Terrorism at the Boston Marathon?

04/27/2013 11:32:33 AM · #2

Originally posted by RayEthier:

Originally posted by David Ey:

Originally posted by RayEthier:

Originally posted by Cory:

Never trade liberty for security, as you'll end up with neither. Period.

...and you could end up quite dead too... that also is an issue of consideration.

Ray

Ray, are you saying we should rely on a government...be it federal or local to provide this "security"? It sounds like you are. They will almost always be a bit too late and a bullet short. There is personal responsibility you know. Unfortunately, too many are not prepared and have the "cradle to grave" mentality. I don't want the government deciding when I am ready for the grave...which they will if I am no longer able to add to their pockets and become a liability.

Not in the least... you might want to read up on some of the discussions I had regarding Threat & Risk Analysis, Target Hardening and some other tidbits that were incorporated in this and other similar discussions. I would bet that there are a lot more people that receive assistance from publicly paid organizations than say the gun toting home owner who may or not be properly trained in its use.

Been around and done that and truth be told, most supposed real mean and tough bastards are cowering in some corner when the shit hits the fan. I don't know anything about most people that post in this forum, but chances are that there aren't too many that had to confront violence on a regular basis in civilian life.... I know I have.

Have a great day... and do be vigilant. :O)

Ray

To be fair Ray - you might have a fairly significant data bias there - since you would never have been called out if the person took care of it themselves - once the problem is taken care of, there's no reason to file a report, unless you actually had to shoot the idiot of course.

Although, I do agree with you RE: Tough SOB's-- mostly they're just scared kiddos in big ol' rough looking bodies.

Message edited by author 2013-04-27 11:33:33.

RayEthier

Canon EF-S 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 USM

04/27/2013 11:26:53 AM · #3

Originally posted by David Ey:

Originally posted by RayEthier:

Originally posted by Cory:

Never trade liberty for security, as you'll end up with neither. Period.

...and you could end up quite dead too... that also is an issue of consideration.

Ray

Ray, are you saying we should rely on a government...be it federal or local to provide this "security"? It sounds like you are. They will almost always be a bit too late and a bullet short. There is personal responsibility you know. Unfortunately, too many are not prepared and have the "cradle to grave" mentality. I don't want the government deciding when I am ready for the grave...which they will if I am no longer able to add to their pockets and become a liability.

Not in the least... you might want to read up on some of the discussions I had regarding Threat & Risk Analysis, Target Hardening and some other tidbits that were incorporated in this and other similar discussions. I would bet that there are a lot more people that receive assistance from publicly paid organizations than say the gun toting home owner who may or not be properly trained in its use.

Been around and done that and truth be told, most supposed real mean and tough bastards are cowering in some corner when the shit hits the fan. I don't know anything about most people that post in this forum, but chances are that there aren't too many that had to confront violence on a regular basis in civilian life.... I know I have.

Have a great day... and do be vigilant. :O)

Ray

Message edited by author 2013-04-27 11:29:12.

Mike

Tamron SP 24-70mm f/2.8 Di VC USD Canon Mount

04/26/2013 02:03:59 PM · #4

i think a baseball bat would work better.

04/26/2013 01:07:51 PM · #5

Originally posted by Mike:

Originally posted by blindjustice:
Perhaps the point is that the 4th amendment may prove more important, and defensible, than the 2nd. After 911 we let terror help toss out freedom with the bathwater. Waiving rights and waving flags.

The 4th is built on principles of privacy and true freedom, the 2nd arguably speaks to militias and has "well regulated" right in the damn text, yet we cant get a decent background check law passed despite 90 percent of the population being in favor.

I guess that why DHS is stockpiling ammo, so no one else can buy any :) if you cant pass the law, just makes gun ineffective by removing ammo.

Meh. Still makes good club.

Mike

Tamron SP 24-70mm f/2.8 Di VC USD Canon Mount

04/26/2013 12:39:28 PM · #6

Originally posted by blindjustice:

Perhaps the point is that the 4th amendment may prove more important, and defensible, than the 2nd. After 911 we let terror help toss out freedom with the bathwater. Waiving rights and waving flags.

The 4th is built on principles of privacy and true freedom, the 2nd arguably speaks to militias and has "well regulated" right in the damn text, yet we cant get a decent background check law passed despite 90 percent of the population being in favor.

