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05/04/2012 05:06:51 PM · #26 |
| silly isn't quite the word.... - oops, the boss just caught me wiping my tears. |
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05/04/2012 05:07:02 PM · #27 |
Originally posted by Bear_Music:
Originally posted by DrAchoo:
Don't ask me how I know that. |
Would that have anything to do with Bloody Mary, perchance? :-)
R. |
say it three times, Bear |
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05/04/2012 05:17:58 PM · #28 |
Originally posted by Brent_S:
Originally posted by vawendy:
Awww... everyone's being silly! Just look at the number of truly expert "expert" editing entries in any given challenge. Just because you think the top 3 might go to the experts, do you only enter challenges in which you can ribbon?
This is a group of photographers. I would think that photographs that are done well in basic/advanced editing will be obvious and will be rewarded for their quality and technique. I'm betting there will be a fair number of advanced editing shots that make it into the top 10.
I, too, was really hoping for this challenge and desperately wanted it to be advanced editing. But I'm not going to avoid it just because it's expert. It's still a fun challenge. Why give up on a fun challenge just because Christophe may be entering? That's silly. :) |
I really don't think I am being silly Wendy. I am guessing you personally don't have a full time job and can put many hours into doing a composite image here? And even if it is cheesy and amateurish it will score very highly as compared to images done under Advanced rules (unless maybe they are B&W taken in a charming setting that is all the rage right now).
I don't have the time for even a cheesy composite image (and don't want one to end up my highest scoring image) and I don't live in a village with old world charm (though I would like to think I could still compete with this under Advanced rules).
Sure I can just concede the top spots to the digital creations and give it a go anyway (and I may), but to me that feels a little like running a foot race where I'm not taking steroids when many competitors are. Just not very appealing... |
I don't know if I'll do a composite or just advanced editing. I love doing the long exposure ghosting:
I couldn't draw a ghost if I tried. So no matter which rules I use, the ghosting will probably be just advanced editing. |
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05/04/2012 05:18:29 PM · #29 |
[...] It is a big disappointment to me to see Expert Editing [...]
[...] we'll have a cartoon ghost on the front page [...]
[...] I have complete disdain for the heavily Photoshop'ed photos [...]
[...] a bunch ghosts made with a pen [...]
[...] I have little interest in excessive sitting in front of a computer monitor [...]
[...] you personally don't have a full time job [...]
[...] even if it is cheesy and amateurish it will score very highly [...]
[...] I'm not taking steroids when many competitors are [...]
Guys, this is not a war. Can't we just do what we like, respecting (or even ignoring) others' tastes and will? Is "cartoon" bad and "realism" good? Is "software" bad and a camera "good"? Is sitting in front of a computer monitor "bad", and photographing landscapes or cities "good"? Is having a full time job (thank you) and yet willing to skip sleep time on processing "bad"? Is creating cheesy entries just for fun "bad", while austere and serious "good"? Is not caring about doing art and simply enjoying doing simple stuff "bad"? Steroids, seriously?
Again, this is no war, nor some kind of crusade for Truth. Some like to take photos in a purist way, some like to use them and play with them in various ways, that's pretty much it... nothing to have strong feelings about. What would you think if, say, I would start "voting any black and white image low because I have a complete disdain for them, regardless of their content"? Would you say it's a clever statement, that I am perfectly in my right, that this is perfectly logical since I am convinced true photography is in color, or whatever? Is it that complicated to simply avoid what you dislike, and do what you like instead, without permanently criticizing those that don't feel and see things or priorities exactly the way you are? Peace. |
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05/04/2012 05:24:32 PM · #30 |
| not a bang but a whimper, |
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05/04/2012 05:27:31 PM · #31 |
Originally posted by gyaban:
[...] It is a big disappointment to me to see Expert Editing [...]
[...] we'll have a cartoon ghost on the front page [...]
[...] I have complete disdain for the heavily Photoshop'ed photos [...]
[...] a bunch ghosts made with a pen [...]
[...] I have little interest in excessive sitting in front of a computer monitor [...]
[...] you personally don't have a full time job [...]
[...] even if it is cheesy and amateurish it will score very highly [...]
[...] I'm not taking steroids when many competitors are [...]
Guys, this is not a war. Can't we just do what we like, respecting (or even ignoring) others' tastes and will? Is "cartoon" bad and "realism" good? Is "software" bad and a camera "good"? Is sitting in front of a computer monitor "bad", and photographing landscapes or cities "good"? Is having a full time job (thank you) and yet willing to skip sleep time on processing "bad"? Is creating cheesy entries just for fun "bad", while austere and serious "good"? Is not caring about doing art and simply enjoying doing simple stuff "bad"? Steroids, seriously?
