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04/25/2013 02:07:09 PM · #426 |
Originally posted by Cory:
Of course, the police would LOVE this, since there would also be a huge impact on crime through 'incidental' discoveries of other illegal activities. |
I'm pretty sure evidence of "other crimes" discovered in the course of looking for someone/something else in a warrantless search is not admissible. I think there was a recent SCOTUS decision about this, but I can't remember the particulars.
I also think the government should be responsible for reimbursing owners for any property damage created in the course of a warrantless search. |
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04/25/2013 02:22:49 PM · #427 |
Originally posted by GeneralE:
Originally posted by Cory:
Of course, the police would LOVE this, since there would also be a huge impact on crime through 'incidental' discoveries of other illegal activities. |
I'm pretty sure evidence of "other crimes" discovered in the course of looking for someone/something else in a warrantless search is not admissible. I think there was a recent SCOTUS decision about this, but I can't remember the particulars.
I also think the government should be responsible for reimbursing owners for any property damage created in the course of a warrantless search. |
It's not admissible. That's true. Unless they just leave it alone, quietly make a few notes, and then leave.
A month later, they simply 'stumble across' cause for reasonable suspicions and have a judge issue a search warrant.
Of course that probably won't really be necessary, since once we've started to infringe upon the 4th amendment, it's not like the details of the 4th amendment will actually stand. |
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04/25/2013 05:28:43 PM · #428 |
Originally posted by Cory:
Originally posted by GeneralE:
Originally posted by Cory:
Of course, the police would LOVE this, since there would also be a huge impact on crime through 'incidental' discoveries of other illegal activities. |
I'm pretty sure evidence of "other crimes" discovered in the course of looking for someone/something else in a warrantless search is not admissible. I think there was a recent SCOTUS decision about this, but I can't remember the particulars.
I also think the government should be responsible for reimbursing owners for any property damage created in the course of a warrantless search. |
It's not admissible. That's true. Unless they just leave it alone, quietly make a few notes, and then leave.
A month later, they simply 'stumble across' cause for reasonable suspicions and have a judge issue a search warrant.
Of course that probably won't really be necessary, since once we've started to infringe upon the 4th amendment, it's not like the details of the 4th amendment will actually stand. |
so what you are saying is if you are honest, law abiding citizen this should not worry you... but if you are criminal/ illegal stuff wrongdoer than protection of your criminal behavior should be number one concern of the police? |
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04/25/2013 05:34:57 PM · #429 |
Originally posted by Basta:
so what you are saying is if you are honest, law abiding citizen this should not worry you... but if you are criminal/ illegal stuff wrongdoer than protection of your criminal behavior should be number one concern of the police? |
You do realize that almost anyone can be indicted successfully right?
Our laws are so complex, and so extensive that almost everyone is in violation of some laws.
I remember reading an article about junior prosecutors being assigned an excersize where they were given a historical figure and told to find a way to successfully indict the person. The story teller (some article, I can't find it, maybe you can?) claims that no junior prosecutor ever failed to find some charges upon which the person could be brought to trial and convicted.
Beyond that, even the invasion of privacy, and the treatment itself should be feared. |
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04/25/2013 05:39:23 PM · #430 |
| By the way, I'd like to point out that the "If you haven't done anything wrong, then you have nothing to hide" mentality is EXACTLY what the 4th amendment was designed to protect us from. Something to hide, or not, we shouldn't be subject to the invasion of privacy. |
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04/25/2013 05:40:18 PM · #431 |
you do realize , I'm not paranoid?
I'm NOT doing anything illegal ( other than sometimes doing 5-10miles over the speed limit) nor am I planing any illegal activity in the future...I see NO reason to act like there is some kind of conspiracy against me out there...
THE END
Message edited by author 2013-04-25 17:40:56. |
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04/25/2013 05:44:50 PM · #432 |
Originally posted by Basta:
you do realize , I'm not paranoid?
