| Author | Thread |
|
|
02/23/2012 09:55:21 AM · #76 |
Originally posted by Spork99:
Originally posted by HawkinsT:
Countries with tighter gun control laws are just safer place to be; fact. |
If you really believe that, you could go to someplace like Jaurez, Mexico and take a few midnight walks around the city |
I wouldn't even cross the border in daylight.. much less night time. |
|
|
|
02/23/2012 09:56:04 AM · #77 |
 Spork99, you're eloquent on this subject.
what do you think of proficiency exams and licensing of guns,
something like the license needed to operate an automobile?
Would these help with some of those unfortunate accidents we
continue to read about?
Perhaps those who are demonstrated to be proficient would be
better able to fend off that 'criminal element' so often discussed.
would this make our citizens safer? |
|
|
|
02/23/2012 10:00:42 AM · #78 |
Originally posted by Intelli:
I'm always impressed with this forums ability to have a civilized conversation on such topics. Almost every other forum I've seen ends up in a name calling grunge match. |
But this is a topic about guns so we are really careful :) |
|
|
|
02/23/2012 10:02:15 AM · #79 |
Originally posted by Spork99:
Originally posted by jagar:
God help us all. |
The religion thread is over there-----------------> |
Sorry I thought this was it. |
|
|
|
02/23/2012 10:02:25 AM · #80 |
Originally posted by Intelli:
Originally posted by Spork99:
Originally posted by HawkinsT:
Countries with tighter gun control laws are just safer place to be; fact. |
If you really believe that, you could go to someplace like Jaurez, Mexico and take a few midnight walks around the city |
I wouldn't even cross the border in daylight.. much less night time. |
Apparently, you don't need to cross the border:
//www.elpasotimes.com/ci_20010577?source=most_viewed
|
|
|
|
02/23/2012 10:06:58 AM · #81 |
Ya.. I think I'd rather go to Iraq.
Message edited by author 2012-02-23 10:09:49. |
|
|
|
02/23/2012 10:16:20 AM · #82 |
South Africa has wonderful gun laws. Take your camera for a stroll. See for yourself how safe it is. Fact. You won't see for long.
I do not have the answer; In my experience the government made it hard to get and keep guns. Yet an AK47 is cheaper to buy on the black market than a fraudulent Unemployment Insurance card. The legal guns really is not the problem, their existence is. You have guns, 'they' want it and kill for it. If you do not have a gun you are an easy target and may get killed for it. "They" all have guns. They are the 40% unemployed and even more disadvantaged people than ever before. "They are the hungry revolutionaries that are even challenging their own government. "They" are the disillusioned youth. They are the Julius Malemas of that world who preaches killing and nationalization and land grabs and more killing of the 'settlers' You have heard this before; "One Bullet One Settler" We live with it. You have heard the president in his primitive cow skin outfit singing 'bring me my machine gun' and even Mr Mandela himself singing about killing the MABULU, the whites. YouTube is unforgiving in its representing the facts that others deny.
I just think, if nobody had a gun, nobody, then the one with the gun would stand out like a sore thumb and the eyes will be on him. Yes I know, there is no answer. |
|
|
|
02/23/2012 10:19:37 AM · #83 |
Originally posted by sfalice:
Spork99, you're eloquent on this subject.
what do you think of proficiency exams and licensing of guns,
something like the license needed to operate an automobile?
Would these help with some of those unfortunate accidents we
continue to read about?
Perhaps those who are demonstrated to be proficient would be
better able to fend off that 'criminal element' so often discussed.
would this make our citizens safer? |
In this case, I don't think licensing wouldn't help. Education would though. It's an issue of parental responsibility. We license autos and driving, yet people operate automobiles irresponsibly with often deadly result. The parents who behave irresponsibly with guns around their kids are going to be irresponsible in other areas too. What if that 9 year old had run over a friend with his parents' car? Would we be talking about outlawing cars or placing further restrictions on car ownership? Or would we be wondering why those parents didn't keep the car keys away from their kids? |
|
|
|
02/23/2012 10:23:30 AM · #84 |
All of our differing opinions probably just boil down to education, if i was born in America i would no doubt have a very different outlook on all of this, as it happens i was born in Europe and as an European i feel very secure without a Weapon.