Again, this is no war, nor some kind of crusade for Truth. Some like to take photos in a purist way, some like to use them and play with them in various ways, that's pretty much it... nothing to have strong feelings about. What would you think if, say, I would start "voting any black and white image low because I have a complete disdain for them, regardless of their content"? Would you say it's a clever statement, that I am perfectly in my right, that this is perfectly logical since I am convinced true photography is in color, or whatever? Is it that complicated to simply avoid what you dislike, and do what you like instead, without permanently criticizing those that don't feel and see things or priorities exactly the way you are? Peace. |
Uh oh. Someone upset dad!!! |
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05/04/2012 05:44:30 PM · #32 |
Originally posted by gyaban:
What would you think if, say, I would start "voting any black and white image low because I have a complete disdain for them, regardless of their content"? |
It's your prerogative to vote as you see fit. This is a challenge, and in my view, the vote isn't about the technical aspect or content of the image, but where do I place it relative to the other entries within the context of the challenge. If you really think B&W photos belong near the bottom, then vote them that way (you didn't actually say this, but I'm continuing with your example). No one would be able to fault you if that was truly your opinion.
Originally posted by gyaban:
Would you say it's a clever statement, that I am perfectly in my right, that this is perfectly logical since I am convinced true photography is in color, or whatever? Is it that complicated to simply avoid what you dislike, and do what you like instead, without permanently criticizing those that don't feel and see things or priorities exactly the way you are? Peace. |
You can say whatever you like.
Since I don't shy away from the fire, here I go. I guess my problem is I don't see many of your final products as photography. Sure, they are composed of pictures, but the manipulation and processing after the capture(s) isn't what I perceive as photography. As a paying member to the site, I should have the right to voice my dislike for challenges which promote this style, just like many members attempt to thwart minimal for the converse reasons of expert. Doing a cursory look, this site has infinitely more expert challenge than minimal. Even basic loses in a straight up foot race. That's my problem.
CS
Message edited by author 2012-05-04 17:47:39. |
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05/04/2012 06:01:29 PM · #33 |
Originally posted by cosmicassassin:
No one would be able to fault you if that was truly your opinion. |
An opinion about an image? Probably. An opinion in general? No way. History, or even newspapers are full of faulty, intolerable opinions. But that's another topic.
Originally posted by cosmicassassin:
the manipulation and processing after the capture(s) isn't what I perceive as photography. |
Yes, I kinda got that. I disagree. Then what? I don't mind at all if you prefer something else, I'm not promoting my tastes: I love when people like my work, but I have no problem with those that don't. As for DPC offering more "expert editing" challenges than "minimal editing" ones, I can't do much about it, it's not my website. I just enter when I am happy to, and ignore the rest. Live and let live. |
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05/04/2012 06:11:05 PM · #34 |
Originally posted by gyaban:
Live and let live. |
Amen. |
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05/04/2012 06:14:09 PM · #35 |
| I would have liked to see this as Advanced but as I think about it I am happy to see it as expert. Sure it may push you (in a different way) to capture a ghostly image in advanced but I think we would end up with a ton of long exposures. As is I think we will see many long exposures but now the door has been opened for even more options. I look forward to this and I hope many will enter with varying editing. |
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05/04/2012 06:53:26 PM · #36 |
I have to say I think it is very sad that this whole frequency of Expert rules challenges is causing discord in the DPC community yet again. Obviously it is a hot button issue and it really pains me personally it has found me maybe at odds yet again with some whom I consider friends here.
I really think things boiled over and settled a couple of months ago, and then almost as though to toy with us the frequency of Expert Challenges has increased yet again- and now this. People not enamored with Expert rules (or tired of seeing all the turmoil debate about them causes in the community) have already left DPC I would venture to say, and there are more of us close to joining their ranks.
And it's sadly ironic that the whole cast of Expert editing fans here at DPC may change very soon. I just this morning decided to visit this Deviant Art website I have heard so much about. After digging in a page or two I found some work by digital artists there that frankly blows away the stuff we usually see here at DPC. Granted the artists there don't have a one week constraint to finish their entries as people do here, but their work is exceptional.
It seems just a matter of time before the Diviant Artists get the word that there are more ribbons being offered for digital creations at DPC these days. And if those guys come over here, those that are known for their digital creation skills here now are either going to have to pick their game up a notch (maybe they can) or get used to being on page two in Expert challenges and wishing for the good old days when there were a couple of Expert challenges a month and less incentive for the Deviants to take over.
Message edited by author 2012-05-04 18:55:10. |
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05/04/2012 07:03:36 PM · #37 |
Originally posted by Brent_S:
... artists there that frankly blows away the stuff we usually see here at DPC. ...
