| Author | Thread |
|
|
08/20/2002 11:03:30 AM · #1 |
It has been brought to my attention a very bad mistake that I am making with my commenting. I have been trying to help people out and suggest things that could make their photos better in my mind and offer explanation as to how to achieve that. People may have noticed that I have commented about glares that I have found distracting and suggested Putting thin cloth or thin paper between the light source and the subject to help mellow down that glare.
It has been brought to my attention by a private message that I should not be making these comments because it is probably annoying to the people with all the extensive equipment that did it on purpose, and know all about how to "keep the glare down".
I am not upset at all to the person that brought this to my attention but I have a question that I would like opinions on.
Everyone knows by now which comments are mine. "and good luck with the challenge" That's me.
I would like to know if my comments have helped or harmed. I spent well over 40 hours last week trying to "help" so if I'm doing the opposite, I'd like to know, so I don't waste your time, and mine. My delema is this...
What about the people that DON'T have the expensive equipment and don't know how to fix the addressed problem? If I had not gotten a similar comment...my photos would all have really aweful glares on them still.
My question is this...
Have my coments helped or harmed? And should I take the advice of the PM and "not go into full detail about what they could have done to improve".
I would like everyones opinion on this...it is very important to me.
~Heather~
P.S. I am truely sorry if my comments have hurt anyone and will adjust as to what is said here in this forum by the photographers and voters. Thank you for your attention. |
|
|
|
08/20/2002 11:11:36 AM · #2 |
Heather, you should comment the way you see it. If YOU think the glare is not good, then comment on it and keep offering ways to improve it. Don't listen to whoever suggested that you change the way you comment...
|
|
|
|
08/20/2002 11:16:27 AM · #3 |
i agree with setzmeister.. you dont know so you can tell people what u see. if u want, use a qualifier like 'you may already be aware of this, but...'
:) |
|
|
|
08/20/2002 11:16:47 AM · #4 |
Heather,
Thanks for all of the commenting you do, and no... you have done absolutely nothing that warrants an apology-- in fact, you deserve thanks from everybody here.
I have found your comments to be among the most insightful... because you are quite good at explaining what you like, what you did not like, and (most importantly) why. You shouldn't feel bad about making a comment about glare... if you didn't like it in the photo (even if the photographer did it on purpose) there is nothing wrong with saying you didn't like it!
Besides... how you are you supposed to know whether the photographer of any particular has expensive equipment or not, or whether they added glare on purpose or not?? All you know is what you see in the photo and how you feel about it, and I for one am glad that you take the time to share it on over 180 photos.
I don't understand why people clamor for comments... but when the comments aren't what they expected because others don't see their photo the way they see it, they get upset. Makes no sense at all to me! :-~
Keep up the good work, Heather... and "good luck with the challenge" to you too!
* This message has been edited by the author on 8/20/2002 11:19:12 AM. |
|
|
|
08/20/2002 11:17:17 AM · #5 |
heather, don't apologize. there are too many people here just leaving 'great photo' kind of comments. if you find things distracting or think of ways you would like to see the photo and, even better, have ideas on how to achieve this, please leave the comment. if the person spent lots of time and used expensive equipment to create the glare, it might be of interest to him/her to know that the glare might be viewed as distracting by others. if they don't want to know, they need to learn to ignore comments. or not post.
sorry to rant on like this, but it bugs me that there's always two strains of discussion: not enough comments. and don't make those comments. make up your minds! from experience, i try and comment on many photos, including those that i rate low, and it's not easy - i commend heather for commenting on ALL photos! so, i think people should either start appreciating the comments they get and take the good with the bad, or maybe we should just remove the commenting option altogether.
ok, that feels better. i'll get off my high horse now. sorry about that. this topic just really bugs me :)
|
|
|
|
08/20/2002 11:19:16 AM · #6 |
In my opinion, comment away! Unless I'm tragically mistaken, I thought this site was for the purpose of improving photography skills, not so much to be a "feel good" site about photos.
It's always nice to hear a complimentary comment about a photo, but in all honestly "Nice shot!" as a comment doesn't help someone hone their skills. The helpful comments you have mentioned are designed to help people improve. That's why I'm here, anyway.