I'm NOT doing anything illegal ( other than sometimes doing 5-10miles over the speed limit) nor am I planing any illegal activity in the future...I see NO reason to act like there is some kind of conspiracy against me out there...
THE END |
Have you ever walked across the street without using the crosswalk...
If so, you are guilty of committing a crime
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04/25/2013 05:48:16 PM · #433 |
Originally posted by cowboy221977:
Originally posted by Basta:
you do realize , I'm not paranoid?
I'm NOT doing anything illegal ( other than sometimes doing 5-10miles over the speed limit) nor am I planing any illegal activity in the future...I see NO reason to act like there is some kind of conspiracy against me out there...
THE END |
Have you ever walked across the street without using the crosswalk...
If so, you are guilty of committing a crime |
Than write me a darn ticket... that will take a care of that problem...and if I feel like I have too much money ...I ''ll do it again |
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04/25/2013 05:52:57 PM · #434 |
LOL No need to get mad Basta...I was just emphasizing Cory's point that pretty much anyone is guilty of a crime...granted jaywalking would not result in a conviction
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04/25/2013 05:54:17 PM · #435 |
However civillian court is much more fair than military...In the military you are guilty until proven innocent....
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04/25/2013 05:55:05 PM · #436 |
Originally posted by cowboy221977:
LOL No need to get mad Basta...I was just emphasizing Cory's point that pretty much anyone is guilty of a crime...granted jaywalking would not result in a conviction |
No mad here, just saying...and internet can be a funny place...emotionless and stuff |
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04/25/2013 05:56:03 PM · #437 |
Originally posted by cowboy221977:
LOL No need to get mad Basta...I was just emphasizing Cory's point that pretty much anyone is guilty of a crime...granted jaywalking would not result in a conviction |
Actually, a buddy of mine just got hit for $250 in Vegas for it.
BTW, I LOVE how Basta tries to tell me he has nothing to hide, then admits to committing crimes (speeding).
You're right, you're not paranoid, hell, you're not even marginally cautious from what I can tell.
Then again, do you really live in Detroit? If so, I could see why you're not worried, you guys can't even afford cops anymore can you?
Message edited by author 2013-04-25 17:57:18. |
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04/25/2013 05:57:18 PM · #438 |
Originally posted by cowboy221977:
However civillian court is much more fair than military...In the military you are guilty until proven innocent.... |
in reality that is same in civilian, they just lie to you...think about it....would they arrest someone and put him in Jail till trial, because they KNOW he is innocent? |
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04/25/2013 05:59:09 PM · #439 |
Jaywalking is (typically) an infraction, punishable only by a fine, not confinement.
Not every violation of a statute is a "crime" ... |
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04/25/2013 05:59:52 PM · #440 |
They put him in jail incase he is guilty
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04/25/2013 06:00:00 PM · #441 |
Originally posted by Basta:
Originally posted by cowboy221977:
However civillian court is much more fair than military...In the military you are guilty until proven innocent.... |
in reality that is same in civilian, they just lie to you...think about it....would they arrest someone and put him in Jail till trial, because they KNOW he is innocent? |
Wait - so you understand that the system doesn't work, doesn't meet it's stated goals, is willing to ignore your rights in order to secure a conviction, and doesn't hold themselves to their own tenets (innocent until proven guilty).. But, you're just OK with that? How does that work? You just figure that your rights are worthless, and we should just accept whatever the authorities want to do? |
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04/25/2013 06:01:20 PM · #442 |
Originally posted by Cory:
Originally posted by cowboy221977:
LOL No need to get mad Basta...I was just emphasizing Cory's point that pretty much anyone is guilty of a crime...granted jaywalking would not result in a conviction |
Actually, a buddy of mine just got hit for $250 in Vegas for it.
BTW, I LOVE how Basta tries to tell me he has nothing to hide, then admits to committing crimes (speeding).
You're right, you're not paranoid, hell, you're not even marginally cautious from what I can tell.
