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 08/03/2012 02:34:58 PM · #126
Originally posted by SaraR:
I am really uncomfy with the whole idea of countries paying their athletes to win medals - surely such an incentive could at least exacerbate the likelihood of cheating, with athletes and coaches deciding that the risks were worth taking? Until today I hadn't actually realised that some countries offered such incentives!


Gawd, that's been going on forever. And don't forget that there's a long history of countries doing what China does now, where certain kids are literally tapped as potential Olympians in the cradle and raised, supported, and trained by the State to represent it in global competition. Communist-bloc countries are noted for this. In China they are apparently actually BREEDING for certain athletic traits, hoping to generate athletically-superior offspring for particular sports.
 08/03/2012 03:07:58 PM · #127
Originally posted by Bear_Music:
And don't forget that there's a long history of countries doing what China does now, where certain kids are literally tapped as potential Olympians in the cradle and raised, supported, and trained by the State to represent it in global competition


The creepiest example was of the diver who was kept ignorant of her grandparent's deaths and her mother's cancer, until she won the gold for China. Gotta keep that focus kiddo.

TANGENT ALERT As far as the shock that windfall cash rewards (like the USOC's gold medal payout) are taxable, it amazes me that people seem to have so much resentment towards their government that normal taxes are seen as ripping off the people who have to pay them. Our tax rates are lower than they have been in 40 years and are lower far lower than worldwide average, yet the perception is we are suffering under some unprecedented level of tax burden.
 08/03/2012 04:08:28 PM · #128
Originally posted by Bear_Music:
In China they are apparently actually BREEDING for certain athletic traits, hoping to generate athletically-superior offspring for particular sports.


Well, the Olympics should be about quality breeding! ;-)

Rafalca
 08/03/2012 05:22:36 PM · #129
See, THIS is what happened with the Eurovision Song Contest!

And the Jubilee.

And people complain about people complaining about the Olympics!

Sheeesh!

;)
 08/03/2012 05:33:49 PM · #130
Originally posted by Bear_Music:
Originally posted by SaraR:
I am really uncomfy with the whole idea of countries paying their athletes to win medals - surely such an incentive could at least exacerbate the likelihood of cheating, with athletes and coaches deciding that the risks were worth taking? Until today I hadn't actually realised that some countries offered such incentives!


Gawd, that's been going on forever. And don't forget that there's a long history of countries doing what China does now, where certain kids are literally tapped as potential Olympians in the cradle and raised, supported, and trained by the State to represent it in global competition. Communist-bloc countries are noted for this. In China they are apparently actually BREEDING for certain athletic traits, hoping to generate athletically-superior offspring for particular sports.


Oh they're breeding fine on their own ;).
 08/03/2012 05:40:59 PM · #131
Originally posted by BrennanOB:
Originally posted by Bear_Music:
And don't forget that there's a long history of countries doing what China does now, where certain kids are literally tapped as potential Olympians in the cradle and raised, supported, and trained by the State to represent it in global competition


The creepiest example was of the diver who was kept ignorant of her grandparent's deaths and her mother's cancer, until she won the gold for China. Gotta keep that focus kiddo.

TANGENT ALERT As far as the shock that windfall cash rewards (like the USOC's gold medal payout) are taxable, it amazes me that people seem to have so much resentment towards their government that normal taxes are seen as ripping off the people who have to pay them. Our tax rates are lower than they have been in 40 years and are lower far lower than worldwide average, yet the perception is we are suffering under some unprecedented level of tax burden.


I don't resent paying taxes. Given the state of our government, I don't think we're getting much for our money. My biggest objection to the 35% withholding is that I never get taxed at that rate and a significant portion of my bonus get loaned interest-free to the government to continue it's poor work. If they withheld money at a rate comparable to the tax rate I've paid over the years, I'd be happier about the whole thing.
 08/03/2012 06:14:04 PM · #132
Originally posted by Spork99:

I don't resent paying taxes. Given the state of our government, I don't think we're getting much for our money. My biggest objection to the 35% withholding is that I never get taxed at that rate and a significant portion of my bonus get loaned interest-free to the government to continue it's poor work. If they withheld money at a rate comparable to the tax rate I've paid over the years, I'd be happier about the whole thing.


... Lemme see if I can join this fray.

Every year I get a note from the government telling me that they "Anticipate" that my income for the year will be $XXXXXX dollars and that I am to remit percentage X in quarterly installments... even if I don't make that kind of money.

I even had a person from the tax department call me suggesting that I prepay what they thought I would owe, even before the quarterly due date... I asked him if they were running out of money.

Gotta love taxes.

Ray
 08/03/2012 06:26:01 PM · #133
They are taxed on the prize money, not the medal.

I'm assuming that was already stated in other posts (didn't read them).

