Guns don't kill people - DPChallenge Forums

Pentax DA L 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 AL

02/23/2012 02:17:50 PM · #176

Originally posted by bhuge:

Originally posted by Spork99:

Tasers are illegal. There's also a reason the cops still carry firearms along with tasers.

Tasers are legal in almost every state (43 of 50). A blanket statement saying they are illegal is a little misleading. I would also argue that they can be more effective than a gun. If you shoot an assailant there is a decent chance he will shoot back. Tasers are so debilitating that they couldn't shoot back if they wanted to.

They can be debilitating. IF you hit the target (remember, you only get one chance) and IF they aren't wearing something too thick for the darts to penetrate, like a heavy winter coat and IF they are susceptible to the efects of the taser. There have been plenty of cases where a guy gets tased 2 or 3 or more times and it has little effect.

Your assertion that a taser would prevent an assailant from firing back while being shot would not is laughable.

mgsmith53

Pentax K-R

02/23/2012 02:20:30 PM · #177

Edit to remove. Thought better of the comment...

Message edited by author 2012-02-23 14:21:45.

02/23/2012 02:21:49 PM · #178

Originally posted by bhuge:

I guess I still just don't see the need for such drastic measures of self defense. This coming from someone living in the US, with a wife and two small kids.

Petit Case

Message edited by author 2012-02-23 14:22:15.

02/23/2012 02:22:07 PM · #179

Originally posted by Spork99:

Originally posted by bhuge:

Originally posted by Spork99:

Tasers are illegal. There's also a reason the cops still carry firearms along with tasers.

Tasers are legal in almost every state (43 of 50). A blanket statement saying they are illegal is a little misleading. I would also argue that they can be more effective than a gun. If you shoot an assailant there is a decent chance he will shoot back. Tasers are so debilitating that they couldn't shoot back if they wanted to.

They can be debilitating. IF you hit the target (remember, you only get one chance) and IF they aren't wearing something too thick for the darts to penetrate, like a heavy winter coat and IF they are susceptible to the efects of the taser. There have been plenty of cases where a guy gets tased 2 or 3 or more times and it has little effect.

Your assertion that a taser would prevent an assailant from firing back while being shot would not is laughable.

Sure, in both cases there is a decent chance that they will be able to shoot back. Which just cements my argument further. I prefer to live in a world where if they are shooting back at all it's with something that wont kill me or my loved ones.

02/23/2012 02:24:02 PM · #180

Originally posted by bhuge:

Originally posted by Spork99:

Originally posted by bhuge:

Originally posted by Spork99:

Tasers are illegal. There's also a reason the cops still carry firearms along with tasers.

Tasers are legal in almost every state (43 of 50). A blanket statement saying they are illegal is a little misleading. I would also argue that they can be more effective than a gun. If you shoot an assailant there is a decent chance he will shoot back. Tasers are so debilitating that they couldn't shoot back if they wanted to.

They can be debilitating. IF you hit the target (remember, you only get one chance) and IF they aren't wearing something too thick for the darts to penetrate, like a heavy winter coat and IF they are susceptible to the efects of the taser. There have been plenty of cases where a guy gets tased 2 or 3 or more times and it has little effect.

Your assertion that a taser would prevent an assailant from firing back while being shot would not is laughable.

Sure, in both cases there is a decent chance that they will be able to shoot back. Which just cements my argument further. I prefer to live in a world where if they are shooting back at all it's with something that wont kill me or my loved ones.

What on earth do you mean? You think they'll have a water pistol?

02/23/2012 02:29:01 PM · #181

Originally posted by Spork99:

Originally posted by bhuge:
I guess I still just don't see the need for such drastic measures of self defense. This coming from someone living in the US, with a wife and two small kids.

Petit Case

I'm not saying this stuff doesn't happen, but it is so astronomically rare that the number of gun related accidental deaths dwarfs these tragic events. We are trading one rare tragedy for more common tragedy.

02/23/2012 02:30:48 PM · #182

From Forbes

02/23/2012 02:31:25 PM · #183

Originally posted by Spork99:

Originally posted by bhuge:

Sure, in both cases there is a decent chance that they will be able to shoot back. Which just cements my argument further. I prefer to live in a world where if they are shooting back at all it's with something that wont kill me or my loved ones.

What on earth do you mean? You think they'll have a water pistol?

This goes back to my argument that if guns were illegal most criminals would not have them. Supporting evidence is in every country where guns are illegal. The few cases where guns are used by criminals in these countries is mostly isolated to organized crime that is well outside of the scope of this conversation.

02/23/2012 02:34:34 PM · #184

Originally posted by bhuge:

Originally posted by Spork99:

Originally posted by bhuge:
I guess I still just don't see the need for such drastic measures of self defense. This coming from someone living in the US, with a wife and two small kids.

Petit Case

I'm not saying this stuff doesn't happen, but it is so astronomically rare that the number of gun related accidental deaths dwarfs these tragic events. We are trading one rare tragedy for more common tragedy.

