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DPChallenge Forums >> Current Challenge >> Break the Rules = Hidden Gem?
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 02/04/2016 04:40:36 PM · #26
Originally posted by jomari:
Surely it's no harder to break only one rule than to break the usual none?
the difference between one and none is the biggest difference in the Universe
 02/04/2016 05:30:33 PM · #27
Technically if you do not break a rule you are breaking the rule to break a rule............
 02/04/2016 06:27:50 PM · #28
Originally posted by PapaBob:
Technically if you do not break a rule you are breaking the rule to break a rule............

Except that's a description, not a rule :-) Maybe we SHOULD have flagged it! Then we'd be in the position of calling for proof on images we think DON'T break the editing rules!

Message edited by author 2016-02-04 18:28:39.
 02/04/2016 06:47:08 PM · #29
Originally posted by Bear_Music:
Originally posted by PapaBob:
Technically if you do not break a rule you are breaking the rule to break a rule............

Except that's a description, not a rule :-) Maybe we SHOULD have flagged it! Then we'd be in the position of calling for proof on images we think DON'T break the editing rules!


That would be a great DQ description, "Image was DQ'd for failing to break a rule"
 02/04/2016 07:05:29 PM · #30
beginning to sound like Moliere.
 02/06/2016 09:46:21 AM · #31

1 day and 14 hours left · 16 entries received · Enter this challenge

I will if you will:)
 02/06/2016 10:32:50 AM · #32
Originally posted by PennyStreet:
1 day and 14 hours left · 16 entries received · Enter this challenge

I will if you will:)

Ok...I will.
 02/06/2016 12:03:29 PM · #33
Originally posted by Hipychik:
Originally posted by PennyStreet:
1 day and 14 hours left · 16 entries received · Enter this challenge

I will if you will:)

Ok...I will.


Me 2
 02/06/2016 03:25:51 PM · #34
Are out-of-time-frame photos really allowed in this challenge?! When submitting a photo for that contest one is asked to confirm that the entry was based on photograph(s) taken between Feb. 1st 2016 and Feb. 7th 2016!
 02/06/2016 03:39:09 PM · #35
Originally posted by Aliaa:
When submitting a photo for that contest one is asked to confirm that the entry was based on photograph(s) taken between Feb. 1st 2016 and Feb. 7th 2016!

I'm sure that language is based on a page template which wasn't customized for this challenge -- just make sure that's the only rule you're breaking ... :-)
 02/06/2016 03:49:10 PM · #36
Originally posted by GeneralE:
Originally posted by Aliaa:
When submitting a photo for that contest one is asked to confirm that the entry was based on photograph(s) taken between Feb. 1st 2016 and Feb. 7th 2016!

I'm sure that language is based on a page template which wasn't customized for this challenge -- just make sure that's the only rule you're breaking ... :-)


In the text it also says, "I have followed the Advanced Editing rule set, taking into account any extra rules listed above." The "extra rules" would be the ones that allow you to click on this and not be walking into a DQ.
 02/07/2016 01:06:49 PM · #37
Do not confuse "May" with "Must", and site counsel might consider changing in the rules "You May Not" to "You Must Not" in the future. Just my thoughts FWTW.
 02/07/2016 01:14:40 PM · #38
I am curious as to how the voting is going to go.

1 - People vote on the photo as they would in say a free study
2 - People vote higher/lower if they can tell what rule you broke
3 - People vote higher/lower if they cannot tell what rule you broke

I wonder because I personally vote lower if the photo "to me" does not meet the challenge and how well it meets the challenge plays into my vote. I have given some absolutely amazing photographs that in a free study would have gotten a 9 or 10 from me a 1 or 2 because to me they just did not meet the challenge. I am going to try and vote as if I was voting on a free study. Not sure how noticing the rule broken or not able to tell is going to effect my vote. For that, I will have to wait until I see all the entries to make a decision on.