Personally, I think it is crooked to tax the Olympic athletes on what they win at the games representing our country. They spend so much of their lives training, then win representing our country, and then the Guberment takes it away. Yes, they get endorsements, tax them on that. But, not what they win from the Games.

There are so few people in the US (relative to the population) who get a medal every 2 years that the bottom line to the US can't be anything to justify such a rude take-back. In a sense, the Guberment is getting tax money all throughout the athlete's training as they pay for the training received.

Its a shame.

Originally posted by jusjoshing:
Just found out about this, but did anyone know that american athletes who win a medal have to pay the IRS? Each olympic athlete wins a prize of 25k for gold and less for silver and less for bronze. But when they come home they have to pay 35% tax on their winnings. Michael Phelps has already paid 150some thousand in taxes on his medals. So rediculous. Meanwhile in most other countries, their returning athletes wont pay taxes on their winning a medal and representing their country. Total crap.
08/03/2012 06:29:06 PM · #134
Because bestowed upon them is an honor shared by so few relative to those in the sport. Its clearly an achievement at the global level. In a sense, they are not like any normal person.

Originally posted by Bear_Music:
Except it's not the government; it's the USOC paying the bonuses. I don't understand why they shouldn't get taxed like any normal person would.
08/03/2012 06:43:11 PM · #135
Originally posted by PGerst:
There are so few people in the US (relative to the population) who get a medal every 2 years that the bottom line to the US can't be anything to justify such a rude take-back. In a sense, the Guberment is getting tax money all throughout the athlete's training as they pay for the training received.


What payments do you think the government gets on their training? The USOC which pays for the training, is a charity. The people who train under them do so through the charity at no cost, but at substantial cost to the federal revenue, since the gifts from companies like Home Depot and General Motors are taken off their books.

I am puzzled why Mr. Phelps (millionaire) or Mr. James(Billionaire) ought to get a special carve out to not pay taxes, while the guy who wins the $35 prize at the county fair photo contest is taxed on his winnings and the fellow who wins the Nobel Prize pays his pound of flesh as well. We have enough "special" people (corporations people, right?) who get special deals.
 08/03/2012 06:46:34 PM · #136
Originally posted by BrennanOB:

I am puzzled why Mr. Phelps (millionaire) or Mr. James(Billionaire) ought to get a special carve out to not pay taxes, while the guy who wins the $35 prize at the county fair photo contest is taxed on his winnings and the fellow who wins the Nobel Prize pays his pound of flesh as well. We have enough "special" people (corporations people, right?) who get special deals.


There ya go! I just can't get my head around why OLympics should be any different than the Nobel, basically :-)
 08/03/2012 07:26:32 PM · #137
Not all of it.

Originally posted by BrennanOB:
The USOC which pays for the training, is a charity.
08/03/2012 07:27:37 PM · #138
Possibly because athletes who are competing at the Olympic level are doing so with the representation of the country.

Originally posted by Bear_Music:
There ya go! I just can't get my head around why OLympics should be any different than the Nobel, basically :-)
08/03/2012 07:44:02 PM · #139
Originally posted by PGerst:
Possibly because athletes who are competing at the Olympic level are doing so with the representation of the country.

Originally posted by Bear_Music:
There ya go! I just can't get my head around why OLympics should be any different than the Nobel, basically :-)


So anyone that represents the country should have a tax break?
 08/03/2012 07:50:02 PM · #140
In the Olympics? Yes.

Originally posted by JamesDowning:
Originally posted by PGerst:
Possibly because athletes who are competing at the Olympic level are doing so with the representation of the country.

Originally posted by Bear_Music:
There ya go! I just can't get my head around why OLympics should be any different than the Nobel, basically :-)


So anyone that represents the country should have a tax break?
08/03/2012 08:02:31 PM · #141
Originally posted by PGerst:
Possibly because athletes who are competing at the Olympic level are doing so with the representation of the country.


I am pleased as punch that UCBerekeley alums and students now have nine medals at the Olympics, but I think it brings more glory to Cal (and the USA) that Saul Perlmutter won (shared really) the 2011 Nobel prize in Physics.

The fact that we so honor athletic achievement over academic achievement represents a decline in the fortunes of out country. Of course this is their season and I cheer their reach for glory, but to say they belong in a special class of human beings above all others is wrong on so many levels.

Message edited by author 2012-08-03 20:02:58.
 08/03/2012 08:07:29 PM · #142
Originally posted by BrennanOB:
The fact that we so honor athletic achievement over academic achievement represents a decline in the fortunes of out country. Of course this is their season and I cheer their reach for glory, but to say they belong in a special class of human beings above all others is wrong on so many levels.