So a question for those who do own a gun: would you feel insecure without a firearm and if so who or what do you think is to blame for that feeling ? i do find it interesting trying to see things through others eyes. |
|
|
|
02/23/2012 10:24:49 AM · #85 |
Originally posted by MargaretN:
We had these discussions before. The bottom line is that Americans have been brought up with certain ideas about freedom that the rest of the world just does not relate it. It is always weird for me to read about the "right to bear arms" notion when so many lunatics are walking around and using this right. How can you blame a mentally sick person for shooting to death 80 people? It must have been the fault of the shop that sold the guns to him! I just cannot understand nor believe this aspect of the American culture! |
early American settlers viewed the right to arms and/or the right to bear arms and/or state militias as important for one or more of these purposes:
deterring tyrannical government;
repelling invasion;
suppressing insurrection;
facilitating a natural right of self-defense;
participating in law enforcement;
enabling the people to organize a militia system.
now whether or not you your anyone outside of the US feels that those rights are warranted isn't the point. its that we have these rights, among many others, that IS important, its these rights that makes our country is what it is. Its these rights that have allowed the American people of years past to prosper and make this country as great as it is in such a short time.
People with thoughts such as yours are what scares me the most. Oh a crazy person with a gun, let just take away all guns and it wont happen anymore. Wrong, criminals will still be criminals, they just wont use guns, they'll use something else. Too many people want to take away the rights afforded to us in the interest of "safety".
We as Americans need to hold dearly to our rights becuase they have been slowly eroding away, especially post 9/11.
Message edited by author 2012-02-23 10:31:13. |
|
|
|
02/23/2012 10:32:57 AM · #86 |
Originally posted by Spork99:
Originally posted by sfalice:
Spork99, you're eloquent on this subject.
what do you think of proficiency exams and licensing of guns,
something like the license needed to operate an automobile?
Would these help with some of those unfortunate accidents we
continue to read about?
Perhaps those who are demonstrated to be proficient would be
better able to fend off that 'criminal element' so often discussed.
would this make our citizens safer? |
In this case, I don't think licensing wouldn't help. Education would though. It's an issue of parental responsibility. We license autos and driving, yet people operate automobiles irresponsibly with often deadly result. The parents who behave irresponsibly with guns around their kids are going to be irresponsible in other areas too. What if that 9 year old had run over a friend with his parents' car? Would we be talking about outlawing cars or placing further restrictions on car ownership? Or would we be wondering why those parents didn't keep the car keys away from their kids? |
Parental responsibility. Sure, I understand that. Still, we all know there are dysfunctional families,
where parental responsibility simply is not there, so in this imperfect world is there another
solution? |
|
|
|
02/23/2012 10:44:57 AM · #87 |
We could start by placing the blame on the person who committed the crime. Why do we always need to blame someone else?
|
|
|
|
02/23/2012 10:50:25 AM · #88 |
Originally posted by mike_311:
We could start by placing the blame on the person who committed the crime. Why do we always need to blame someone else? |
But there are so many loopholes, and shady people to accept the blame.
Lawyers will fight to prove that it was someone else's fault, the fault of the person that committed the crime; as will so many other people, including media.
Being said, the media is a BIG reason why so many people push the blame off to someone else. It is ALWAYS someone else's fault.
SMH
|
|
|
|
02/23/2012 10:57:28 AM · #89 |
Originally posted by dyridings:
Originally posted by mike_311:
We could start by placing the blame on the person who committed the crime. Why do we always need to blame someone else? |
But there are so many loopholes, and shady people to accept the blame.
Lawyers will fight to prove that it was someone else's fault, the fault of the person that committed the crime; as will so many other people, including media.
Being said, the media is a BIG reason why so many people push the blame off to someone else. It is ALWAYS someone else's fault.
SMH |
we need a common sense clause, badly. |
|
|
|
02/23/2012 11:02:09 AM · #90 |
| could somebody answer, would you feel insecure without a gun? is the criminality that bad and if it is why? |
|
|
|
02/23/2012 11:02:15 AM · #91 |
I'm an American who doesn't own a gun. I think, based on what I read, there are two of us. :)
If someone were to break into my home, I would let them take what they want. I have no one to defend, though, so I suppose that makes a difference. My material possessions are not worth taking a human life to me. Your mileage may vary.