02/07/2016 01:47:04 PM · #39
Given that the "hidden gem" angle exists it's possible to break a rule without actually showing anything within the edit, so unless you want to punish someone for breaking that particular rule I would assume that voting should be similar to that of a FS. BTW, voting rules state, "You may not give an entry a lower score because you believe it violates the Challenge Rules." ;)

As for "May" vs. "Must", I agree that there's a difference in the affirmative, but in terms of "May Not" and "Must Not" there's no difference as breaking either would lead to a DQ.
 02/07/2016 01:51:02 PM · #40
Originally posted by Kobba:
I am curious as to how the voting is going to go.

1 - People vote on the photo as they would in say a free study
2 - People vote higher/lower if they can tell what rule you broke
3 - People vote higher/lower if they cannot tell what rule you broke

I wonder because I personally vote lower if the photo "to me" does not meet the challenge and how well it meets the challenge plays into my vote. I have given some absolutely amazing photographs that in a free study would have gotten a 9 or 10 from me a 1 or 2 because to me they just did not meet the challenge. I am going to try and vote as if I was voting on a free study. Not sure how noticing the rule broken or not able to tell is going to effect my vote. For that, I will have to wait until I see all the entries to make a decision on.


You might have more fun voting if you could assume that we all gave it our best effort to do the challenge set forth, & just vote on the final result. After all, the masters always make it look effortless.
 02/07/2016 02:05:37 PM · #41
Originally posted by pixelpig:
Originally posted by Kobba:
I am curious as to how the voting is going to go.

1 - People vote on the photo as they would in say a free study
2 - People vote higher/lower if they can tell what rule you broke
3 - People vote higher/lower if they cannot tell what rule you broke

I wonder because I personally vote lower if the photo "to me" does not meet the challenge and how well it meets the challenge plays into my vote. I have given some absolutely amazing photographs that in a free study would have gotten a 9 or 10 from me a 1 or 2 because to me they just did not meet the challenge. I am going to try and vote as if I was voting on a free study. Not sure how noticing the rule broken or not able to tell is going to effect my vote. For that, I will have to wait until I see all the entries to make a decision on.


You might have more fun voting if you could assume that we all gave it our best effort to do the challenge set forth, & just vote on the final result. After all, the masters always make it look effortless.


Never said I would/not have fun voting. Just not sure how I will vote on an image if the broken rule is/not obvious or how the voters in general will react. Also don't know how the participants are going about it either and personally I don't want to assign a high vote to an image that breaks the more then one challenge rule as I feel that is not in the spirit of the challenge.
 02/07/2016 02:30:21 PM · #42
Originally posted by Kobba:
Originally posted by pixelpig:
Originally posted by Kobba:
I am curious as to how the voting is going to go.

1 - People vote on the photo as they would in say a free study
2 - People vote higher/lower if they can tell what rule you broke
3 - People vote higher/lower if they cannot tell what rule you broke

I wonder because I personally vote lower if the photo "to me" does not meet the challenge and how well it meets the challenge plays into my vote. I have given some absolutely amazing photographs that in a free study would have gotten a 9 or 10 from me a 1 or 2 because to me they just did not meet the challenge. I am going to try and vote as if I was voting on a free study. Not sure how noticing the rule broken or not able to tell is going to effect my vote. For that, I will have to wait until I see all the entries to make a decision on.


You might have more fun voting if you could assume that we all gave it our best effort to do the challenge set forth, & just vote on the final result. After all, the masters always make it look effortless.


Never said I would/not have fun voting. Just not sure how I will vote on an image if the broken rule is/not obvious or how the voters in general will react. Also don't know how the participants are going about it either and personally I don't want to assign a high vote to an image that breaks the more then one challenge rule as I feel that is not in the spirit of the challenge.


I can tell you how I am going to vote this challenge. I am going to assume good faith & honest intentions. I am not going to look for images that might not meet the challenge description because how do I know? My idea of what's right & correct may be way out in left field. After all, that's where I usually find myself, out in left field looking for daisies.

All humor aside, I am trying to get a feel for what it's like, not voting the image, but voting whether it meets the challenge or not. I've never done that. I've always thought we were all voting the image! How can it be that clear & easy to see whether each image met the challenge?

So, if the challenge is 'flowers' and the image to be voted on shows a flower in the foreground of a landscape, & everything is in focus, etc., is it a 2?
 02/07/2016 03:57:59 PM · #43
Originally posted by Kobba:
Originally posted by pixelpig:
Originally posted by Kobba:
I am curious as to how the voting is going to go.

