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04/29/2009 11:22:04 AM · #2551 |
Originally posted by glad2badad:
Originally posted by Mousie:
I got married. During the unspooling of this thread, California first legalized gay marriages, then made them illegal, but haven't taken mine away.
So, I'd say, conclusively, that we are still somewhat ahead of where we were at the start. |
You may be ahead of where you were at the start of this thread, but that's certainly not conclusive - it's subjective. Conclusive for you, subjective when talking "we", or others outside your happy circle.
From my point of view, with legalization of gay marriage in some states we've taken a substantial step backwards and are sliding down a slippery slope. At least those opposed to gay marriage have a pretty face to look at now with the voice of Miss California out there. :-) |
And just what would that slippery slope be and what's at the bottom of it, in your opinion? |
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04/29/2009 11:28:50 AM · #2552 |
Originally posted by glad2badad:
From my point of view, with legalization of gay marriage in some states we've taken a substantial step backwards and are sliding down a slippery slope. At least those opposed to gay marriage have a pretty face to look at now with the voice of Miss California out there. :-) |
Just goes to show that "pretty" is as subject as one's definition of what constitutes a "slippery slope." :-) |
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04/29/2009 11:43:35 AM · #2553 |
Originally posted by glad2badad:
we've taken a substantial step backwards and are sliding down a slippery slope. |
Ah, the dread "slippery slope". It along with the camel's nose, the never give an inch or they will take a mile, ect. are the fallacies of a weak argument. It says we can skip over all the intervening steps and look where we will end up. It was the basis of the "Domino theory" that got us into Vietnam, ect.
Once slippery slopes, camels noses, dominoes, snowballs, cracked foundations and icebergs are used as metaphors, it is a sign that the speaker has failed to see a chain of logic that will lead us from one point to another, and that they need us to take a leap with them from a single point of fact to a broad swath of generalisation, which they do not have facts to support. I'm not saying that if you use these falacies in an argument you are wrong, just that you don't seem to have the facts to support your argument.
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04/29/2009 11:54:11 AM · #2554 |
Originally posted by BrennanOB:
Ah, the dread "slippery slope". It along with the camel's nose, the never give an inch or they will take a mile, ect. are the fallacies of a weak argument. It says we can skip over all the intervening steps and look where we will end up. It was the basis of the "Domino theory" that got us into Vietnam, ect.
Once slippery slopes, camels noses, dominoes, snowballs, cracked foundations and icebergs are used as metaphors, it is a sign that the speaker has failed to see a chain of logic that will lead us from one point to another, and that they need us to take a leap with them from a single point of fact to a broad swath of generalisation, which they do not have facts to support. I'm not saying that if you use these falacies in an argument you are wrong, just that you don't seem to have the facts to support your argument. |
Translation: a person on firm footing isn't as likely to worry about a slippery slope as one skating on thin ice. |
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04/29/2009 05:28:34 PM · #2555 |
Originally posted by glad2badad:
From my point of view, with legalization of gay marriage in some states we've taken a substantial step backwards and are sliding down a slippery slope. At least those opposed to gay marriage have a pretty face to look at now with the voice of Miss California out there. :-) |
Is the colour balance off in that photo, or is she really a very tall Oompa-Loompa ?
Also worth noting that she may well be easy on the eyes for many in support of gay marriage too. |
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04/29/2009 07:16:09 PM · #2556 |
I am delighted to post this link, which came to my attention in a newsletter from my wife's work at the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania's Department of Labor & Industry.
PEBTF Domestic Partner Benefits
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04/29/2009 09:05:33 PM · #2557 |
Would this occur if they could have said they were married?
Gay man says he was forced out of partner's room at OHSU
Stuff like this happens regularly. Thank goodness I have the certificate to prove my relationship!
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04/30/2009 10:06:10 AM · #2558 |
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04/30/2009 10:08:19 AM · #2559 |
That is so sad. What if something had happened in those 2 hours he wasn't allowed in? |
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04/30/2009 10:09:00 AM · #2560 |
Originally posted by escapetooz:
That is so sad. What if something had happened in those 2 hours he wasn't allowed in? |
Then he'd be suing the hospital six ways from Sunday and they wouldn't have a leg to stand on...
