than I'd ever do so listen to it. He calls is a "secret of the photoshop gurus".

I've used it on all recent images and it does a great job.

As you may or may not know, you do NOT save final USM or focus with your post processed files. That is because focus is different for web images than it is for, say, a 16 X 20 print. Therefore you create separate files for each from the post processed file.

Anyway, the basis of the technique, as you will learn from Russell, is that you separate the bright and dark components into two separate layers and use the opacity adjustment for fine adjustments to each separately.

I find that the bright adjust is the one that needs most attention... I've found I set is down to to somewhere around 30% to reduce the "digital" look of sharpened images.

Try it... you might like it. :)

Panasonic Lumix G 14mm F2.5 ASPH

07/27/2005 04:23:48 PM · #4

Originally posted by Olyuzi:

I believe the above picture entered in the last sports challenge would have done better had I learned to apply noise reduction correctly. (Stupid me forgot to reset the ISO from the previous night so I shot this picture in bright broad daylight at ISO 400 ugh!) Check out those smooth uglies in the spray and water in the forground. Unsightly, and I honestly don't know how it got past me to get entered. I must not have been paying too close attention. I'm going to have to learn to apply noise reduction much smarter and your idea above is going to be my impetus.

Agreed... that image has a bad case of the "smoothies".

The battle, always, when applying any noise reduction to an image (No matter what type it is) is between removing the noise and losing fine detail. The trick is to find the proper balance between the two.

Of course, the best way to handle electronic noise is not to have it in the first place by taking properly exposed and well lighted subjects. :)

Message edited by author 2005-07-27 16:24:23.

Olyuzi

Panasonic Lumix DMC-GX7

07/26/2005 09:29:57 PM · #5

Olyuzi

Panasonic Lumix DMC-GX7

Panasonic Lumix G 14mm F2.5 ASPH

07/26/2005 09:13:42 PM · #6

Hey Steve, thanks very much for that bit of info on noise reduction programs. It's certainly going to help with the long exposure challenge since long exposures seem to "kick up" a lot of electronic noise, along with low light exposures. I've been using NoiseWare (community edition)by by ImageNomic and that program automatically builds a profile for each image without having to choose a large area in your image with which to build a noise profile. It also presents you with an easy to read chart so that you can see exactly where in the image that noise exists (luminance or color channels) and then gives you the options to taylor make your own settings (not unlike Neat Image, I'm sure).

However, I'm not totally happy with the results I get from NoiseWare so I may switch back to Neat Image. I'm just thinking that it may even be beneficial to make your own Neat Image noise profiles for each and every shoot. That could be really specific to the shooting conditions you photographing in as you could make a noise profile by taking a photo of a large blank area (such as a 18% gray card) in the same light you are shooting in and with the same metered settings for aperture, ISO and shutter speed you will use to take the picture with. Then when you get home you could base the profile you make on that photo with the gray card and use the settings for all other photographs you've shot with that specific light and camera settings. Of course, don't forget to save it!

Btw, steve, does the "ST" in your user name stand for saint? ;) You are very helpful, thanks.

Message edited by author 2005-07-26 21:19:22.

07/26/2005 07:03:47 PM · #7

A quick word about NeatImage (and perhaps other noise reduction software)

Noise reduction built into image editing software like PS7 or PS CS typically is not very good so an add-on purchased product like NeatImage is a good idea.

NeatImage applies noise reduction in one of two ways.

1-Make a selection on the individual image and have NeatImage analyze and calculate noise reduction specific for that image.

2-Apply noise reduction filters built special for your camera and it's settings.

I use Neatimage all the time because my Sony F-717 tends to have a lot of electronic noise. Despite what some people might suggest, the vast majority of time electronic noise is BAD! (I've noticed that Canon cameras have less noise than mine)

I found and downloaded noise reduction filters for my camera and find that I use the filters (Method #2) almost exclusively. The problem with letting NeatImage calculate proper noise reduction settings for an individual image is that you rarely have a clean space large enough in the original for NeatImage to properly calculate the noise reduction settings... that is how you get the "smoothies"

My recommendation... Get and use proper filters designed specifically for your camera when using noise reduction software. That seems to work best, at least with NeatImage.