1 - People vote on the photo as they would in say a free study
2 - People vote higher/lower if they can tell what rule you broke
3 - People vote higher/lower if they cannot tell what rule you broke

I wonder because I personally vote lower if the photo "to me" does not meet the challenge and how well it meets the challenge plays into my vote. I have given some absolutely amazing photographs that in a free study would have gotten a 9 or 10 from me a 1 or 2 because to me they just did not meet the challenge. I am going to try and vote as if I was voting on a free study. Not sure how noticing the rule broken or not able to tell is going to effect my vote. For that, I will have to wait until I see all the entries to make a decision on.


You might have more fun voting if you could assume that we all gave it our best effort to do the challenge set forth, & just vote on the final result. After all, the masters always make it look effortless.


Never said I would/not have fun voting. Just not sure how I will vote on an image if the broken rule is/not obvious or how the voters in general will react. Also don't know how the participants are going about it either and personally I don't want to assign a high vote to an image that breaks the more then one challenge rule as I feel that is not in the spirit of the challenge.


And as I posted above, that's specifically against the voting rules. DNMC is one thing, but if you believe an image breaks more than one rule then that would be a DQ and you can either report it or ignore it, but per the rules you cannot assign it a lesser score based on that assumption. That's well beyond "the spirit of the challenge".
 02/07/2016 04:54:52 PM · #44
The Hippie is correct. PLEASE don't base your votes on whether or not you think rules have been broken. Deciding that too MANY rules have been broken and down-voting is particularly bad. If you think that's the case, report the entry and we can ask for an original. Meanwhile, vote as if it's kosher. More problematic is the issue of whether ANY rules have been broken, since not following a challenge description is, as always, not grounds for DQ. It's really not fair to act like an enforcer and downvote things "on-suspicion-of", though, in this challenge. If someone's followed the challenge description and broken a rule so effectively you can't even tell it, well, that's a good job, isn't it now?

But the MAIN point of this challenge is for everyone to relax and have funb, it's supposed to be light-hearted. Some will break the rules "well", some will break them in a glaringly obvious way, some will enter "legacy" images, it's all good :-)
 02/07/2016 05:29:24 PM · #45
I guess it is a good thing that I can vote how I want as long as I do not violate any of the rules for voting. All I did was pose a legitimate question that you see brought up all the time. Yes......if I think as a voter that a photograph does not meet the challenge I can and do give that image a 1. As the voter it is my right to interpret the challenge and decide if photographs meet that challenge and that is where I always start when deciding what score to give a photograph. Just like as a photographer I interpret the challenge and enter an image that to me fits that theme and hope that the voters feel the same as me. After determining if a photograph meets the challenge the next step is assigning it a score based on the impression the photograph leaves me with. I can assign scores based on technical aspects, subject, visual impression, phobia (maybe I have a deathly fear of snakes and seeing them even in photographs causes panic attacks) or a combination of everything. The only thing that matters is I treat all photographs the same and base my score on those values or aspects for all photographs in a challenge. Remember this is art and it is subjective and while I value the technical aspects of a photograph sometimes one just resonates with me.

backdoorhippie Actually per the discussion, there are several challenges that photographs from that challenge meet the dates required for this challenge........so a photo used in the Wall challenge could be used in this challenge and it would be legal with only one rule broken. The real intent (spirit if you prefer that word) of the challenge was for breaking one of the rules pertaining to the actual editing of the photograph and not entering the same photograph twice. How I treat said image and if "I feel it meets or does not meet the challenge" is up to me. Just like the color photograph in the B&W HDR challenge, I guess one could argue either way about it meeting the challenge. Or the Brass challenge......some went with actually photographing brass and others went with an approach on the color, those were decisions by the photographer and how they interpreted the challenge. As a voter (and as a photographer for my entry) I have to decide which way I interpret the challenge.

Guess a PM from SC is coming next, so I stand by and await it.

Message edited by Bear_Music - parsed username.
 02/07/2016 05:48:40 PM · #46
Originally posted by Kobba:
Originally posted by pixelpig:
Originally posted by Kobba:
I am curious as to how the voting is going to go.