It's an extreme example, but not as rare as you might think. So are natural disasters, but you have insurance, right?

I've already had personal experience with home invasion by armed intruders. I do not relish the thought of another one with no means of defense.

02/23/2012 02:35:18 PM · #185

Originally posted by Spork99:

From Forbes

We can spend all day quoting back and forth links to biased news articles for both sides of the debate, but that's not going to get us anywhere.

Then again I don't think either of us are going to convince the other to switch their views, so maybe we just like to argue :)

Canon EF-S 18-135mm f/3.5-5.6 IS STM

02/23/2012 02:36:10 PM · #186

Originally posted by bhuge:

Originally posted by Spork99:

Originally posted by bhuge:

Sure, in both cases there is a decent chance that they will be able to shoot back. Which just cements my argument further. I prefer to live in a world where if they are shooting back at all it's with something that wont kill me or my loved ones.

What on earth do you mean? You think they'll have a water pistol?

This goes back to my argument that if guns were illegal most criminals would not have them.

That's the most ridiculous thing I've heard yet. If guns were illegal, only criminals would have them.

Denielle

Canon EOS-7D Mark II

02/23/2012 02:37:56 PM · #187

Originally posted by Spork99:

Originally posted by bhuge:

Originally posted by Spork99:

Originally posted by bhuge:

Sure, in both cases there is a decent chance that they will be able to shoot back. Which just cements my argument further. I prefer to live in a world where if they are shooting back at all it's with something that wont kill me or my loved ones.

What on earth do you mean? You think they'll have a water pistol?

This goes back to my argument that if guns were illegal most criminals would not have them.

That's the most ridiculous thing I've heard yet. If guns were illegal, only criminals would have them.

EXACTLY!

02/23/2012 02:38:12 PM · #188

Originally posted by Spork99:

Originally posted by bhuge:

Originally posted by Spork99:

Originally posted by bhuge:
I guess I still just don't see the need for such drastic measures of self defense. This coming from someone living in the US, with a wife and two small kids.

Petit Case

I'm not saying this stuff doesn't happen, but it is so astronomically rare that the number of gun related accidental deaths dwarfs these tragic events. We are trading one rare tragedy for more common tragedy.

It's an extreme example, but not as rare as you might think. So are natural disasters, but you have insurance, right?

I've already had personal experience with home invasion by armed intruders. I do not relish the thought of another one with no means of defense.

True but the presence of insurance doesn't usually case accidental deaths :)

02/23/2012 02:38:15 PM · #189

Originally posted by bhuge:

Originally posted by Spork99:
From Forbes

We can spend all day quoting back and forth links to biased news articles for both sides of the debate, but that's not going to get us anywhere.

Then again I don't think either of us are going to convince the other to switch their views, so maybe we just like to argue :)

You don't have to exercise your rights, deciding not to is part of it being a right, not a mandate.

Canon EF-S 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6

02/23/2012 02:42:00 PM · #190

Originally posted by bhuge:

Originally posted by Spork99:

Originally posted by bhuge:

Originally posted by Spork99:

Originally posted by bhuge:
I guess I still just don't see the need for such drastic measures of self defense. This coming from someone living in the US, with a wife and two small kids.

Petit Case

I'm not saying this stuff doesn't happen, but it is so astronomically rare that the number of gun related accidental deaths dwarfs these tragic events. We are trading one rare tragedy for more common tragedy.

It's an extreme example, but not as rare as you might think. So are natural disasters, but you have insurance, right?

I've already had personal experience with home invasion by armed intruders. I do not relish the thought of another one with no means of defense.

True but the presence of insurance doesn't usually case accidental deaths :)

It's the same risk/benefit analysis.

MinsoPhoto

Canon EOS-7D

Canon EF 50mm f/1.4 USM

02/23/2012 03:03:14 PM · #191

It IS illegal for a felon to have a gun in the US. They still have them. If the government is not competent enough to keep guns away from those who cannot legally have them i'll be damned if they are going to take my legally obtained firearm from me. I do think law abiding citizens should be required to take a basic gun safety course as a prerequisite to obtaining a firearm and parents who allow a child to get a hold of their weapon due to failure to properly secure it should face a hefty punishment and loss of their firearms. but I would rather keep the gun laws exactly as they are and tighten up on the requirements to get a driving license. Stupidity in driving causes far more deaths than any firearm.

o2bskating

Canon EOS-350D Rebel XT

02/23/2012 03:23:02 PM · #192

Originally posted by MinsoPhoto:

now that i agree with 100% as well as they need to make it a felony to be using your cellphone while driving!

Nikon AF-S Nikkor 70-200mm f/2.8G ED VR II

02/23/2012 04:26:37 PM · #193

Originally posted by MinsoPhoto:

I'd like to see stiffer penalties for using a gun to commit a crime.