If someone doesn't have thick enough skin to accept constructive criticism, then they simply shouldn't be here. Post photos somewhere else and show them to your family and let them say "Wow" and "Awww" over them. If you want to improve skills and learn new techniques and composition skills, post photos here. It's that simple.
I should note that not all comments are going to be helpful or necessarily correct, and not everything you read from viewers should be taken as gospel. In addition to having some degree of thick skin, people who post photos here should also be able to evaluate comments and criticisms to decide whether they are really valid. Some comments are going to simply be wrong, and we need to be able to recognize that as well.
|
|
|
|
08/20/2002 11:20:54 AM · #7 |
You leave a paragraph on every single photo?? Now that's impressive! I think you're doing fine, and probably helping some people out. Like magnetic said, just add a qualifier like, "what *I* might do is..." if you think you're stepping on toes.
|
|
|
|
08/20/2002 11:22:35 AM · #8 |
| I might also add that I love the fact that we can explore the work of a photographer who has commented on our own work. For example, I would take a comment by jmsetzler quite seriously, because frankly his work and knowledge blows me away. If I explore someone's work and find that it's really amateurish, I tend to brush off their criticisms a bit if I don't immediately agree with them... |
|
|
|
08/20/2002 11:23:58 AM · #9 |
I for one really appreaciate your comments on my pictures. seems like no one else really takes the time to look at the whole picture. Please keep it up.
aelith |
|
|
|
08/20/2002 11:27:30 AM · #10 |
Heather,
Regardless of what messages you get from the photographer, every comment you leave that gives a suggestion for improvement of a photo is, in my opinion, helpful. If the photographer reads it and finds that it is not helpful they can choose to ignore it but because of the nature of this site and the fact that everything is made public at the close of the challenge, other users looking at the photo can read your comments and may find information there to help them out with their own photographs.
As you said, comments on your own submissions have pointed out things that you can improve yourself. Would you rather those comments were not made so you would continue to make the same mistakes or photograph in the same way? If your answer is no, then don't stop making suggestions for others. I know in my comments I put all kinds of things in there that would make it more appealing to me (compositon rethinking, exposure and even things like filters which not everyone can use or even knows about) and I do so in the hope that the photographer will realize that I am trying to educate them about and help them with their hobby and not tell them everything they did "wrong" (emphasis on the quotes) with a photo. Plus, not knowing the skill level of the photographer when judging, I treat everybody as though they were just starting out and make no assumptions about their experience and leave comments that I think would benefit a person with little experience. After all, everyone, no matter what their skill level, is always learning.
So, I would say definitely keep giving your suggestions because someone out there will appreciate them.
Courtenay |
|
|
|
08/20/2002 11:27:49 AM · #11 |
I think I should mention that the PM I recieve did NOT affect that person, but they were rather concerneed about other people. They were in NO way moaning about a comment left on their photo, rather comments that I had left for other people. They were concerned that I would offend or upset the people who have expensive equipment by suggesting they use a thin cloth to tone down the lighting.
I am in NO way, complaining about the PM, as it is a comment just like any other comment, and it is meant to help me improve my commenting. I appreciate it, and was just wondering how others felt as well.
Don't diss the person that made the comment on my comments. LOL I take ALL comments in stride, and that includes this. However, before I made drastic changes, I wanted to see how the majority felt. I'd love to hear more! But please don't downgrade the person that made the comment to me, they were just trying to help as well.
Thanks everyone, and keep the advice comming!!
P.S. GOOD LUCK WITH THE CHALLENGE! |
|
|
|
08/20/2002 11:28:10 AM · #12 |
Add me to the list that appreciates your work :) There's absolutely nothing wrong with the way you comment. Just the opposite.
Drew |
|
|
|
08/20/2002 11:30:15 AM · #13 |
I admit I wonder how you have time to leave such extensive comments, but when reading them, I find them to be very articulate and insightful, too.
That's too bad you were told this... you are right. You do not know who did what photo during the voting, so it is best to do as you are doing, and say it like you see it.