R. |
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05/03/2009 04:24:12 PM · #2561 |
Originally posted by Article:
The hospital has vowed to put staff members through additional training to make sure this doesn't happen again. |
At least something will come of this.
You mentioned having a certificate. That reminds me of a time the family and I drove across country. We stopped at a truckstop to stretch our legs. When it came time to leave, my son (adopted from China) didn't want to get back in the car. So here I am, a white male at a truck stop dragging a Chinese kid kicking and screaming at the top of his lungs, "DON'T PUT ME IN THE CAR!!!" and "I DON'T WANT TO GO WITH YOU!!!" and "I WANT MY MOMMY!!!"
We now carry copies of our adoption paperwork with us in the car.
Of course, this is not in the same legue league. We don't have a problem going to the hospital.
Message edited by author 2009-05-03 16:24:51. |
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05/07/2009 08:28:45 PM · #2562 |
And now for some GOOD news!
Maine Gay Marriage Legalized
Vermont's cousins to the North just made me very happy. :)
HOWEVER:
Obama To Fire His First Gay Arabic Linguist
...because keeping the homos out of the barracks is WAY more important than understanding our enemies. Of course! Pesky soldiers should not speak up against DADT on the news. That's some 'homosexual activity' right there, and grounds for dismissal.
But heck, what's one booted homo compared to the validated equal rights of umpteen thousands? All in all, it's a good week!
One in ten states, baby!
Message edited by author 2009-05-07 20:30:33. |
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05/26/2009 01:37:48 PM · #2563 |
Well, Prop 8 was just upheld by the California Supreme Court.
At least marriages already made are still legal.
Let me know what I can do to help when this, as it must, returns to the ballot box.
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05/26/2009 01:49:31 PM · #2564 |
Originally posted by sfalice:
Well, Prop 8 was just upheld by the California Supreme Court.
At least marriages already made are still legal.
Let me know what I can do to help when this, as it must, returns to the ballot box. |
To me, it's just the latest in a fine tradition of Humanity's ability to embarrass the hell out of itself. |
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05/26/2009 02:14:12 PM · #2565 |
Originally posted by sfalice:
Well, Prop 8 was just upheld by the California Supreme Court. ... |
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05/26/2009 02:14:33 PM · #2566 |
Originally posted by K10DGuy:
Originally posted by sfalice:
Well, Prop 8 was just upheld by the California Supreme Court.
At least marriages already made are still legal.
Let me know what I can do to help when this, as it must, returns to the ballot box. |
To me, it's just the latest in a fine tradition of Humanity's ability to embarrass the hell out of itself. |
If you are against Prop 8, take heart because the issue before the Supreme Court was very narrow and dealt with reforenda and the state constitution rather than speaking to Prop 8 directly. Potentially, I believe, it could be struck down on other grounds or legal challenges? |
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05/26/2009 02:18:38 PM · #2567 |
Originally posted by DrAchoo:
Originally posted by K10DGuy:
Originally posted by sfalice:
Well, Prop 8 was just upheld by the California Supreme Court.
At least marriages already made are still legal.
Let me know what I can do to help when this, as it must, returns to the ballot box. |
To me, it's just the latest in a fine tradition of Humanity's ability to embarrass the hell out of itself. |
If you are against Prop 8, take heart because the issue before the Supreme Court was very narrow and dealt with reforenda and the state constitution rather than speaking to Prop 8 directly. Potentially, I believe, it could be struck down on other grounds or legal challenges? |
Oh, it's definitely all just a matter of time, but humanity continues to embarrass itself anyway. It's like, a law of nature or something. We have to. |
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05/26/2009 02:36:32 PM · #2568 |
| The most careful readings of the decision I've heard so far suggest that the State of California will simply have to abandon using the term "marriage" to refer to the contractual relationship between couples recognized by the State, since the Court says that all such couples must be treated completely equally regardless of the gender of the persons involved. |
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05/26/2009 02:43:50 PM · #2569 |
I'm so glad that you're here to applaud my new status as a special class of second-class citizen within a larger group of second-class citizens, glad2badad. Your detail-free enthusiasm has been noted. I'll refrain from expressing some of my more pointed opinions about what you should do with yourself. I hope your children grown up to be ashamed of your choices.