And if those guys come over here, those that are known for their digital creation skills here now are either going to have to pick their game up a notch (maybe they can) or get used to being on page two in Expert challenges and wishing for the good old days when there were a couple of Expert challenges a month and less incentive for the Deviants to take over. |
Yes indeed, we are all beginners when compared to some of these persons. It would be absolutely fantastic if some would come here, learning from such skilled artists would be a blast. |
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05/04/2012 07:10:00 PM · #38 |
Originally posted by gyaban:
Originally posted by Brent_S:
... artists there that frankly blows away the stuff we usually see here at DPC. ...
And if those guys come over here, those that are known for their digital creation skills here now are either going to have to pick their game up a notch (maybe they can) or get used to being on page two in Expert challenges and wishing for the good old days when there were a couple of Expert challenges a month and less incentive for the Deviants to take over. |
Yes indeed, we are all beginners when compared to some of these persons. It would be absolutely fantastic if some would come here, learning from such skilled artists would be a blast. |
I would be a beginner against those guys, you would be at least an advanced intermediate Christophe ;) |
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05/04/2012 07:36:47 PM · #39 |
These threads are always interesting to read and to further understand the viewpoints of our community.
I rather wish it wasn't necessary to use a member's work for an example of what's 'good' or 'bad' about
a technique or Challenge category.
I'd also add that we have seven days to create an entry for all challenges, excepting speed challenges.
It's up to each of us how we wish to spend our time.
For example: It could take up to seven days even for a Minimal Rules entry, in just setting up the scene.
It is interesting to see the different opinions expressed.
Looks like there's room for all of us in this little community of DPC.
Oh yes. My opinion (of course I have one): I like all the Challenge Rules categories. |
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05/04/2012 07:42:59 PM · #40 |
Originally posted by sfalice:
Oh yes. My opinion (of course I have one): I like all the Challenge Rules categories. |
You're such a diplomat, Alice. :-) I myself am biting my tongue. |
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05/04/2012 08:12:31 PM · #41 |
Originally posted by Art Roflmao:
Originally posted by sfalice:
Oh yes. My opinion (of course I have one): I like all the Challenge Rules categories. |
You're such a diplomat, Alice. :-) I myself am biting my tongue. |
OMG - I hope it didn't take you seven days to set that up!
:) |
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05/04/2012 08:15:31 PM · #42 |
Originally posted by gyaban:
Guys, this is not a war. Can't we just do what we like, respecting (or even ignoring) others' tastes and will? Is "cartoon" bad and "realism" good? Is "software" bad and a camera "good"? Is sitting in front of a computer monitor "bad", and photographing landscapes or cities "good"? Is having a full time job (thank you) and yet willing to skip sleep time on processing "bad"? Is creating cheesy entries just for fun "bad", while austere and serious "good"? Is not caring about doing art and simply enjoying doing simple stuff "bad"? Steroids, seriously?
Again, this is no war, nor some kind of crusade for Truth. Some like to take photos in a purist way, some like to use them and play with them in various ways, that's pretty much it... nothing to have strong feelings about. What would you think if, say, I would start "voting any black and white image low because I have a complete disdain for them, regardless of their content"? Would you say it's a clever statement, that I am perfectly in my right, that this is perfectly logical since I am convinced true photography is in color, or whatever? Is it that complicated to simply avoid what you dislike, and do what you like instead, without permanently criticizing those that don't feel and see things or priorities exactly the way you are? Peace. |
I have already determined that I will not be entering this challenge. It's not something that I want to spend my time doing, yet I look forward to seeing what everyone else comes up with.
It's not at all like me to miss a challenge... I've skipped VERY few during my time here.
I'm just not interested. And... that's okay.
One doesn't have to be interested in every challenge. Pick the challenges YOU like... according to YOUR interests in photography and manipulation, folks.
Christophe isn't harming anyone with his digital photography creations. They are magnificent and always top notch, whether you agree with the editing rule set or not.
The rule set exists. He stays inside the rules or he wouldn't get validated. Our SC stays on the game.
Don't point at him for doing anything wrong. He's inside the rules.
Enter what you like.
Don't enter what you don't like.
Am I an "excessive editing" kinda gal?
Nope. Not at all. But, "them's the rules, folks!" :D
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05/04/2012 08:18:38 PM · #43 |
Originally posted by Brent_S:
I really think things boiled over and settled a couple of months ago, and then almost as though to toy with us the frequency of Expert Challenges has increased yet again- and now this. People not enamored with Expert rules (or tired of seeing all the turmoil debate about them causes in the community) have already left DPC I would venture to say, and there are more of us close to joining their ranks.