IAmEliKatz

Nikon D5

02/23/2012 04:33:54 PM · #194

What's the difference between a gun vs a knife? Both can harm and kill..

Message edited by author 2012-02-23 16:34:33.

sinistral_leo

Nikon D5100

Nikon AF-S DX NIKKOR 18-200mm f/3.5-5.6G ED VR II

02/23/2012 04:35:15 PM · #195

Originally posted by bhuge:

Originally posted by Spork99:

Originally posted by jagar:

Originally posted by mike_311:

I agree you dont need fully automatic weapons, something that fires a few shots is plenty.

the whole thing with guns over say a baseball bat or mace is, you dont need to get close. it allows you to defend your property at a safe distance.

LOL, you do realize how that sounds don't you, its a joke right?

A gun is an equalizer. It doesn't depend on great physical strength to be effective. With a gun, a 90 lb woman can defend herself against a 200lb assailant. Give the woman a knife or other weapon and you've tilted the playing field greatly in favor of the assailant.

Mace and tasers are fairly light. I think a 90 lb woman can handle them. It also doesn't take great physical strength to swing a bat (or golf club) and have very effective results. A knife takes actual still to effectively use, but if it's a knife vs. a taser, my money is on the taser.

Boy, you guys are bored...

As a someone who uses weapons everyday in his profession. I can say that most gun confrontations occur within 9' of the other. Having said that, even though I own quite a few weapons, when I am out with my daughter and even in the door pocket of my car, I only carry oleoresin capsicum (pepper spray). I am all about protecting myself and my family, but I am not going to go to prison for some douchebag who is threatening. The justice system is so screwy most go to jail even if they were totally in the right, just because they shot somebody.

In the heat of an argument, and I know the pistol is on my side and the guy is strangling me but has no weapon, even though I know my life is in danger, if I shoot him, I can saw goodbye to my freedom. So, instead, I feel much more confident, immobilizing him with eye wrenching pain in a bottle.

I carry it in my car for the daily road rage I incite...

Message edited by author 2012-02-23 16:36:01.

IAmEliKatz

Nikon D5

Nikon AF-S Nikkor 70-200mm f/2.8G ED VR II

02/23/2012 04:52:23 PM · #196

I used to carry a baton, but it kinda got bent out of shape.

02/23/2012 05:33:25 PM · #197

Originally posted by sinistral_leo:

Originally posted by bhuge:

Originally posted by Spork99:

Originally posted by jagar:

Originally posted by mike_311:

I agree you dont need fully automatic weapons, something that fires a few shots is plenty.

the whole thing with guns over say a baseball bat or mace is, you dont need to get close. it allows you to defend your property at a safe distance.

LOL, you do realize how that sounds don't you, its a joke right?

A gun is an equalizer. It doesn't depend on great physical strength to be effective. With a gun, a 90 lb woman can defend herself against a 200lb assailant. Give the woman a knife or other weapon and you've tilted the playing field greatly in favor of the assailant.

Mace and tasers are fairly light. I think a 90 lb woman can handle them. It also doesn't take great physical strength to swing a bat (or golf club) and have very effective results. A knife takes actual still to effectively use, but if it's a knife vs. a taser, my money is on the taser.

Boy, you guys are bored...

As a someone who uses weapons everyday in his profession. I can say that most gun confrontations occur within 9' of the other. Having said that, even though I own quite a few weapons, when I am out with my daughter and even in the door pocket of my car, I only carry oleoresin capsicum (pepper spray). I am all about protecting myself and my family, but I am not going to go to prison for some douchebag who is threatening. The justice system is so screwy most go to jail even if they were totally in the right, just because they shot somebody.

In the heat of an argument, and I know the pistol is on my side and the guy is strangling me but has no weapon, even though I know my life is in danger, if I shoot him, I can saw goodbye to my freedom. So, instead, I feel much more confident, immobilizing him with eye wrenching pain in a bottle.

I carry it in my car for the daily road rage I incite...

No one has mentioned it yet, but carrying a concealed pistol is a PITA. It's heavy, it makes your pants fit funny, it's uncomfortable when you sit, awkward in a car, you're always worrying about your pants falling down or people seeing it and freaking out.

Whether someone goes to jail after shooting someone in self defense is going to depend on a lot things, but they will probably be detained and certainly questioned.

Canon EF-S 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 USM

02/23/2012 05:37:26 PM · #198

Originally posted by Spork99:

You should try walking around with a concealed golf club. Now that is a PITA! :)

RayEthier

Canon EOS-5D Mark II

02/23/2012 05:39:59 PM · #199

Originally posted by ambaker:

...As a product of US education, I believe that law abiding citizens have the right to own leagal weapons, if they so chose. If they do not exercise that right responsibly, then it is subject to forefit.

...Considering that alcohol is legal, why even mention drunk driving. The two issues are parallel in that it is the illegal actions related to each scenario that we should be concerned with and not the product itself.

Ray