I guess that why DHS is stockpiling ammo, so no one else can buy any :) if you cant pass the law, just makes gun ineffective by removing ammo.

Message edited by author 2013-04-26 12:40:03.

blindjustice

Canon EOS-60D

Tamron SP AF 28-75mm f/2.8 XR Di for Canon

04/25/2013 11:09:34 PM · #7

Nikon AF Micro-Nikkor 60mm f2.8D

04/25/2013 09:15:26 PM · #8

Originally posted by David Ey:

Not from his last two posts, but from years of reading his posts. Are you new here? Oh, not new but you are from Detroit i see.

cant comment on years of his post, sometimes I am new around. I usually just look at the pretty pictures...

And Yes to you too, you are not the first one bringing up Detroit, Why is that? "...not new but from Detroit"? I live here, just like you live some place else..

David Ey

Nikon D80

04/25/2013 09:04:22 PM · #9

Not from his last two posts, but from years of reading his posts. Are you new here? Oh, not new but you are from Detroit i see.

Message edited by author 2013-04-25 21:05:34.

Nikon AF Micro-Nikkor 60mm f2.8D

04/25/2013 08:55:25 PM · #10

Originally posted by David Ey:

I can't speak for Ray...but I do not see where you come up with that conclusion from his last two posts?

David Ey

Nikon D80

04/25/2013 08:39:04 PM · #11

Originally posted by RayEthier:

Originally posted by Cory:

Never trade liberty for security, as you'll end up with neither. Period.

...and you could end up quite dead too... that also is an issue of consideration.

Ray

Ray, are you saying we should rely on a government...be it federal or local to provide this "security"? It sounds like you are. They will almost always be a bit too late and a bullet short. There is personal responsibility you know. Unfortunately, too many are not prepared and have the "cradle to grave" mentality. I don't want the government deciding when I am ready for the grave...which they will if I am no longer able to add to their pockets and become a liability.

04/25/2013 07:43:42 PM · #12

Originally posted by RayEthier:

Originally posted by Cory:
Listen to Ron Paul. Like his politics or not, he's got the right of this.

... and here is hoping that nothing of this nature ever happens where he lives and he is in dire need of some form of assistance.

Reminds me of a staunch Republican that was totally against same sex marriage until the day he found out his son was gay.

The situation in Boston was one of those "Damned if you do and Damned if you don't" scenarios for law enforcement.

I can just imagine the hue and cry that would have ensued had the authorities opted for a "business as usual" approach and another IED had exploded somewhere's else.

Nothing like Monday morning quarterbacking though and you know what they say... hindsight is always 20/20.

Ray

here you go

Cory, listen to aged well (read older than you) and wiser, Ray can see what is happening all the way from Canada...
Liberty? really?
a line from an old song ....."freedom's just another word for nothing left to lose"....

RayEthier

Canon EF-S 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 USM

04/25/2013 07:37:48 PM · #13

Originally posted by Cory:

Never trade liberty for security, as you'll end up with neither. Period.

... and you could end up quite dead too... that also is an issue of consideration.

Ray

04/25/2013 07:33:52 PM · #14

Originally posted by RayEthier:

Never trade liberty for security, as you'll end up with neither. Period.

Message edited by author 2013-04-25 19:34:07.

04/25/2013 07:33:06 PM · #15

Originally posted by Basta:

Originally posted by Cory:
Listen to Ron Paul. Like his politics or not, he's got the right of this.

even if I disagree with some of his views, I have to admit he looks like one of very few politicians "NOT FOR SALE"

I'm not sure how listening to him have anything to do with innocent till proven guilty Boston Marathon Bomber. or your personal fear that police will find your porn collection?

The video I linked to was talking about the crimes that happened in Boston, not the ones on Monday, but rather the ones on Friday.

RayEthier

Canon EF-S 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 USM

04/25/2013 07:32:35 PM · #16

Originally posted by Cory:

Listen to Ron Paul. Like his politics or not, he's got the right of this.

... and here is hoping that nothing of this nature ever happens where he lives and he is in dire need of some form of assistance.

Reminds me of a staunch Republican that was totally against same sex marriage until the day he found out his son was gay.

The situation in Boston was one of those "Damned if you do and Damned if you don't" scenarios for law enforcement.

