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07/13/2009 01:18:46 PM · #51 |
Originally posted by K10DGuy:
For my money, Judi's example is a classic reason why I HATE expert editing.
Each to their own, of course, but it's the kind of thing I only want to see once in a million years on here. |
And for my money, Judi's example is a classic reason why I LOVE expert editing! |
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07/13/2009 01:25:15 PM · #52 |
Nevermind... Error in quote I used.
Message edited by author 2009-07-13 13:30:18. |
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07/13/2009 01:26:08 PM · #53 |
Originally posted by glad2badad:
Originally posted by scalvert:
Psst...
To be fair, the entry in question hasn't been validated yet. |
From 2 years ago? Surely you're kidding! |
i think he means the blue in the MJ challenge. |
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07/13/2009 01:26:47 PM · #54 |
Originally posted by glad2badad:
Originally posted by scalvert:
Psst...
To be fair, the entry in question hasn't been validated yet. |
From 2 years ago? Surely you're kidding! |
"The entry in question" being the one that started this thread, not the thumbnail that is posted above the sentence. |
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07/13/2009 01:29:29 PM · #55 |
| Oh. Why'd scalvert put that one in there then? Sigh...off to edit my post. :-) |
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07/13/2009 01:31:08 PM · #56 |
well, i advocated scheduling another expert challenge without a revision in the rules because i wanted to see what was going to happen.
personally (not speaking as SC), i don't have a problem with the drawing-in of elements in this kind of challenge.
however i think that situations like this point to a big gap in the rules, where stuff that is done in the side challenges (overlays, motion blurs, TTv frames, etc.) is not allowed in advanced, but is overcome by the digital art that wins in expert editing challenges. i'd like to see "expert" be more of the kind of work done in some of the side challenges, and then have an "everything goes" rule set that allows for submissions like those mentioned here.
--
enough about me, though. putting the current situation aside, what do you guys want to see?
Message edited by author 2009-07-13 13:35:41. |
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07/13/2009 01:35:08 PM · #57 |
| btw, i renamed the thread so that people will hopefully chime in. |
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07/13/2009 01:35:18 PM · #58 |
Originally posted by muckpond:
enough about me, though. putting the current situation aside, what do you guys want to see? |
I say composites are OK, but everything must be done with photographs from the camera, no drawing. When we add elements into it its not photography anymore, its photoshop(digital art). You can combine any elements captured in camera to make your final entry but you can't add graphics(wait that is already in the rules) but specify that graphics are either pre-made, or ones we make ourselves, leave no fudge room.
Matt |
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07/13/2009 01:35:43 PM · #59 |
| I think breaking expert into 2 different rulesets is a great idea. One "everything goes" ruleset which would probably be very easy to define, and one "somewhere in between" ruleset which would probably be much harder to define. :( |
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07/13/2009 01:41:37 PM · #60 |
I was curious, so I went back and looked at the prior 7 Expert Editing challenges. Looked at what was validated (Top 5) and what was DQ'd. Surprisingly there didn't seem to be many that used add-on user generated graphics.
Free Study 2007-08
None in the Top 5 seem to be questionable or set any "precedent".
One was DQ'd
Interesting that one of the reasons mentioned for the DQ was "You may not use ANY editing tool to create new image area, objects or features (such as lens flare or motion) that didn't already exist in your original capture."
Sci-Fi Celebration
One Top 5 had some user generated stuff.
Hair
One Top 5 had some user generated stuff.
Free Study 2007-04
None in the Top 5 seem to be questionable or set any "precedent".
Fill the Frame II
One Top 5 had some user generated stuff.
Harsh Environments
None in the Top 5 seem to be questionable or set any "precedent".
Sky
One Top 5 had some user generated stuff.
edit to fix a goofed up link.
Message edited by author 2009-07-13 13:44:02. |
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07/13/2009 01:43:17 PM · #61 |
Originally posted by glad2badad:
Oh. Why'd scalvert put that one in there then? |
To spell it out:
Originally posted by glad2badad:
Robert's entry was from 2006 - and wasn't there some changes since then? |
Originally posted by scalvert:
Psst... this one was validated in 2007 and included considerable drawn-in artwork.
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Message edited by author 2009-07-13 13:43:40. |
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07/14/2009 12:26:57 AM · #62 |
11 hours later. . . . .
so, anyone else wanna add anything? (on this topic)
Message edited by author 2009-07-14 00:27:18. |
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07/14/2009 01:00:32 AM · #63 |
I thought the Challenge winner was by far the best use of the Expert Editing Rule, was what i expected out of the rule, the combination of a number of photos, the use of available tools, and that the element drawn in added to the photo, and was a great use of drawing tools. Removing the abiliity to add some drawing elements to expert editing would be a shame, as they can be used very effectively.