Never quite understood the car-gun comparison. Cars were not designed to be weapons. Sure, they can be, but they were designed to transport people. The amount of data collected and analyzed after a crash is significant and has made cars remarkably safer over the years. How often now do you see mangled cars with the occupants standing on the side of the road talking to the cops?
But yes, a car used irresponsibly can become a weapon. A gun, on the other hand, is designed solely to be a weapon. It has no other purpose. It can be used for sport but it is still a weapon. May be better to compare to knives, which while they have multiple uses, are also weapons. |
|
|
|
02/23/2012 11:02:59 AM · #92 |
Originally posted by mike_311:
Originally posted by dyridings:
Originally posted by mike_311:
We could start by placing the blame on the person who committed the crime. Why do we always need to blame someone else? |
But there are so many loopholes, and shady people to accept the blame.
Lawyers will fight to prove that it was someone else's fault, the fault of the person that committed the crime; as will so many other people, including media.
Being said, the media is a BIG reason why so many people push the blame off to someone else. It is ALWAYS someone else's fault.
SMH |
we need a common sense clause, badly. |
I'm sure people would still find a way to weasel out. Lawyers would find loopholes. And the media would portray the "killer" as someone who was not at fault. Pity that this is what it's come to.
|
|
|
|
02/23/2012 11:04:43 AM · #93 |
Originally posted by Melethia:
I'm an American who doesn't own a gun. I think, based on what I read, there are two of us. :)
If someone were to break into my home, I would let them take what they want. I have no one to defend, though, so I suppose that makes a difference. My material possessions are not worth taking a human life to me. Your mileage may vary.
Never quite understood the car-gun comparison. Cars were not designed to be weapons. Sure, they can be, but they were designed to transport people. The amount of data collected and analyzed after a crash is significant and has made cars remarkably safer over the years. How often now do you see mangled cars with the occupants standing on the side of the road talking to the cops?
But yes, a car used irresponsibly can become a weapon. A gun, on the other hand, is designed solely to be a weapon. It has no other purpose. It can be used for sport but it is still a weapon. May be better to compare to knives, which while they have multiple uses, are also weapons. |
So you say you would let someone just take what they want. What if they wanted to kill you? What if they wanted to rape you? There are people who break in simply to cause harm to others... not just for material possessions.
Not saying it would happen, but wouldn't you feel safer if you had the option to shoot them and stop them dead in their tracks?
|
|
|
|
02/23/2012 11:10:54 AM · #94 |
Originally posted by mike_311:
early American settlers viewed the right to arms and/or the right to bear arms and/or state militias as important for one or more of these purposes:
deterring tyrannical government;
repelling invasion;
suppressing insurrection;
facilitating a natural right of self-defense;
participating in law enforcement;
enabling the people to organize a militia system.
now whether or not you your anyone outside of the US feels that those rights are warranted isn't the point. its that we have these rights, among many others, that IS important, its these rights that makes our country is what it is. Its these rights that have allowed the American people of years past to prosper and make this country as great as it is in such a short time. |
I agree that the rights granted by the US Constitution have been instrumental in shaping the country I love and a lifestyle and culture I deeply appreciate. I think rights such as the freedom of speech, religion, and press, and the right to assembly and petition the government are crucially important and should be protected at all costs. However, I strongly disagree regarding the right to bear arms. I understand the reason this right might have been necessary a couple hundred years ago, but this is a far different time. The guns in this country are not being used to deter a tyrannical government or repel an invasion. Handguns can be used in self defense, but they are much more likely to be used to commit a crime, misused in a dispute with neighbor or family, or in a tragic shooing of an innocent victim. Relatively free access to guns is currently doing far more harm than it is good. |
|
|
|
02/23/2012 11:11:06 AM · #95 |
Originally posted by Melethia:
If someone were to break into my home, I would let them take what they want. I have no one to defend, though, so I suppose that makes a difference. My material possessions are not worth taking a human life to me. |
Make me think of this:
The master Ryokan lived in a poor little hut on a mountainside. One moonlit night he came home and found a burglar looking for something to steal. But Ryokan was a hermit who owned nothing.
