No Ribbon or Pictures? - DPChallenge Forums

Canon EF 24-105mm f/4.0L IS

03/12/2004 02:34:58 PM · #26

Originally posted by jonpink:

The worldâ��s best art critics are not artists themselves...your statement is ridiculous. You don't even have to know a thing about photography to critique an image, and some of the best photographers on here can't critique very well at all.

True, those that can't, critique.

And if you enjoy it, that's great. But if you are just a critic and voting consistently low, isn't that a bit saddistic? Especally since you're not getting paid to do it.

zeuszen

Canon EOS-1Ds Mark II

03/12/2004 02:40:47 PM · #27

Originally posted by louddog:

...if you are just a critic and voting consistently low, isn't that a bit saddistic? Especally since you're not getting paid to do it.

Why should this be sadistic?
Not being paid to do something and still doing it, especially, should be worth a little.

Patella

Canon EOS-500D Rebel T1i

03/12/2004 02:56:11 PM · #28

[quote]True, those that can't, critique.[/quote]

I wish you could hear me saying the following so you could understand jut how vehemently I hate this expression:

B***S***!

The only one I hate more is, "Those who can't, teach" -- though in my mind they are one and the same. (IE someone who critiques is teaching.)

But this thread is about something different, and I don't want to hijack it, so I'm going to quietly walk away and avoid post offices for the next few hours.

Message edited by author 2004-03-12 14:56:20.

jmsetzler

Sony Alpha a6000

Sony 16-50mm f/3.5-5.6 E-mount

03/12/2004 03:05:32 PM · #29

Originally posted by louddog:

True, those that can't, critique.

I agree with Patella. Its unfortunate that you feel this way. There are LOTS of people out there who know what is visually appealing but can't get the hang of creating it themselves.

Just because someone isn't a photographer or isn't a great photographer doesn't mean their view of your photos is worthless. To be quite honest, the non photographer is the one you should listen to if you expect to sell photography.

Ecce_Signum

Canon EOS-5D Mark II

03/12/2004 03:07:27 PM · #30

Surely if 'they' consistently vote low your only worry would be did they vote on all images or just yours! I welcome votes/comments from photographers and non photographers as long as they are constructive in some way so I can learn.
1 or 2 low scores won't damage your overall score and if lots of people are voting low (regardless of the image) then we all get the same sort of result.

Who buys the most prints or commissions a photographer for a special shot? very probably somebody without a camera so it might do well to listen to them?

I'm enjoying learning and hope in a couple of years time I don't start ranting because I got a low score/comment from somebody that didn't see my genious!

03/12/2004 03:27:01 PM · #31

Originally posted by jmsetzler:

Originally posted by louddog:
True, those that can't, critique.

I agree with Patella. Its unfortunate that you feel this way. There are LOTS of people out there who know what is visually appealing but can't get the hang of creating it themselves.

Just because someone isn't a photographer or isn't a great photographer doesn't mean their view of your photos is worthless. To be quite honest, the non photographer is the one you should listen to if you expect to sell photography.

Exactly. I'll reword it a little for anyone that got confused. Those who can't create art, can critique art.

For the record, I don't agree with the Teacher version (which is why I didn't say it).

Sigma 18-125mm f/3.5-5.6 DC for Canon

03/12/2004 03:30:18 PM · #32

Originally posted by zeuszen:

Originally posted by louddog:
...if you are just a critic and voting consistently low, isn't that a bit saddistic? Especally since you're not getting paid to do it.

Why should this be sadistic?
Not being paid to do something and still doing it, especially, should be worth a little.

Sadistic = enjoying the pain of others = voting low on photos for fun

I'll also add

Masochist = enjoying your own pain = continuing to look at photos you vote low, for fun.

Kavey

Canon EOS-400D Rebel XTi

03/12/2004 03:39:44 PM · #33

I'm not an especially low voter myself.
But I find it curious that you claim to be able to know the motivation and thought processes of others, when you tell us that low voters are voting low in order to cause (and enjoy) pain in others.
Have you learnt to read minds? Maybe you've invented a special machine?
Do share, I'm sure we could all do with a tool that allows us to be so very certain that we know exactly why all others in the world behave as they do, act as they do, make the decisions that they do...
I mean, I'd pay for that, really, I would.