I donno. You, Brennan, are articulate, rational, compassionate, and quietly persuasive. I hereby declare you a National Treasure and confer upon you a tax-free status. Go forth and prosper :-)

R.
 08/03/2012 08:30:33 PM · #143
I was disappointed when they allowed professionals in the Olympics even though some countries, ie Cuba, Russia, China, had there athletes in a totally amatuer status. That's not the point of this recent discussion so let me continue. Even though the true amatuers are paying taxes on there medals now, how much money does that leave in their pocket? This balance after the taxes is how much more than they would have gotten years ago when no payment was made?

Just something to ponder!
 08/03/2012 08:32:59 PM · #144
Not at all what I said. I referred specifically to the Olympic athletes. Their achievement to that degree should be recognized as such and not be taxed by the very country they are representing. If there are any other events, academic, athletic, or otherwise, that fall into the same comparative level as the Olympics: worldwide competition of representative states, then that should be brought into the comparison as well. Any other mention of lower collegiate sports or activities is beyond the scope of the comparison I (and many others) are trying to make. But, to my knowledge there is no other level of competition in the past 100 years held so high and shared by so many. If there are, please bring them forward. If not, I think my point is made.

** Not much more to say here for me. I have my opinion, others have theirs. I would only be repeating myself at this point. Now, it is up to those who represent us to make the decision to continue to tax or not **

On a separate note, Phelp got his 21st medal today!!!

Originally posted by BrennanOB:
The fact that we so honor athletic achievement over academic achievement represents a decline in the fortunes of out country. Of course this is their season and I cheer their reach for glory, but to say they belong in a special class of human beings above all others is wrong on so many levels.


Message edited by author 2012-08-03 21:10:23.
 08/03/2012 08:55:48 PM · #145
I believe that if you look at the history of the modern Olympic Games you'll find that the athletes were explicitly NOT "representing their country" but only themselves -- the whole "medal count" business is purely a fabrication of the media eager to create conflict/controversy (i.e. interest) and nothing to do with the original mission. I believe countries only come into it as a way of keeping the competition reasonable organized and open -- I'm not sure there would be much interest or support for a 100-meter final with eight Jamaicans, a ski-jump final with nine Norwegians, or a basketball final with the Lakers vs the Celtics (well, maybe that last is not the ideal example) ...
 08/03/2012 08:57:47 PM · #146
Originally posted by PGerst:
Their achievement to that degree should be recognized as such and not be taxed by the very country they are representing.


If they don't want to be taxed, they're welcome to refuse the medals.
 08/03/2012 09:04:18 PM · #147
Originally posted by mycelium:
Originally posted by PGerst:
Their achievement to that degree should be recognized as such and not be taxed by the very country they are representing.


If they don't want to be taxed, they're welcome to refuse the medals.


Just refuse the reward money, the medal isn't taxed.
 08/03/2012 09:34:56 PM · #148
Originally posted by PGerst:
Because bestowed upon them is an honor shared by so few relative to those in the sport. Its clearly an achievement at the global level. In a sense, they are not like any normal person.

Originally posted by Bear_Music:
Except it's not the government; it's the USOC paying the bonuses. I don't understand why they shouldn't get taxed like any normal person would.


Speaking the truth brother. All of your points are fantastic and I agree with them!
 08/03/2012 09:52:01 PM · #149
Originally posted by PGerst:
But, to my knowledge there is no other level of competition in the past 100 years held so high and shared by so many. If there are, please bring them forward. If not, I think my point is made.\


If you feel the Noble prize, the Feilds medal, the Pritzker prize, the Lasker award or a MacArthur grant are inherently inferior to an Olympic medal, then I feel you may not be willing to understand my point.

Originally posted by PGerst:
Any other mention of lower collegiate sports or activities is beyond the scope of the comparison I (and many others) are trying to make


BTW my mention of the 9 medals was the medal count at the London Olympics for the collegiate representatives of my old school. We have 45 students and alums at the games (representing various countries), and I'm proud of my Bears, they will at least double their medal count before the games are over. I'm also proud of all the Americans over there representing the US, and also glad to see all the other great athletes representing their countries, but do not see them as being worthy of special tax status. When we start saying that certain award money is so important to national pride that it deserves special taxation, while that awarded in other fields has lesser value we expose our priorities.

Why is an American swimming 50 meters more quickly than anyone else more important to our country than a pair of Americans' discovery of leptin, a hormone that regulates appetite and body weight—a breakthrough that opened obesity research to molecular exploration which won the Lasker prize in 2010?

Message edited by author 2012-08-03 21:54:19.
 08/03/2012 09:54:51 PM · #150
Originally posted by PGerst:
...But, to my knowledge there is no other level of competition in the past 100 years held so high and shared by so many.


...and sadly, that is the crux of the problem.

Ray
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