Official Get rid of basic editing petition thread

Canon EF 28-135mm F/3.5-5.6 IS USM

03/10/2012 06:16:10 PM · #226

dpc is slowly dying???? If I unhook the machines can I still eat popcorn?

Kelli

Canon EOS-D60

03/10/2012 06:21:08 PM · #227

Originally posted by stphq:

Originally posted by Kelli:

for whatever reason, my 40D is much noiser than the original Rebel that I had gotten from Deb under certain conditions. The only way I can fix that is using layers while using denoise software.

thats a fair enough comment and all our cameras have limitations we need to work within.. and having looked at your photos Kelli, you take great shots. I just feel as their is very little basic editing challenges why are people so ready to dump them when others clearly enjoy them.. there is plenty advanced editing challanges that meet the demands of people who like to edit more, and expert challanges for those who like to be even more creative with editing... to me getting rid of basic editing will do more for scaring off newcomers than it will for keeping current members happy when there is already challenges with rulesets that fit waht they want..

This isn't really a reason, but I guess it could be. I recently got a DQ for doing advanced editing in a basic challenge. I didn't even notice it was basic as it was a members challenge. When I got asked for validation is when I realized it. My bad. I know I should have read it better. But after being here so long you do get used to certain things and one of those things is advanced editing in members challenges. I almost did the same thing with the current macro challenge, realized it when I went to enter and had to start over with my editing. The extent of my advanced editing on that one was cloning out a small hot spot. So when I redid it, I cropped it out instead. In the case of the DQ, my advanced editing consisted of selective blurring. That was it. So to me, both of these things that did and/or could have gotten me DQ'd were what I'd consider basic editing, though not by DPC rules. Nothing fancy at all. I think that's what is frustrating people. It doesn't have to be over edited to be advanced. Just stupid little things most people do with most of their images.

Canon 12x IS USM (S3 IS built-in Lens) -- 36-432mm (35mm EQ)

03/10/2012 06:49:37 PM · #228

Originally posted by kirbic:

Originally posted by stphq:
Is winning all thats important to you people??, and on challenges with no prizes at that.. lol.. talk about obsessed. Isn't doing reasonably well, improving your technique, taking part and enjoying photography more important?..

Well, um, it *is* called DPChallenge, now, isn't it?

Yes, but the challenge doesn't have to be to the other entrants -- it can simply be to create a photo conforming to the challenge guidelines.

People often compare the challenges to an assignment -- in school, do only the three "best" essays get posted and all the other students paraded in shame before the student body, or does everyone just hope for the best grade they can get and get on to the next project. If your college admission depended on your ranking at DPC I can see getting all concerned about it, but it's just a few colored pixels displayed for a week ...

03/10/2012 07:19:46 PM · #229

Originally posted by tnun:

mike_311, what exactly is your problem with a few people enjoying themselves outside of advanced post- processing? Are you threatened by people who don't get with the program that works so well for you?

The problem I have is that the folks appear to be against advanced editing believe it to be what expert editing is. I also take back my lazy comment, it was a back handed reply to an ignorant statement.

I'm not threatened by anyone. outside of dpc I find even the advanced ruleset extremely limiting. Just because a challenge may allow some form of editing doesn't mean you need to do it. It seems obvious most of the pro basic folks are threatened by a rule set they think gives an unfair advantage.

Canon EF-S 18-135mm f/3.5-5.6 IS

03/10/2012 07:36:59 PM · #230

No one said they were against advanced editing. Or expert. Just that they kind of liked, were fond of, saw a reason for editing which was a bit less than "advanced." Why do you wish to remove that option - an option which to my mind is not so much a question of the editing but of refocusing?

Denielle

Canon EOS-7D Mark II

03/10/2012 07:47:35 PM · #231

To add to the thread... I'm slowly adding steps with each advanced challenge I enter. And DPC better not be dying... I just got here and want to be for a long time!

MargaretNet

Apple iPhone 15 Pro

Sony FE 24-105mm F4 G OSS

03/10/2012 08:06:26 PM · #232

Originally posted by MargaretN:

Originally posted by MargaretN:
Down with Basic!! ;)

+1

+1 trillion
(can't keep up with this thread!)