And it's sadly ironic that the whole cast of Expert editing fans here at DPC may change very soon. I just this morning decided to visit this Deviant Art website I have heard so much about. After digging in a page or two I found some work by digital artists there that frankly blows away the stuff we usually see here at DPC. Granted the artists there don't have a one week constraint to finish their entries as people do here, but their work is exceptional.
It seems just a matter of time before the Diviant Artists get the word that there are more ribbons being offered for digital creations at DPC these days. And if those guys come over here, those that are known for their digital creation skills here now are either going to have to pick their game up a notch (maybe they can) or get used to being on page two in Expert challenges and wishing for the good old days when there were a couple of Expert challenges a month and less incentive for the Deviants to take over. |
Brent, some DA people already have come over here.
I say that from experience as that several years ago many Deviants (myself included) were looking for another 'home' due to a 'sudden' takeover on the site from the originator (it got very nasty). Some stayed and others drifted away. And yes, there are quite a few artists on DA that would do extremely well on the Expert Editing challenges here - but the thing is a good portion of those artists take more than a week to perfect their creations (at least the ones I am familiar with and it has been a while). I don't think we will see a mad dash rush of DA over here...unless there is a fall-out on the site.
And yes, I have noticed that DPChallenge has integrated the Expert Editing into the line-up. Notice that every Thursday rollover challenge for at least a month has been Expert Editing. I believe it is here to stay and for those who don't care for it there is the choice of not bothering with the Thursday challenges.
And for anyone who says that an Advanced Editing or Basic Editing cannot win the Blue in an Expert Editing. I give you the Never Before Seen on DPC Challenge that took the Blue
If you have a well rounded and well executed idea it CAN go far.
Message edited by author 2012-05-04 20:20:43. |
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05/04/2012 08:19:37 PM · #44 |
Like many others, I read threads like this & am not usually inspired to post anything. There is no way to counter the rabble-rousing rhetoric of the fundamentalist photographers without giving them another opportunity to post more of it.
The Expert challenges provide me with the most variety, as a voter--and the most opportunity, as a member. I am still learning from the people here. So, I am content.
+1  sfalice |
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05/04/2012 08:28:06 PM · #45 |
I believe photography is an art form and therefore surely allows those practicing the craft to be creative but here more than anywhere I've displayed pictures there's a handful of people that want to try and force their opinions on others. There's the DNMC crowd, there's the super low voters, there's the forum "stirrers" there's the people who love to leave comments on the top scoring photos with their disdain at a photos placement etc, etc.
I had hoped this place had changed a little in my absence but obviously not, why on earth people can't just pick a challenge to enter based on whether it suits their taste / style / desire - challenge topic, editing rule set, time frame are all part of any given challenge.
There are many paying members on the site, many think (and are very vocal of the fact) the site needs to change and move on yet how are the SC and Langdon supposed to do that when every time some one suggests something (for example: my idea for a monthly expert editing challenge that might have even avoided more debates like this one - as weekly challenges using the rule set would probably have been far fewer) there's a whole bunch of people jumping in to derail the idea stating they don't like expert editing and demanding more minimal editing.
I guess one answer would be to have each challenge run with all the rule sets available separately with the same topic, members enter the challenge based on the editing techniques they've used. But I honestly believe this would be bad for the site because it will fragment it even more.
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05/04/2012 08:43:09 PM · #46 |
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05/04/2012 08:43:55 PM · #47 |
Originally posted by pixelpig:
fundamentalist photographers |
heh
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05/04/2012 09:38:39 PM · #48 |
| Perhaps people should just vote on the resulting image and not how well they used or didn't use the limitations or freedoms of the ruleset in question. |
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05/04/2012 10:06:40 PM · #49 |
Originally posted by klkitchens:
Perhaps people should just vote on the resulting image and not how well they used or didn't use the limitations or freedoms of the ruleset in question. |
Fair point, and also when voting don't forget these words from the Expert Editing rules page directly:
"Please remember, however, that this is a photography contest. You are encouraged to keep your entries photographic in nature, and voters are encouraged to rate entries accordingly." |
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05/04/2012 10:35:35 PM · #50 |
LALALALALALA...*hands over ears* Are they done fighting yet? No? OK...LALALALALALALALALAAAA...
Seriously though, I am very glad that my workplace is extremely haunted. Inexplicable incidents too numerous to relate have taken place since I've been there and my employer has printed photos of phenonemon that cannot be explained. She also has a sense of humour, I'm sure she'll let me have access to certain areas to go shoot during my days off.
And fwiw...I plan to do as much with photos as I can and as little pp as I can. Provided I get my damn camera back from Nikon. *sigh*...
Message edited by author 2012-05-04 22:43:11. |
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