Judi's submission was also a very good use of the rule set, and again the type of thing i was expecting out of the Challenge.
Additional, occasional (every 3-6 months) Expert editing, where there are few limitations, I think is great. It gives us a chance to see what the experts can come up with.........
As far as I am concerned, provided the photos were taken within the time period, and provided the artwork/drawing was done by yourself (ie No clipart or use of others artwork), then I think Expert should be basically a clean slate....... |
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07/14/2009 02:07:07 AM · #64 |
Originally posted by Bear_Music:
And, as long as we're on the topic, how's THIS one from Judi gonna fare?
The birds/bats look like graphics, the castle looks like a graphic, the Michael Jackson figures would seem to fall afoul of the rule "composed only from photographs taken after the challenge is announced and before the deadline" inasmuch as the man was *dead* when the challenge was announced... :-/
R. |
Just to clear things up. This image is 19 images in total. I used a smoke machine to create the clouds...the graves are real...the bats are plastic bats, the castle is a toy castle I have used in previous challenges for props...the Michael Jacksons are all my daughter, Kita. The ground was a hill I photographed. There is no clip art or drawing in this image. It was all above board and to the rules. I started photographing at 9-30am the day after the challenge was announced and finished photographing and editing and uploaded it 10-30pm (or thereabouts). The next morning I uploaded all 19 images (about 3 hours to upload them all) before I left on holidays a few hours later. I have not been back to the office since.
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07/14/2009 02:18:33 AM · #65 |
Originally posted by Judi:
There is no clip art or drawing in this image. It was all above board and to the rules. I started photographing at 9-30am the day after the challenge was announced and finished photographing and editing and uploaded it 10-30pm (or thereabouts). The next morning I uploaded all 19 images (about 3 hours to upload them all) before I left on holidays a few hours later. I have not been back to the office since. |
the work paid off! |
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07/14/2009 08:28:14 AM · #66 |
Originally posted by kaiser_chief:
... the element drawn in added to the photo, and was a great use of drawing tools. Removing the abiliity to add some drawing elements to expert editing would be a shame, as they can be used very effectively. ... |
Yes, I'll agree it looks nice and is an interesting piece of work - however IMO allowing the use of drawing tools takes this even farther from photography and closer to the realm of digital/collage fictional artwork available at places like Worth1000.com.
Is there a place for digital creations in the real world? Yes. Does it seem like photography anymore? Not to me. |
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07/14/2009 08:46:09 AM · #67 |
I was quite interested in the outcome of this challenge, and thought it would be largely a digital art challenge anyway. I never for one second had any intention of entering, my PS skills are nowhere near good enough, and that's what this one is all about.
I think so long as they remain as infrequent as they have been, there's no harm in straying away from photography into digital art. I'm all for the anything goes approach to this one, it's great for those who want to take part, great for those who want to watch (like me) and if you don't like it, well just ignore it! |
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07/14/2009 08:50:13 AM · #68 |
Start having a graphic art challenge where people can show their talents with anything goes. But keep advanced editing as is with no graphics added. Just a suggestion. My opinion is....when you get into graphic art, you kinda get away from "photography" as I know it.It quits being a photo and becomes a piece of art.
Message edited by author 2009-07-14 08:56:17. |
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07/14/2009 09:17:00 AM · #69 |
Originally posted by Judi:
Originally posted by Bear_Music:
And, as long as we're on the topic, how's THIS one from Judi gonna fare?
The birds/bats look like graphics, the castle looks like a graphic, the Michael Jackson figures would seem to fall afoul of the rule "composed only from photographs taken after the challenge is announced and before the deadline" inasmuch as the man was *dead* when the challenge was announced... :-/
R. |
Just to clear things up. This image is 19 images in total. I used a smoke machine to create the clouds...the graves are real...the bats are plastic bats, the castle is a toy castle I have used in previous challenges for props...the Michael Jacksons are all my daughter, Kita. The ground was a hill I photographed. There is no clip art or drawing in this image. It was all above board and to the rules. I started photographing at 9-30am the day after the challenge was announced and finished photographing and editing and uploaded it 10-30pm (or thereabouts). The next morning I uploaded all 19 images (about 3 hours to upload them all) before I left on holidays a few hours later. I have not been back to the office since. |
That's great! I'm especially impressed with how much Kita resembles MJ :-) Wonderful to hear this one's perfectly kosher, and my gawd, whatta lot of work you put in! Four of my highest votes in this challenge (including this one and the blue) made top 10, which is rare...
R. |
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07/15/2009 01:08:08 AM · #70 |
For the record my image has now been validated.
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