Poor fellow, he said to the robber. You have come a long way and found nothing. But I don't want you to leave me empty-handed. Please take my clothes. And Ryokan stripped, and handed the clothes to the robber.
Poor fellow, said naked Ryokan, going outdoors again when the inconsiderate robber had left, How I wish I could have given him this wonderful moon. |
|
|
|
02/23/2012 11:12:37 AM · #96 |
No. I would not feel "safer" if I had a gun so I could "blow them away", but as I said, that is my call and the way I feel. If they wanted to kill me, well, then my number was up, yes?
Edit to add for John that I do feel perfectly safe without a gun.
Message edited by author 2012-02-23 11:15:16. |
|
|
|
02/23/2012 11:12:54 AM · #97 |
Originally posted by Melethia:
I'm an American who doesn't own a gun. I think, based on what I read, there are two of us. :)
If someone were to break into my home, I would let them take what they want. I have no one to defend, though, so I suppose that makes a difference. My material possessions are not worth taking a human life to me. Your mileage may vary.
Never quite understood the car-gun comparison. Cars were not designed to be weapons. Sure, they can be, but they were designed to transport people. The amount of data collected and analyzed after a crash is significant and has made cars remarkably safer over the years. How often now do you see mangled cars with the occupants standing on the side of the road talking to the cops?
But yes, a car used irresponsibly can become a weapon. A gun, on the other hand, is designed solely to be a weapon. It has no other purpose. It can be used for sport but it is still a weapon. May be better to compare to knives, which while they have multiple uses, are also weapons. |
I don't care about the "stuff", I'm not going to shoot someone over "stuff". I can get new "stuff". That's why we have insurance. What I can't replace is my life or my child's life. |
|
|
|
02/23/2012 11:15:10 AM · #98 |
Originally posted by Melethia:
No. I would not feel "safer" if I had a gun so I could "blow them away", but as I said, that is my call and the way I feel. If they wanted to kill me, well, then my number was up, yes? |
But only because you chose to let someone else decide that for you. |
|
|
|
02/23/2012 11:18:40 AM · #99 |
Originally posted by Spork99:
Originally posted by Melethia:
No. I would not feel "safer" if I had a gun so I could "blow them away", but as I said, that is my call and the way I feel. If they wanted to kill me, well, then my number was up, yes? |
But only because you chose to let someone else decide that for you. |
Who is to say that God didn't intend for me to die that way? But yes, you are right, I do not consider my life to be more valuable than that of another and could not live with myself if my gun were used to kill another accidentally. The risk is just too great to me. This is solely my opinion. |
|
|
|
02/23/2012 11:20:37 AM · #100 |
Originally posted by Melethia:
I'm an American who doesn't own a gun. I think, based on what I read, there are two of us. :)
If someone were to break into my home, I would let them take what they want. I have no one to defend, though, so I suppose that makes a difference. My material possessions are not worth taking a human life to me. Your mileage may vary.
Never quite understood the car-gun comparison. Cars were not designed to be weapons. Sure, they can be, but they were designed to transport people. The amount of data collected and analyzed after a crash is significant and has made cars remarkably safer over the years. How often now do you see mangled cars with the occupants standing on the side of the road talking to the cops?
But yes, a car used irresponsibly can become a weapon. A gun, on the other hand, is designed solely to be a weapon. It has no other purpose. It can be used for sport but it is still a weapon. May be better to compare to knives, which while they have multiple uses, are also weapons. |
I must be the other one. LOL! I don't own a gun, there are none in my home, and I've never used a gun, though I have been exposed to them growing up because family members did hunt. I've also seen family members (I'm talking extended family) threaten others while drinking or angry, and it could have been quite ugly. I'd never have one around my children or grandchild. I frequently travel to one the cities named one of the most dangerous in the US (Camden, NJ) to go to events or the aquarium. I even worked in that city for 5 years when I was younger. I never felt the need to carry a gun. |
|