Sigma 18-125mm f/3.5-5.6 DC for Canon

03/12/2004 04:04:19 PM · #34

Originally posted by Kavey:

I find it curious that someone would try to tell me who I should and shouldn't respect. You're not the boss of me!

It's a dangerous assumption, but I'm assuming that people vote low for one of two reasons: they didn't like the picture (or how it fit the challenge) or they just want to lower someone's score (frequently mentioned in the forum as trolls). Also assuming the low voting critics are not trolls, for what reasons would they want to look at a lot of photos they felt were bad? More then just look at them, they want to tell the artist and everyone else that they are bad by voting and leaving comments. I suppose they could be using it as an educational tool, but if their goal is to learn, why would they not enter challenges? Don't want to show off what you learn?
Seriously, I'd love to here some of the great reasons why someone would not participate in challenges, yet vote low on a lot of photos, if not for enjoyment.

Kavey

Canon EOS-400D Rebel XTi

03/12/2004 04:09:31 PM · #35

I didnt in any way suggest to you who you should respect or not respect. What an interesting leap to make from what I did actually write.

And I wouldn't dream of being "the boss of you". Nor would I want to.

Respect who you want. Disrespect who you want.

But at least acknowledge that you don't actually KNOW anyone's motivations or reasons for anything.

Like you, I choose who to respect and who not to respect. I do it based on their behaviour.

I see no reason why anyone should have to explain their reasonings to you. As you so quaintly put it, you're not the boss of them.

I see no point to continuing this discussion since you seem intent on mixing up the issue being discussed and your own issue about low scoring voters.

JPR

Sony Alpha a55

Sony DT 11-18mm f/4.5-5.6 Aspherical ED Super Wide Angle Zoom

03/12/2004 04:17:29 PM · #36

Originally posted by louddog:

Seriously, I'd love to here some of the great reasons why someone would not participate in challenges, yet vote low on a lot of photos, if not for enjoyment.

They are photographers who don't own digital cameras who love looking at amateur photos as a way to help others while possibly learning a few things themselves?

Also, just cause someone has a low voting average doesn't mean they give everyone low scores. They just have a higher standard. I agree that someone who gives nothing but 1's and 2's is probablly a troll, but as long as they give higher scores to photos that they think are better they are doing me a favor by sharing their opinions.

I think it's funny that someone mentioned the best art critics in the world. What makes someone the best art critic? Is it that they have figured out what the majority of a certain type of people like or is it that other people feel the necessity to like whatever they say is good? The best critic is YOU. If you disagree with someone's critique you do NOT have to use it but if you are so inclined you can often take it as an opportunity to improve yourself and appeal to a wider audience.

GeneralE

Canon PowerShot S3 IS

Canon 12x IS USM (S3 IS built-in Lens) -- 36-432mm (35mm EQ)

03/12/2004 04:19:07 PM · #37

Making dangerous assumptions can be dangerous ... there's a reason that term is used -- it means a higher than usual probability that the assumption is wrong.

03/12/2004 05:11:18 PM · #38

You questioned my reasoning for lacking respect for someone. Sorry for my confusing that with you saying I'm wrong and I should respect them.

Originally posted by Kavey:

But at least acknowledge that you don't actually KNOW anyone's motivations or reasons for anything.

But I do... People do things for only a few reasons. Enjoyment, curiosity, fear, law, and maybe a few others. But that can be broken down further. People obey the law because the enjoy not being in jail. People touch the wet paint because they wanted to see if it was still wet, why? To get the enjoyment of satisfying their curiosity. People react out of fear because they won't enjoy the alternative...

Everything you do, you do it because you enjoy it or it will lead to your enjoyment. So yes, I do know people's root motivations.

I'm going to take my ball and go home too. It's Friday and I have more enjoyable things to go do.

Ecce_Signum

Canon EOS-5D Mark II