03/10/2012 08:10:15 PM · #233

Originally posted by tnun:

i proposed way back to get rid of basic and right away that ruffled feathers, along the way advanced editing got made into to a set of evil methods that ruined image integrity while basic became the model of photographic image purity, as if advanced editing was the savior of all evil photography faux pas and laziness.

yeah, I'm dramatizing.

the adverse reaction by many stems from an ignorance of what advanced editing actually is, its not even close to being advanced. you don't even need Photoshop to break the basic rules, any plain jane raw camera software will break the rules that come free with most cameras will break the rules.

just rename the stupid rule set and we'll revisit this later when people figure out what the rules actually allow to do and not to do and opposed to just blindly assuming that it even resembles anything close to its name.

in basic people make their images look like paintings but god forbid we were to be able to fix lens distortions or do some dodge and burn on our entries.

Message edited by author 2012-03-10 20:10:47.

Canon 12x IS USM (S3 IS built-in Lens) -- 36-432mm (35mm EQ)

03/10/2012 08:13:05 PM · #234

Originally posted by mike_311:

I find even the advanced ruleset extremely limiting.

ANY rule set will be limiting -- that's the whole purpose of it in the first place. Different people will find different aspects of any rule set limiting; such is the nature of the beast.

As a "practical" suggestion, why don't you design what you would feel would be the "ideal" standard rule set for running challenges here, and run a side challenge where people must conform to it; then see if you get the results you desire?

Get some feedback, and if you have any modifications to the rules which seem to work well, then you can offer them as specific suggestions, instead of just ~~bitching carping complaining~~ pointing out perceived weaknesses with what has worked reasonably well for a few years ...

bvy

Sigma DP1x

03/10/2012 08:14:56 PM · #235

Originally posted by MargaretN:

Originally posted by MargaretN:

Originally posted by MargaretN:
Down with Basic!! ;)

+1

+1 trillion
(can't keep up with this thread!)

Down with plus-one-ing ourselves!!!

03/10/2012 08:19:34 PM · #236

Originally posted by GeneralE:

Originally posted by mike_311:
I find even the advanced ruleset extremely limiting.

ANY rule set will be limiting -- that's the whole purpose of it in the first place. Different people will find different aspects of any rule set limiting; such is the nature of the beast.

As a "practical" suggestion, why don't you design what you would feel would be the "ideal" standard rule set for running challenges here, and run a side challenge where people must conform to it; then see if you get the results you desire?

Get some feedback, and if you have any modifications to the rules which seem to work well, then you can offer them as specific suggestions, instead of just ~~bitching carping complaining~~ pointing out perceived weaknesses with what has worked reasonably well for a few years ...

im talking about my photography outside dpc, i understand why the rules for challenges and im fine with having them, i dont want free reign.

i like the term "standard editing" as a rename for advanced editing and my ideal rule set would be just what advanced editing is, i have no complaints about that. i just think basic serves no purpose any longer, just get rid of it altogether and run more minimal instead.

Message edited by author 2012-03-10 20:32:35.

03/10/2012 08:30:19 PM · #237

Not too bad a suggestion - running more minimal instead.

Canon 12x IS USM (S3 IS built-in Lens) -- 36-432mm (35mm EQ)

03/10/2012 08:32:22 PM · #238

Originally posted by mike_311:

i just think basic serves no purpose any longer, just get rid of it altogether and run more minimal instead.

Removing the ability to crop and rotate, if noting else, makes a significant difference between Minimal and Basic. Of course, being able to control tone and contrast -- even on a global basis -- also makes a huge difference, while I find fine-tuning with Unsharp Mask (vs the standard Sharpen) is not quite so big a deal.

Being able to control tone and contrast within selected areas (see my River Bend How-To), and the ability to do spot editing (dodge/burn/clone) makes a significant difference in stepping from Basic to Advanced. Combining images differentiates Expert (I'd like to change that name to Extended).

Originally posted by tnun:

Not too bad a suggestion - running more minimal instead.

Twice in the past two weeks (including currently) I've entered an image edited within the Minimal rules -- any adjustment would have been so subtle I chose see how it would do as-is, given that it would not be contending for a ribbon in any event.

Message edited by author 2012-03-10 20:35:55.

03/10/2012 08:32:48 PM · #239

Originally posted by bvy:

Originally posted by MargaretN:

Originally posted by MargaretN:

Originally posted by MargaretN:
Down with Basic!! ;)

+1

+1 trillion
(can't keep up with this thread!)

Down with plus-one-ing ourselves!!!