Then again, do you really live in Detroit? If so, I could see why you're not worried, you guys can't even afford cops anymore can you? |
Speeding is a TRAFFIC VIOLATION.....not a crime you can compare with lets say murder in the first.
Detroit is not my #1 choice, but its where the home is..
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04/25/2013 06:04:41 PM · #443 |
Originally posted by Cory:
Originally posted by Basta:
Originally posted by cowboy221977:
However civillian court is much more fair than military...In the military you are guilty until proven innocent.... |
in reality that is same in civilian, they just lie to you...think about it....would they arrest someone and put him in Jail till trial, because they KNOW he is innocent? |
Wait - so you understand that the system doesn't work, doesn't meet it's stated goals, is willing to ignore your rights in order to secure a conviction, and doesn't hold themselves to their own tenets (innocent until proven guilty).. But, you're just OK with that? How does that work? You just figure that your rights are worthless, and we should just accept whatever the authorities want to do? |
While system is full of problems, and in need of total redo...most of the times when there is a smoke there is fire. Act guilty, and you will be treated as one. |
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04/25/2013 06:10:23 PM · #444 |
Originally posted by cowboy221977:
They put him in jail incase he is guilty |
If HE is innocent till proven, shouldn't they let him go? he is innocent, right? |
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04/25/2013 06:29:47 PM · #445 |
Originally posted by Basta:
Originally posted by cowboy221977:
They put him in jail incase he is guilty |
If HE is innocent till proven, shouldn't they let him go? he is innocent, right? |
The police accuse, the defendant protests, and a judge decides the relative risk of flight prior to trial -- it's called a bail hearing, and it's supposed to happen relatively quickly following arrest. |
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04/25/2013 06:42:16 PM · #446 |
Originally posted by GeneralE:
Originally posted by Basta:
Originally posted by cowboy221977:
They put him in jail incase he is guilty |
If HE is innocent till proven, shouldn't they let him go? he is innocent, right? |
The police accuse, the defendant protests, and a judge decides the relative risk of flight prior to trial -- it's called a bail hearing, and it's supposed to happen relatively quickly following arrest. |
So if the Judge at bail hearing ( even if its next day, they held innocent person in jail for 24 hours, violating his rights to be free for 24 hours) does not let accused go, Judge essentially assumed the guilt before trial?
You are smart guy, you know what I'm saying....if someone is held in jail against the will, its because there is reason to believe they are guilty....before the trial |
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04/25/2013 07:12:37 PM · #447 |
Listen to Ron Paul. Like his politics or not, he's got the right of this.
Message edited by author 2013-04-25 19:14:39. |
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04/25/2013 07:25:50 PM · #448 |
Originally posted by Cory:
Listen to Ron Paul. Like his politics or not, he's got the right of this. |
even if I disagree with some of his views, I have to admit he looks like one of very few politicians "NOT FOR SALE"
I'm not sure how listening to him have anything to do with innocent till proven guilty Boston Marathon Bomber. or your personal fear that police will find your porn collection?
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04/25/2013 07:28:20 PM · #449 |
Originally posted by Basta:
Originally posted by cowboy221977:
They put him in jail incase he is guilty |
If HE is innocent till proven, shouldn't they let him go? he is innocent, right? |
Indeed. Let him go... and let him pay his medical bill. He's only entitled to free attorney's fees. He certainly has enough of that at his side.
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04/25/2013 07:32:35 PM · #450 |
Originally posted by Cory:
Listen to Ron Paul. Like his politics or not, he's got the right of this. |
... and here is hoping that nothing of this nature ever happens where he lives and he is in dire need of some form of assistance.
Reminds me of a staunch Republican that was totally against same sex marriage until the day he found out his son was gay.
The situation in Boston was one of those "Damned if you do and Damned if you don't" scenarios for law enforcement.
I can just imagine the hue and cry that would have ensued had the authorities opted for a "business as usual" approach and another IED had exploded somewhere's else.
Nothing like Monday morning quarterbacking though and you know what they say... hindsight is always 20/20.
Ray
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