I can just imagine the hue and cry that would have ensued had the authorities opted for a "business as usual" approach and another IED had exploded somewhere's else.

Nothing like Monday morning quarterbacking though and you know what they say... hindsight is always 20/20.

Ray

Lydia

Canon EOS-6D

Canon EF 100mm f/2.8L Macro IS USM

04/25/2013 07:28:20 PM · #17

Originally posted by Basta:

Originally posted by cowboy221977:
They put him in jail incase he is guilty

If HE is innocent till proven, shouldn't they let him go? he is innocent, right?

Indeed. Let him go... and let him pay his medical bill. He's only entitled to free attorney's fees. He certainly has enough of that at his side.

04/25/2013 07:25:50 PM · #18

Originally posted by Cory:

Listen to Ron Paul. Like his politics or not, he's got the right of this.

even if I disagree with some of his views, I have to admit he looks like one of very few politicians "NOT FOR SALE"

I'm not sure how listening to him have anything to do with innocent till proven guilty Boston Marathon Bomber. or your personal fear that police will find your porn collection?

04/25/2013 07:12:37 PM · #19

Listen to Ron Paul. Like his politics or not, he's got the right of this.

Message edited by author 2013-04-25 19:14:39.

Canon 12x IS USM (S3 IS built-in Lens) -- 36-432mm (35mm EQ)

04/25/2013 06:42:16 PM · #20

Originally posted by GeneralE:

Originally posted by Basta:

Originally posted by cowboy221977:
They put him in jail incase he is guilty

If HE is innocent till proven, shouldn't they let him go? he is innocent, right?

The police accuse, the defendant protests, and a judge decides the relative risk of flight prior to trial -- it's called a bail hearing, and it's supposed to happen relatively quickly following arrest.

So if the Judge at bail hearing ( even if its next day, they held innocent person in jail for 24 hours, violating his rights to be free for 24 hours) does not let accused go, Judge essentially assumed the guilt before trial?

You are smart guy, you know what I'm saying....if someone is held in jail against the will, its because there is reason to believe they are guilty....before the trial

GeneralE

Canon PowerShot S3 IS

04/25/2013 06:29:47 PM · #21

Originally posted by Basta:

Originally posted by cowboy221977:
They put him in jail incase he is guilty

If HE is innocent till proven, shouldn't they let him go? he is innocent, right?

The police accuse, the defendant protests, and a judge decides the relative risk of flight prior to trial -- it's called a bail hearing, and it's supposed to happen relatively quickly following arrest.

04/25/2013 06:10:23 PM · #22

Originally posted by cowboy221977:

They put him in jail incase he is guilty

If HE is innocent till proven, shouldn't they let him go? he is innocent, right?

04/25/2013 06:04:41 PM · #23

Originally posted by Cory:

Originally posted by Basta:

Originally posted by cowboy221977:
However civillian court is much more fair than military...In the military you are guilty until proven innocent....

in reality that is same in civilian, they just lie to you...think about it....would they arrest someone and put him in Jail till trial, because they KNOW he is innocent?

Wait - so you understand that the system doesn't work, doesn't meet it's stated goals, is willing to ignore your rights in order to secure a conviction, and doesn't hold themselves to their own tenets (innocent until proven guilty).. But, you're just OK with that? How does that work? You just figure that your rights are worthless, and we should just accept whatever the authorities want to do?

While system is full of problems, and in need of total redo...most of the times when there is a smoke there is fire. Act guilty, and you will be treated as one.

04/25/2013 06:01:20 PM · #24

Originally posted by Cory:

Originally posted by cowboy221977:
LOL No need to get mad Basta...I was just emphasizing Cory's point that pretty much anyone is guilty of a crime...granted jaywalking would not result in a conviction

Actually, a buddy of mine just got hit for $250 in Vegas for it.

BTW, I LOVE how Basta tries to tell me he has nothing to hide, then admits to committing crimes (speeding).

You're right, you're not paranoid, hell, you're not even marginally cautious from what I can tell.

Then again, do you really live in Detroit? If so, I could see why you're not worried, you guys can't even afford cops anymore can you?

Speeding is a TRAFFIC VIOLATION.....not a crime you can compare with lets say murder in the first.

Detroit is not my #1 choice, but its where the home is..