Ironic, isn't it, that this decision falls right between the two wedding receptions Eric's and my parents are throwing for us to let those of our friends and family who could not travel to California to be with us at our wedding last year share in the celebration. Last Saturday, at the Vermont party, their joy was unadulterated. Next Saturday, in Chicago, I doubt the mood will be so carefree. It's too bad that Eric's extended family won't be given the same opportunity to share in the happiness so readily expressed my own, what with the pall that has now been cast over us.
Because, let me tell you, there are some times that it's nice to feel special, but this is not one of them.
I'm sick in the pit of my stomach. My palms are clammy. I feel like I've claimed something for myself that's now fundamentally unfair to those dear to us who did not have the time or opportunity to do what Eric and I have done. I feel like 50% of my state wishes I'd just disappear.
This isn't the last you'll hear of this 1/18000. This fight is far, far from over, and time is incontrovertibly on my side. Your children, as they grow wiser, will stand up for justice and betray you. And that's when I'll applaud.
Message edited by author 2009-05-28 14:32:39. |
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05/26/2009 05:45:32 PM · #2570 |
Originally posted by glad2badad:
Originally posted by sfalice:
Well, Prop 8 was just upheld by the California Supreme Court. ... |
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Oh come on now, that's not the correct response. This is a bitter pill that needs to be swallowed. You don't rejoice when others have to swallow it.
Sorry Mouse and others, I hope your love grows stronger from this experience. Don't forget, you can always pray for help; it can't hurt. |
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05/28/2009 02:48:02 PM · #2571 |
Originally posted by Nullix:
Oh come on now, that's not the correct response. This is a bitter pill that needs to be swallowed. You don't rejoice when others have to swallow it.
Sorry Mouse and others, I hope your love grows stronger from this experience. Don't forget, you can always pray for help; it can't hurt. |
Thank you for putting it this way. The tone of my own post was obviously influenced by my immediate anger and distress at the burdens so freely heaped upon my peers, and my own heightened fears.
When the majority is comfortable, even enthusiastic, about taking away our rights, what does that say about what else are they may be comfortable taking away?
glad2badad is just following the example set by his peers. They could not do as they have done without a profound lack of empathy. I sincerely wish he could look into both of my mother's eyes and see their pain. Perhaps he would learn something.
Message edited by author 2009-05-28 14:52:46. |
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06/05/2009 10:03:12 PM · #2572 |
New Hampshire: The sixth state to legalize gay marriage! That's over 10% of states now supporting my equal rights!
But the trauma isn't over yet folks, how's this for irony:
Lesbian Collapses After Fresno March, Partner Refused Hospital Access
That's right... if anyone still thinks this is a rare occurrence... it's not. A woman was denied access to her partner who collapsed... at an equal rights march! What kind of heartless monster puts their own prejudice before the needs and fears of an ailing couple?
I think we know.
I just hope it never happens to me. |
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06/05/2009 11:50:14 PM · #2573 |
Originally posted by sfalice:
Well, Prop 8 was just upheld by the California Supreme Court. |
Originally posted by K10DGuy:
To me, it's just the latest in a fine tradition of Humanity's ability to embarrass the hell out of itself. |
True that.....
Some days my fellow man makes me ashamed. |
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06/08/2009 04:44:35 PM · #2574 |
Originally posted by Mousie:
New Hampshire: The sixth state to legalize gay marriage! That's over 10% of states now supporting my equal rights!
But the trauma isn't over yet folks, how's this for irony:
Lesbian Collapses After Fresno March, Partner Refused Hospital Access
That's right... if anyone still thinks this is a rare occurrence... it's not. A woman was denied access to her partner who collapsed... at an equal rights march! What kind of heartless monster puts their own prejudice before the needs and fears of an ailing couple?
I think we know.
I just hope it never happens to me. |
Why do people like that become caretakers? It's like teachers who hate children. There had to be other options. Come on. If you have no compassion, don't be a nurse. |
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06/08/2009 04:59:24 PM · #2575 |
Originally posted by escapetooz:
Why do people like that become caretakers? It's like teachers who hate children. There had to be other options. Come on. If you have no compassion, don't be a nurse. |
I think you mean "caregivers", surely?
R. |
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