On other sites I found myself making a technical judgement on a photo. When I reviewed the person's portfolio to see their other work, a was slighly abashed as the person was obviously experienced. But, then again, I figured. Hey, you asked me by posting. This is what I honestly think.
:)
|
|
|
|
08/20/2002 11:32:54 AM · #14 |
Originally posted by drewmedia:
Add me to the list that appreciates your work :) There's absolutely nothing wrong with the way you comment. Just the opposite.
Drew
Heather - I certainly appreciate the time and effort you put into making your
comments. I know in my particular case you pointed out the glare, which
I'd tried pretty hard to avoid (including actually having tissues over the
flash gun :) ) but I still recognise the value of what you were saying.
It just tells me that I could have done better than I did.
I might suggest that you could do a lighting tutorial for the site and
then you could just point people to that in those cases where you think
it might be helpful ? It would save you repeating yourself and would be
a valuable addition. If you need help doing the web side of things,
I'm sure some of the Moderators would be happy to assist you.
* This message has been edited by the author on 8/20/2002 11:38:18 AM.
|
|
|
|
08/20/2002 11:37:45 AM · #15 |
Nice suggestion, Gordon! I think that's great!
|
|
|
|
08/20/2002 11:51:51 AM · #16 |
Ok, Drew just made me cry. lol. You are all very nice in your posts. I will say though, that my "track record" for quality photography is poor. I mean, lots of people like my photos, I have a great eye for photos and would LOVE to be able to actually take better photos. Some people are great at telling stories, but would fail miserably if they tried to write a book. I think that's me. I have a low quality camera and we just don't get along well. So I sit here and be proud of all of your photos all day. I admire them. Even the ones that not everyone else understands. I'm not big on first impressions, so I go back and back and back and...lol.
To answer the question of how I have so much time...it's just that. I have a lot of time. I have a 2 year old and watch the 3 year old next door. They play all day and even have their own computer for educational game play. For the most part, I am on DCP all day. Also checking out some other photography sites, and looking up things about the photos that I may not understand due to lack of knowlege on the subject involved. I live on a dead end dirt road, and my car broke down 2 years ago, and rather than fixing the simple water pump, (lol) it was the perfect opportunity to quit my job and stay my butt home. DCP is ON all day, but I do do other things. I don't neglect the kids, sometimes it takes me 45 minutes just to finish writing one of those paragraphs. We played tag today and on the fly by past the computer, I refreshed DCP and got to read a post or 2. The forums are for my down time, when I'm "distracted", and when I have some quiet time, I comment. I leave a photo up on the screen when we play or have story time so I can get a great look at it, up close and from afar. A lot of them would make GREAT desktop backgrounds. lol.
Egad! I'm expecting company in 30 minutes and I need a shower. LOL.
Talk to you all later! I really appreciate your feedback here today. Thank you a lot.
~Heather~ |
|
|
|
08/20/2002 11:53:53 AM · #17 |
Originally posted by GordonMcGregor:
Heather - I certainly appreciate the time and effort you put into making your
comments.
I might suggest that you could do a lighting tutorial for the site and
then you could just point people to that in those cases where you think
it might be helpful ?
[/i]
Heather,
Add me to the list of those who appreciate your time and effort. You have commented on my photos, and I have taken them to heart.
Also, Gordon's suggestion is a good one. All I work with is a built in flash and natural light (like a lot of others), and I am forever trying to improve my lighting techniques. This is probably the area where I need to improve the most.
If you could help the learning process, I and doubtless others would be highly appreciative.
Jim |
|
|
|
08/20/2002 12:00:24 PM · #18 |
A tutorial?!! LOL Now that would be a hoot. I myself just learned about the trick. But I would love to see a lighting tutorial. I would also love to see something on how to make the best with a lesser camera. I've gotten some comments already that are amazing and would never have figured out on my own. Lunch time!