Message edited by author 2005-07-26 19:06:16.

07/24/2005 02:18:06 AM · #8

I'm working on some images I took today, July 23, and will take on July 24. They are two very separate projects. However, for something for the group to look at is the tutorials of Russell Brown. He is very entertaining and his free tutorials are available at:

//www.russellbrown.com/tips_tech.html

Russell has a way of explaining things that I think you will all enjoy. Please review his tutorials and tell the group what you think. I plan to use some of them as I complete the selection lesson adding "advanced" topics. One of his topics is how you can use the dodge and burn tools to make a selection. That still blows me away.

Russel uses a Mac, which most of the really good image processing gurus do, but the only difference between his video tutorials and a windows machine is that the Mac uses the 'Option' key where the PC uses the 'alt' key.

You can learn a ton about post processing by listenng to his tutorials and trying them out yourself.

07/23/2005 01:57:37 AM · #9

OK... I have the option to continue working on the selection lesson, or answering questions... Since the former requires a lot of work I am opting to answer questions right now.

Any post processing issues?? :)

07/21/2005 08:33:51 PM · #10

The second official lesson using selection tools has been completed! It is the result of adding the first parts to the Advanced Techniques Section that covers Paste, Paste Into and Extract. You will want to read those before chalenging the assignment.

It is called:
=========================================================
Practice Assignment #2 â�� Using â��Filter>Extractâ�� to extract objects from their background
=========================================================

It is located at the end of the selection techniques lesson that is STILL under development at:
Post Processing Lesson - Selection Techniques

Try to complete the lesson on your own and share your result, questions and experiences with the group in the lesson thread.

Have fun!

Message edited by author 2005-07-21 20:35:22.

07/19/2005 07:58:29 PM · #11

Originally posted by Bebe:

Here's mine. I'm grateful that janruss went first - I'm not at all certain that I would have figured it out.

BTW, I changed the size of the sky afterwards, just to be slightly different.

Question: where are we supposed to post? This forum or the one that describes your techniques?

I figure we should post to the lesson thread since they are all related and keep this one from getting to cluttered up. :)

I'll put my comments on your image in the lesson thread. :)

Message edited by author 2005-07-19 19:59:22.

Bebe

Canon EF 24-70mm f/2.8L USM

07/19/2005 07:50:34 PM · #12

Here's mine. I'm grateful that janruss went first - I'm not at all certain that I would have figured it out.

BTW, I changed the size of the sky afterwards, just to be slightly different.

Question: where are we supposed to post? This forum or the one that describes your techniques?

07/19/2005 04:21:25 PM · #13

Finally, an official lesson using selection tools has been completed! :)

It is called:
=========================================================
Practice Assignment #1 â�� Using â��Edit>Paste Intoâ�� for Simple Sky Replacements
=========================================================

It is located at the end of the selection techniques lesson that is STILL under development at:
Post Processing Lesson - Selection Techniques

Try to complete the lesson on your own and share your result, questions and experiences with the group in the lesson thread.

Lets try to have this first selection techniques assignment completed by the end of the week.

Have fun!

07/18/2005 08:46:16 PM · #14

The first two main sections of a three part lesson on selection techniques and found here:

Post Processing Lesson - Selection Techniques

Summary of changes:
1-A second practice graphic was added.
2-The first section on marquee tool was revises.
3-The second major section, the "Select" menu was added.

Though the two practice lessons have not been added yet the two sample graphics are used extensively in the lesson text to provide examples of most of the concepts covered so you can gain hands-on experience wit the tools as you read and learn more about selection techniques.