1 - People vote on the photo as they would in say a free study
2 - People vote higher/lower if they can tell what rule you broke
3 - People vote higher/lower if they cannot tell what rule you broke

I wonder because I personally vote lower if the photo "to me" does not meet the challenge and how well it meets the challenge plays into my vote. I have given some absolutely amazing photographs that in a free study would have gotten a 9 or 10 from me a 1 or 2 because to me they just did not meet the challenge. I am going to try and vote as if I was voting on a free study. Not sure how noticing the rule broken or not able to tell is going to effect my vote. For that, I will have to wait until I see all the entries to make a decision on.


You might have more fun voting if you could assume that we all gave it our best effort to do the challenge set forth, & just vote on the final result. After all, the masters always make it look effortless.


Never said I would/not have fun voting. Just not sure how I will vote on an image if the broken rule is/not obvious or how the voters in general will react. Also don't know how the participants are going about it either and personally I don't want to assign a high vote to an image that breaks the more then one challenge rule as I feel that is not in the spirit of the challenge.


I don't think any or us have the ability to REALLY tell what rules or how many have been broken unless we SEE the original file, which we don't have the ability to do during voting. Guessing about it isn't fair to the person who worked hard on following the rules and entering the challenge. Hence why we should vote on each image as if it's legal. And I hope we can get this discussion over with BEFORE the voting starts:)
 02/07/2016 06:26:42 PM · #47
Originally posted by PennyStreet:
I don't think any or us have the ability to REALLY tell what rules or how many have been broken unless we SEE the original file, which we don't have the ability to do during voting. Guessing about it isn't fair to the person who worked hard on following the rules and entering the challenge. Hence why we should vote on each image as if it's legal. And I hope we can get this discussion over with BEFORE the voting starts:)


Part of this site at it's very core is taking photographs that meet a challenge theme while following the editing rules assigned to that challenge. For better or worse a photograph is suppose to meet the theme of the challenge and typically not meeting the theme is not a DQ but also typically is shown by the votes that it does receive. This is an unusual challenge in that it is more like a free study with the additional rule of breaking an editing rule. In a free study you vote on the photos based on what ever criteria that you as a voter have in regards to what you find pleasing in an image. In a normal themed challenge whether the photograph meets or does not meet the challenge does and should play into the votes the photograph receives. This challenge is unusual in you are allowed to break one rule but not tell anyone what that rule is (not like some challenges where you would put it in your title). All I did was ask how everyone was perceiving this as far as voting (yes, when I asked this my photograph was already entered) goes. Are people expecting to see the rule that was broken or are they expecting it to not be able to notice it, is all I was asking. There are ways to break a rule that is not noticeable and there are ways to do that is very noticeable, part of the challenge description is for the voters to try and guess what that rule is. One thing I said has been blown way out of proportion, that was about a photo entered in the Wall challenge and this (it would be legal in the Wall challenge and legal in this challenge if no other rules were broken). I personally feel that is a cheap way out and going back thru this discussion it is/not clear if it would be allowed.

Anyways, I am done with this discussion and going to watch the game. I will vote within the voting rules as I always do and if SC wants to check my voting pattern they are free to do so. One thing no body will do is tell me how to vote, this is art and my mind likes what it likes and hates what it hates and if I feel an image does not meet challenge and want to assign it a 1 I will and if I feel an image is the greatest thing I have ever seen with my eyes and want to give it a 10 I will. And I will use all the numbers between 1 and 10 with a majority of the images receiving a 5 as I do in every challenge I have ever voted in.

Have a good night.
 02/07/2016 07:27:18 PM · #48
If a particular rule is broken multiple times, eg. more than one element from another source/other sources introduced, is that just the one rule broken?
 02/07/2016 08:18:47 PM · #49
Originally posted by PennyStreet:
1 day and 14 hours left · 16 entries received · Enter this challenge

I will if you will:)


I did. So I hope you did too :)
 02/07/2016 08:50:28 PM · #50
Originally posted by colorcarnival:
Originally posted by PennyStreet:
1 day and 14 hours left · 16 entries received · Enter this challenge

I will if you will:)


I did. So I hope you did too :)


Ha! Yes. Finally.
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