Hmn. Difficult to know whether to be reassured or alarmed at persistently escalating agreement with oneself.

Message edited by author 2012-03-10 20:33:33.

Canon EF 100mm f/2.8 USM Macro

03/10/2012 08:37:03 PM · #240

Originally posted by GeneralE:

Of course, being able to control tone and contrast -- even on a global basis -- also makes a huge difference, while I find fine-tuning with Unsharp Mask (vs the standard Sharpen) is not quite so big a deal.

it does make a huge jump from minimal, so if you are going to allow it, why not go all the way? i see no point in limiting it to the WHOLE image, if we want to control that aspect, let us truly control it.

jotaga

Canon EOS-7D

03/10/2012 09:27:28 PM · #241

Minimal

Canon 12x IS USM (S3 IS built-in Lens) -- 36-432mm (35mm EQ)

03/10/2012 09:45:08 PM · #242

Originally posted by mike_311:

... so if you are going to allow it, why not go all the way? i see no point in limiting it to the WHOLE image, if we want to control that aspect, let us truly control it.

Because without that level of control, more of a premium is placed on the quality of the original framing and exposure decisions. It's an admittedly arbitrary distinction -- as I mentioned, the goal is to do the best you can within a specific set of restrictions, not to present the best-ever possible image of some particular scene. You can always display your "fully-edited" or alternate version in the outtakes thread -- showing us your own image "Basic vs Advanced" would be educational ... remember that the real goal of the site is for us to help each other become better, not to win some prize ...

Lydia

Canon EOS-6D

Canon EF 100mm f/2.8L Macro IS USM

03/10/2012 09:48:07 PM · #243

My vote goes to keeping it.

Although I cringe and mumble under my breath every time a Basic Editing challenge is announced, I do like the challenge.

glad2badad

DJI Mavic Air 2

Sears 55mm f/1.4 M42

03/10/2012 09:51:35 PM · #244

Originally posted by GeneralE:

Originally posted by mike_311:
... so if ...
... You can always display your "fully-edited" or alternate version in the outtakes thread -- showing us your own image "Basic vs Advanced" would be educational ... remember that the real goal of the site is for us to help each other become better, not to win some prize ...

Touché!

MargaretNet

Apple iPhone 15 Pro

Sony FE 24-105mm F4 G OSS

03/10/2012 10:22:16 PM · #245

I have finally given up on reading this thread as there are just too many posts and wildly ra(n)ging opinions! BUT I personally resent that some participants consider Photoshop as a tool of the devil, something we should not touch as DPCers. We should all throw away our computers and submit photo prints for voting! And we should make certain that we have them printed on the most basic printer that we can all have access to, and print on the lowest quality paper!

FFS - DPC stands for DIGITAL Photography Challenge!

What's wrong with using software to enhance/realize your VISION?? Maybe the problem is that many participants just DON'T HAVE IT!?? Maybe we SHOULD encourage photographers who do have a VISION. What would DPC be without people like Gyaban, Librodo, Whiteroom ?? And they don't treat Photoshop as a dirty word!

Maybe we should bring DPC into the 21st century and stop clinging to the past.

DOWN with the Basic.

03/10/2012 10:24:32 PM · #246

Originally posted by GeneralE:

fair points, now if only the voters judged the images that same way.

lola72

Canon EF 50mm f/1.4 USM

03/10/2012 10:36:21 PM · #247

Originally posted by jmlelii:

WTF is topaz lol

LOLOL!!!!

Canon 12x IS USM (S3 IS built-in Lens) -- 36-432mm (35mm EQ)

03/10/2012 11:48:47 PM · #248

Originally posted by MargaretN:

BUT I personally resent that some participants consider Photoshop as a tool of the devil, something we should not touch as DPCers. We should all throw away our computers ...

I don't know where you get that from -- I've been using Photoshop since version 2.0, and I use it for every Basic-rules challenge. I know I couldn't turn this

into this

within the basic rules, but so what? It just means I wouldn't enter that particular picture into a Basic-rules challenge ... there are plenty of other places here at DPC to show off your work, and usually to better advantage than it would get in the context of a challenge entry ...

Message edited by author 2012-03-10 23:49:14.

bvy

Sigma DP1x

03/10/2012 11:51:27 PM · #249

Originally posted by MargaretN:

Please name one such participant who suggested as much.