| Author | Thread |
|
|
01/07/2009 07:49:47 PM · #1 |
This excellent photograph or it's score? Pardon the tone of this my fourth or fifth thread started since 2003. I need to know what everyone who voted this challenge is smoking.... The cheese, with exception of one of the ribbons on the front page is beyond me. When something wins a challenge it should at the very least upon viewing bring the challenge theme to mind. I'll do you all a favor and extend Steve great gratitude for deviating from the norm and allowing us a view at a REAL moment that will Never be recreated. I suspect this would have done better if you knew who took it. I suspect it would not have been as good if he cared.
|
|
|
|
01/07/2009 07:52:00 PM · #2 |
| For what its worth, I gave this a 10 in voting. |
|
|
|
01/07/2009 07:53:45 PM · #3 |
Originally posted by BAMartin:
For what its worth, I gave this a 10 in voting. |
You may enter ma lady!
Message edited by author 2009-01-07 19:55:28.
|
|
|
|
01/07/2009 07:55:00 PM · #4 |
Originally posted by roby21112:
You may enter sir! |
Sir?? |
|
|
|
01/07/2009 07:57:09 PM · #5 |
Originally posted by BAMartin:
Originally posted by roby21112:
You may enter sir! |
Sir?? |
I play an ass on TV. Sorry
|
|
|
|
01/07/2009 08:00:12 PM · #6 |
Compisition is not optimal. Why include the two far walkers? They only distract from the subject and don't add anything. I'd think about a square crop which still includes the other two guys looking at the advertisements. The colors are drab so I'd also automatically think B&W.
What story is being told? What tools did the photog employ to bring that story out (composition, processing)? Just because a photo is not "eye candy" does not necessarily make it good. Frankly without the title I'm not even sure I'd know she was cooking rather than cleaning her cooker.
I think it scored exactly where it should have. |
|
|
|
01/07/2009 08:12:20 PM · #7 |
Originally posted by DrAchoo:
Compisition is not optimal. Why include the two far walkers? They only distract from the subject and don't add anything. I'd think about a square crop which still includes the other two guys looking at the advertisements. The colors are drab so I'd also automatically think B&W.
What story is being told? What tools did the photog employ to bring that story out (composition, processing)? Just because a photo is not "eye candy" does not necessarily make it good. Frankly without the title I'm not even sure I'd know she was cooking rather than cleaning her cooker.
I think it scored exactly where it should have. |
1 Why not clean it in he kitchen= old school
2 image has rule of thirds, frankly to be obvious for the challenge he had to include elements in the background Asian in nature not to lose this crowd, I think.
3 The colors to me are as the job function.
I think as a whole if he had let us know this was taken on a city street in Manhattan it would have done better but seriously. She is not cooking! She is cleaning the thin in th middle of the street! this is my point.
Message edited by author 2009-01-07 20:19:48.
|
|
|
|
01/07/2009 08:21:06 PM · #8 |
| I am more distracted by the boxes. To me, the walkers add some depth. |
|
|
|
01/07/2009 08:34:54 PM · #9 |
Originally posted by chaimelle:
I am more distracted by the boxes. To me, the walkers add some depth. |
Having some one or something Asian looking does NOT meet the challenge. The description said "bring Asia to us or some crap" if I'm wrong and that would be rare, my point is valid. At the end of the day this brings what we are all quick to point out as a stereotype in a perception and not sure what to do with when it is in our face. Not often seen Steve grabbed a REAL moment and was owned in his score by it from a community that thinks they have a clear understanding of art.
I often get a request for "a shot" now lets say the assignment was Asian...which of the front page images would you submit. Ill bet you a paycheck none would be picked. I pretty confident that the shot in question would would.
Message edited by author 2009-01-07 20:49:32.
|
|
|
|
01/07/2009 08:52:47 PM · #10 |
|
|
|
01/07/2009 09:02:19 PM · #11 |
Originally posted by roby21112:
... The description said "bring Asia to us or some crap" ... |
Don't mention descriptions. lol |
|
|
|
01/07/2009 09:34:03 PM · #12 |
Originally posted by roby21112:
At the end of the day this brings what we are all quick to point out as a stereotype in a perception and not sure what to do with when it is in our face. |
speaking of stereotype, i'm glad there are photos beside chinese and japanese in the top 20 of this challenge.
side note: just watched "the day the earth stood still 2008" (albeit being rated as poor, i love sci-fi, damn!) and at the scene where keanu meets another alien and they started talking, boy that chinese(?) man has got the worse mandarin i've ever heard. his chinese sounded so foreign that even keanu speaks better (albeit only a few short sentences) |
|
|
|
01/09/2009 03:46:15 PM · #13 |
I saw this thread a little late when people PMed me but wanted to give it some thought.