I will be working on and adding the Advanced Selection Techniques" and proactice lessons to finalize this lesson.

My plan it to convert the lesson into an official DPC tutorial for everyone after you guys use and and help wme work out its weaknesses.

Enjoy!

Tamron SP AF 17-35mm f/2.8-4 Di LD Aspherical IF for Canon

07/16/2005 09:20:24 PM · #15

The first of three parts of the post processing selection techniques lesson is completed and found here:

Post Processing Lesson - Selection Techniques

This should give those of you who have not used marquee tools a good fundamental introduction to them. Many of the tricks used with marquee tools carry over into other areas of PS.

I will be working on and adding the "Selection" menu component next. I will update the lesson with that component when it is completed.

Have fun!

roadrunner

Canon EOS-20D

07/15/2005 11:58:06 PM · #16

O.K... i have returned... i have skimmed the forum, but as yet haven't absorbed anything, ( still in holiday mode) an hoping about image or stdavidson can explain what i need to know to get started....
and BTW stdavidson, you left a great comment on a photo of mine regarding post processing... thanks so much for that...

Canon EF 70-200mm f/2.8L IS USM

07/15/2005 11:29:07 PM · #17

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Message edited by author 2005-07-15 23:29:40.

aboutimage

Canon EOS-30D

07/14/2005 09:18:49 PM · #18

Originally posted by sacredspirit:

Absolutely! I spent many hours reading the book, but I love it, and every time I open it I learn something new. I'll tell ya what, I am glad you posted that message because I couldn't imagine having to learn something with even more post processing capabilities.

For me, the answer is "No". Like Steve said, it's largely personal preference. I think after we get done with the selection lesson (or lessons, as it may turn out), you will probably find several techniques that require absolutely minimal manual dexterity.

Panasonic Lumix G 14mm F2.5 ASPH

07/14/2005 08:44:33 PM · #19

Originally posted by Olyuzi:

Hey guys! Eagerly awaiting the selections lessons but I have a question in the meantime about hardware related to post processing. I have a feeling that using different selection techniques will require a great amount of manual dexterity and was wondering if you recommend purchasing those pen tablets, such as the ones made by Wacom. If so, then could you recommend a model that would be good for photographers?
Thanks,
Oly

Good question. You are right complex selections can require practice and dexterity. A tablet, which costs about $100 I think, is a good idea if you plan to do complex selections of irregular shapes on a regular basis. They are for sophisticated, artistic type users and makes doing that type of work easier. PS CS has built-ins that will respond to the amount of pressure you put on the tablet as well that the keyboard does not do.

I'm working on the selection lesson and should have it done soon. That should give you a better idea whether or not you might want to buy a tablet.

Olyuzi

Panasonic Lumix DMC-GX7

07/14/2005 01:48:27 PM · #20

sacredspirit

Canon EOS-600D/T3i Rebel

Canon EF-S 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 USM

07/13/2005 08:31:19 PM · #21

Canon EF 70-200mm f/2.8L IS USM

07/13/2005 08:29:41 PM · #22

Originally posted by sacredspirit:

yes sir, and indeed you are right. I apologize, but with the post processing thread open I would really like to know if Adobe 7.0 is a good program to be using or is there much better ones available. I have never used anything else seriously, but I really enjoy it.

Good question.

Photoshop is the industry standard product for still image editing. However, PS7 is an older version of the product. I don't own it, but the current version is Photoshop CS2.

aboutimage

Canon EOS-30D

07/13/2005 08:26:22 PM · #23

Originally posted by sacredspirit:

In my opinion, nothing can touch Photoshop for raw power. Some people like other programs, but I suspect it's because PS has a high initial learning curve which can be a bit daunting. If you stick with it, you'll find you can do ANYTHING with it.

sacredspirit

Canon EOS-600D/T3i Rebel

Canon EF-S 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 USM

07/13/2005 08:16:57 PM · #24