DPChallenge: A Digital Photography Contest You are not logged in. (log in or register) 
 

DPChallenge Forums >> Photography Discussion >> Official Get rid of basic editing petition thread
Pages:  
Showing posts 151 - 175 of 284, (reverse)
AuthorThread
 03/09/2012 03:18:45 PM · #151
FWIW, I would vote for dumping Basic and using Minimal in it's place with the addition of crop and rotate allowances.
 03/09/2012 03:21:21 PM · #152
Originally posted by levyj413:
Originally posted by Bear_Music:
"Basic Editing" should be dropped. Instead, our baseline ruleset should be what we now call "Minimal Editing", with a couple changes; we should be allowed to clone dust, and we should be allowed to rotate in whatever increments we choose, not just 90-degree increments.
R.


Just to clarify, Robert, if we allowed non-90 degree rotations, wouldn't we then need to allow cropping? Otherwise we'd be creating new image area (and the images would be odd-looking).


Good point :-)
 03/09/2012 03:44:31 PM · #153
Originally posted by Ecce Signum:


bingo? I must be on the wrong site, if you achieve a blue ribbon but not prepared to share your image outside of dpc maybe this is the wrong site to be on? Gyaban is an excellent photographer and better than I'll ever be but I sometimes wonder if he (or anybody else for that matter) are better at making silk purses out of..... to coin a phrase.

Now, I've been away for a while so not up on the dynamics of dpc today however if I were new to the site and read this I'd probably move on.

I wonder just how many people would be happy submitting their original in their notes? I would and maybe that would show the masses that their boring flat image could be a ribbon winner with some deft post processing?


it gets dressed up more, there aren't any restrictions outside of dpc and i take that liberty.
 03/09/2012 03:53:34 PM · #154
Originally posted by Ecce Signum:

bingo? I must be on the wrong site, if you achieve a blue ribbon but not prepared to share your image outside of dpc maybe this is the wrong site to be on? Gyaban is an excellent photographer and better than I'll ever be but I sometimes wonder if he (or anybody else for that matter) are better at making silk purses out of..... to coin a phrase.


What permits you to say that? I've entered challenges under all the 4 rules sets. I tried them, and have personal preferences. Since I was quoted in the discussion as someone not entering much basic/minimal editing challenges, I just wanted to explain why. That's it. I don't mind at all if other wants to enter them, I don't militate against these rules set at all. If you like them and think they suit your work, then enter; I just personally don't, that's it, no drama.
 03/09/2012 03:53:42 PM · #155
Out of curiosity, in expert editing, can I submit POV-Ray images?
Never mind, I know you can't, but I don't see how they're any different than most of the winning entries in those challenges?

I'd be for minimal challenges showing up more frequently.

CS
 03/09/2012 03:59:07 PM · #156
Originally posted by cosmicassassin:
Out of curiosity, in expert editing, can I submit POV-Ray images?


Yes, you can.
 03/09/2012 04:04:16 PM · #157
Originally posted by gyaban:
Yes, you can.
Are you kidding? I used to work on the source code for POV-Ray. I honestly don't see how it's photography, but at least I know my skills there are better than behind the camera.

CS
 03/09/2012 04:09:34 PM · #158
Originally posted by cosmicassassin:
Originally posted by gyaban:
Yes, you can.
Are you kidding?


Many entries contain parts that are pure CGI, although most of the time these are hand-drawn details, not entire scenes. But strictly speaking, it wouldn't be against the rules, even if voters would probably score it relatively low.
 03/09/2012 04:10:27 PM · #159
Originally posted by cosmicassassin:
Originally posted by gyaban:
Yes, you can.
Are you kidding? I used to work on the source code for POV-Ray. I honestly don't see how it's photography, but at least I know my skills there are better than behind the camera.


No, he's not kidding. A lot of his effects are created out of whole cloth in Photoshop. I don't offhand see why it wouldn't be OK to create them in other programs than PS and import them for assembly within a photographically-based composite. I'm pretty sure we couldn't get away with 100% rendering, but adding rendered elements to a photograph would be apparently be OK based on what I've seen Christophe do (and have validated).

Of course, I'm no SC... This is just a lay opinion.

R.
 03/09/2012 04:11:06 PM · #160
Not to complicate it even more, but what about shooting in RAW, I would think Minimal would tend to encourage JPEG only shots...
 03/09/2012 04:11:48 PM · #161
By the way, I used to play around with POV-RAY back in the day...
 03/09/2012 04:13:46 PM · #162
Originally posted by goinskiing:
Not to complicate it even more, but what about shooting in RAW, I would think Minimal would tend to encourage JPEG only shots...