~Heather~ |
|
|
|
08/20/2002 12:00:30 PM · #19 |
Well, I also think there's nothing to apologise for... but one thing I realised a long time ago about this site is that it has a kind of feedback effect. It's hard to describe, but what I mean is that the people submitting the photos and the people critiquing them are essentially the same group. The majority of photos submitted here are of a certain type, which most of the voters identify with and reward, and they critique photos that are different as though they're "wrong". This means unusual composition, intentional blur, intentional over or under exposure are all treated as mistakes, which can be annoying to the people who deliberately used them as techniques to express what they wanted in their photo.
What I found was that when I spent time thinking about critiques, I was usually suggesting ways to make photos more imaginative and interesting to me, and at the end of the challenge it seemed like I was the only person who saw them that way. On the other hand, photos I praised were often criticised by most people. As a result, I've decided that my role isn't really to critique photos but to give encouragement to people who I recognise as trying something different and unusual since they won't get it from most voters. That's not all I do, but it's important to me.
So I guess what I'm saying is that it takes a while to work out where you fit in with this crowd, what role you're interested in playing, who you want to reach out to the most, what you want to express, etc. Some people comment on every photo, and that's a nice role to set for yourself. But how much and what type of advice you give is up to you... find the level that makes you feel comfortable. It takes a few weeks to find your stride, and even then you might keep evolving. People talk about jmsetzler's critiques, but I'm not sure how many have noticed how his style has changed in subtle ways over time :). It's interesting to watch that happen to some people. |
|
|
|
08/20/2002 12:38:38 PM · #20 |
that's a good role to play, lisae :)
|
|
|
|
08/20/2002 12:51:44 PM · #21 |
This thread has gotten too long for me to read the whole thing before replying, but as per your apology... NOT ACCEPTED!!! I looked over your comments to me on this and the last challange and they were the most constructive, concise comments I've gotten... I will not accept an apology from someone that has done nothing wrong!
PLEASE continue to comment as much as you like... If it annoys one person that is a small price to pay for the help you do for the other 199...
One suggestion that might help... When I comment on something that didn't work for me, I try to word it something like this... "The (fill in the 'flaw') didn't work for me... If it was unintentional you could (fill in the 'fix')"
Thank you, Heather, for some of the best comments I've received in my 2 months here... Please don't stop on my account :)
My apologies if this was already covered... I promise to go back and read the whole thread when I have time :) |
|
|
|
08/20/2002 01:01:17 PM · #22 |
Originally posted by hbunch7187:
A tutorial?!! LOL Now that would be a hoot. I myself just learned about the trick. But I would love to see a lighting tutorial. I would also love to see something on how to make the best with a lesser camera. I've gotten some comments already that are amazing and would never have figured out on my own. Lunch time!
~Heather~
Maybe you could collaborate - esp. with those winners who used "lesser cameras"?
* This message has been edited by the author on 8/20/2002 1:00:21 PM.
|
|
|
|
08/20/2002 01:15:05 PM · #23 |
I think the reason that some ppl dont appreciate your comments is because you are a newbie to DPC. People think that you have no right to tell them how to improve when they've been her for monthes and you've been here for two weeks. I am also a newbie to photography and DPC so i try to stay away from the technical aspects of the picture. Leave that to the pros. But commenting on how it looks to you is fine.
PS-I'm sorry if this has already been said, its hard to remember this whole thread! :O)
* This message has been edited by the author on 8/20/2002 1:14:54 PM. |
|
|
|
08/20/2002 01:19:34 PM · #24 |
Heather
I looked at some of your comments and I think they are brilliant, I wish I were a digital photographer so I could get you to look at my work.
Regarding Meggie's comments. I too am reasonably new here AND I don't submit, but I have been into (regular film) photography as a hobby for well over 15 years. I'd hope people would be able to see past how long I'd been a member of this site to whether my comments were helpful, genuine and made in the spirit of friendship.
And I think more do take comments that way than don't.
Kavey |
|
|
|
08/20/2002 01:20:16 PM · #25 |
Originally posted by myqyl:
If it annoys one person that is a small price to pay for the help you do for the other 199...
Whoops, now that I've read the thread, I realise this was out of line as it's a dis to the person that PM'd Heather... Sorry, she's right... Your comment to her was as constructive as her comments to all of us...
I'm inspired now... I'm going to go do some comments :) |
|