That's the fly in the ointment, yes. To have a reasonable set of minimal rules would require only JPG originals. It's easy enough to deal with, though; those of us who use RAW can opt for RAW+JPG; they don't even have to be the highest-quality JPG since they are only going to be used at 800 pixels...

R.
 03/09/2012 04:20:51 PM · #163
Originally posted by gyaban:
Originally posted by Ecce Signum:

bingo? I must be on the wrong site, if you achieve a blue ribbon but not prepared to share your image outside of dpc maybe this is the wrong site to be on? Gyaban is an excellent photographer and better than I'll ever be but I sometimes wonder if he (or anybody else for that matter) are better at making silk purses out of..... to coin a phrase.


What permits you to say that? I've entered challenges under all the 4 rules sets. I tried them, and have personal preferences. Since I was quoted in the discussion as someone not entering much basic/minimal editing challenges, I just wanted to explain why. That's it. I don't mind at all if other wants to enter them, I don't militate against these rules set at all. If you like them and think they suit your work, then enter; I just personally don't, that's it, no drama.


Freedom of speech does! imho many if not most photographers here would give anything to have your talent and (again imho) you turn round saying your basic challenge entries are only good for showing at dpc. And as I said at the start, I've not been around for a year or so and probably missing something. Sorry if 'dragged' you back into this but I personally resent your matter of fact comment regarding your example.
 03/09/2012 04:30:54 PM · #164
Originally posted by gyaban:
Originally posted by cosmicassassin:
Originally posted by gyaban:
Yes, you can.
Are you kidding?


Many entries contain parts that are pure CGI, although most of the time these are hand-drawn details, not entire scenes. But strictly speaking, it wouldn't be against the rules, even if voters would probably score it relatively low.
Where's the cutoff? How much photography do we need in a photograph?

Time to dust off my old code. POV-Ray used to be something I did all the time to pass by the days of graduate school.

CS
 03/09/2012 04:34:40 PM · #165
Originally posted by Ecce Signum:

Freedom of speech does! imho many if not most photographers here would give anything to have your talent and (again imho) you turn round saying your basic challenge entries are only good for showing at dpc.


I was not questioning your freedom of speech. My English isn't very good, sorry for the confusion. I was wondering what sentence of mine triggered your reaction, which is clearer for me now. As for my basic challenge entries, yes indeed, I don't like them much, for me they are either unfinished products, either products that should not have been done that way. I am not trying to be arrogant or anything, I just can't prevent myself from considering these as full of flaws that I dislike. This is simply why I do not wish to enter such challenges much more. After all, we are all here because we are doing things we like to do!
 03/09/2012 04:34:58 PM · #166
Originally posted by Ecce Signum:
Originally posted by gyaban:
Originally posted by Ecce Signum:

bingo? I must be on the wrong site, if you achieve a blue ribbon but not prepared to share your image outside of dpc maybe this is the wrong site to be on? Gyaban is an excellent photographer and better than I'll ever be but I sometimes wonder if he (or anybody else for that matter) are better at making silk purses out of..... to coin a phrase.


What permits you to say that? I've entered challenges under all the 4 rules sets. I tried them, and have personal preferences. Since I was quoted in the discussion as someone not entering much basic/minimal editing challenges, I just wanted to explain why. That's it. I don't mind at all if other wants to enter them, I don't militate against these rules set at all. If you like them and think they suit your work, then enter; I just personally don't, that's it, no drama.


Freedom of speech does! imho many if not most photographers here would give anything to have your talent and (again imho) you turn round saying your basic challenge entries are only good for showing at dpc. And as I said at the start, I've not been around for a year or so and probably missing something. Sorry if 'dragged' you back into this but I personally resent your matter of fact comment regarding your example.

Maybe something is getting lost in translation here?

I think the point that Christophe was trying to make (and he can correct me if I am wrong) is basically the same as I said earlier about my abandoned Abstract Macro image. Because of the unique and arbitrary limitations of the basic ruleset, you sometimes end up shooting in a less that ideal way to cater to these limitations specifically. So you end up with a a shot that isn't ideal for further editing and more flattering presentation somewhere else.
In my case I shot a macro of a shiny object in a less that ideal angle so as to avoid bright highlights that I could not subsequently tone down with spot editing because of the basic limitations.
 03/09/2012 04:40:09 PM · #167
Originally posted by Brent_S:

Maybe something is getting lost in translation here?

I think the point that Christophe was trying to make (and he can correct me if I am wrong) is basically the same as I said earlier about my abandoned Abstract Macro image. Because of the unique and arbitrary limitations of the basic ruleset, you sometimes end up shooting in a less that ideal way to cater to these limitations specifically. So you end up with a a shot that isn't ideal for further editing and more flattering presentation somewhere else.
In my case I shot a macro of a shiny object in a less that ideal angle so as to avoid bright highlights that I could not subsequently tone down with spot editing because of the basic limitations.


Thanks Brent, that's it :)
 03/09/2012 04:41:45 PM · #168
Christophe, yes, you and Brent are correct and believe this might be down to translation? My apologies if you think I was attacking you or your or your work - am an admirer of what your produce btw.

So, back on topic folks and apologies for the hiatus.
 03/09/2012 04:45:49 PM · #169
Originally posted by Ecce Signum:
Christophe, yes, you and Brent are correct and believe this might be down to translation?


Yes of course! No need to apologize btw, my English level is to be blamed. And thanks for the kind words, much appreciated!
 03/09/2012 04:47:59 PM · #170
Feel the DPC love!

I totally agree with Brent and Cristophe...
 03/09/2012 05:01:35 PM · #171
I still think that having these rules of minimal editing etc that DON'T allow retouched are the beauty of the challenges... I played sports and am naturally very competitive... So I relate it to the thrill of the game... You can't go back and change the play in football or basketball just like you can't go back and reshoot the sunrise because your white balance was off or someone walked into the shot. If you screw up a photo in minimal/basic and it sucks you have to make the decision to not enter or enter and risk the wrath of dpc. Of course I've noticed that most voters are more forgiving for these errors when voting on basic/minimal challenges.
 03/09/2012 05:28:39 PM · #172
I'm no tat all surprised at:
- the sheer amount of discussion this generates
- the incredible diversity of viewpoints
It's clear that Basic has not kept pace with the times. We can now do things with a click that took hours of careful work when Basic was rolled out. It's also clear that the "tools-based" nature of Basic makes it nearly impossible to keep updated, as the available tools change and advance.
We tried, oh we tried, to come up with a way to make Basic results-based like Advanced. I'm kinda glad we failed; I'm not sure that's a solution at all. I'm also not sure that getting rid of it outright is a solution.
From a personal standpoint, I dislike Basic. Intensely. I won't enter basic Editing challenges, since I would never shoot specifically with Basic in mind. What I dislike even more than Basic, though, is Minimal. I simply have no idea why we would ever regard the out-of-camera image as something that should be a finished product. The digital darkroom is just that, a modern equivalent of the wet darkroom, where the required post-processing happens. It's an integral part of what makes photography art.
It seems to me that what we really need is to step back from the problem and ask ourselves what DPC really needs. Do we even need a rule-set that is more restrictive than Advanced, and if we do, why do we? Once we agree on the "whys" *then* we can intelligently talk about the alternatives available to us.
03/09/2012 05:58:14 PM · #173
I'm with Kirbic... Let's all stand back and try to see the trees in the forest. :O)
 03/09/2012 07:42:59 PM · #174
I value the different approaches to photography at dpc. If we are talking about "what dpc needs" let's consider an analogy to the health of the planet: eliminating Basic just because technology and usage has marched on seems to me like eliminating well water in favour of bottled, open pollenated species in favour of hybrids. OK. It's only an analogy, but I do rather resent the assumption that people who dislike digital darkrooming are idlers, luddites and not real artists. No one is forcing anyone to enter a basic competition.
 03/09/2012 07:50:40 PM · #175
I'd have no problem going minimal, advanced, and expert -- if you allow cropping in minimal. When you do wildlife, it's extremely rare not cropping. For most other types of photography, you can get yourself into place so you don't need to crop. Much more difficult with wildlife.
Pages:  
Current Server Time: 07/28/2025 01:09:17 PM

Please log in or register to post to the forums.


Home - Challenges - Community - League - Photos - Cameras - Lenses - Learn - Help - Terms of Use - Privacy - Top ^
DPChallenge, and website content and design, Copyright © 2001-2025 Challenging Technologies, LLC.
All digital photo copyrights belong to the photographers and may not be used without permission.
Current Server Time: 07/28/2025 01:09:17 PM EDT.