When I think Asia, my thoughts don't go anywhere near the stereotypical things many associate with the continent. Geisha's, Temples, Sushi, Dragons and Ming Vases seem a bit simplistic for such a complex part or the world. My mind normally goes to the bustling busy streets of Hong Kong, Bangkok, Saigon, Mumbai where so many people do their living, socializing, relaxing, business etc. on the street.
If you read my pre-Challenge comments, I stated that it probably wouldn't do too well up against pretty Asian girls, which there were four in the top eight but I did think I'd easily break a 6. Numbers certainly don't matter but they do say something about the audience.
It should be understood that I had only four or five clicks to get the shot standing in the middle of the street before she saw me or was done with what she was doing. A fleeting moment if there was one. Another thing is that Chinatown NYC is or can be a very dangerous place to shoot certain subject matter. There's an abundance of Street Gangs, illegal Vendors, Bootleggers, illegal gambling joints etc. and if that business is in frame you could wind up dead or beaten up. In fact, as I was shooting the woman cleaning her rice cooker, a young Asian guy said to me as he was walking by "you better be careful, they don't like that around here..."
DrAchoo's response is what I kinda expected. It's normal, if people like things presented in a conventional or commercial fashion. It's also normal for folk to tell you how they would like to see a scene and not fully consider the scene as it's being presented.
I left the image in color because I knew there would be a flood of colorful Asian products or women in the Challenge. So I pandered a bit even though the scene as shot was pretty drab, taken on a foggy, drizzly dark street, just before the sun went down. So it's actually a really dolled-up shot, believe it or not and again, I pandered a bit.
To answer the Doc, I try to present scenes as I see them. My compositions will never be precisely resolved, each object so exactly placed, each figure so cleanly shaped as frankly, that's NOT how real life goes down. Everything in frame does play it's part whether people understand that or not. Sadly that's not terribly well addressed around here. Again, I'll add that I jumped into the middle of a bustling street and didn't have more than a few seconds to get anything at all, through the lens let alone a clean crop. One of my other crops done in B&W, I made sure to get some Asian lettering in the frame so the two second viewer would have something clearly Asian to get their teeth into. The crop I chose had her more out front, so I went with it.
One thing I thought was really cool about the capture was that she was squatting like a farmer cultivating rice (or another crop) though she was in a busy city street doing house cleaning.
In short, I thought it was something more genuine to what one would see in the streets of Asia than what many people came up with. Stereotypical stuff does far better and maybe that's that.
I'm curious what other people think of the route I took...?
Message edited by author 2009-01-09 15:49:08. |
|
|
|
01/09/2009 03:56:34 PM · #14 |
| Gave it a 4. Just not that interesting, and looks like a snapshot. Perhaps more of a portrait of the person cleaning the pot? |
|
|
|
01/09/2009 03:59:48 PM · #15 |
Originally posted by roby21112:
Originally posted by chaimelle:
I am more distracted by the boxes. To me, the walkers add some depth. |
Having some one or something Asian looking does NOT meet the challenge. The description said "bring Asia to us or some crap" if I'm wrong and that would be rare, my point is valid. At the end of the day this brings what we are all quick to point out as a stereotype in a perception and not sure what to do with when it is in our face. Not often seen Steve grabbed a REAL moment and was owned in his score by it from a community that thinks they have a clear understanding of art.
I often get a request for "a shot" now lets say the assignment was Asian...which of the front page images would you submit. Ill bet you a paycheck none would be picked. I pretty confident that the shot in question would would. |
I take offense from this. You are having a go at the members of this site and how they seem to think they have a clear understanding of art because your favorite photo didn't win? I did not enter and I did not vote on that challenge...but I and many others seem to be included in your little stereotyping project! Everybody has a different perception of Art....that is what art is about. Granted that your style image may attract a bigger pay check from one publication...but it wouldn't get the bigger paycheck from all forms of media. Does that make your chosen image the only type of image that should be photographed? So you are saying that artists should scrap one style of art and only concentrate on one type of art as that is the only area that should be classed as art. You are so blinded in your reasoning's that you have ignored what art is all about.
Granted you feel that image is more suitable to the challenge than the others...but that is only your opinion. Others may and obviously do think otherwise.
Now before you go jumping down my throat, I have not said my opinion on that photo...therefore I haven't agreed or disagreed with your choice...I am purely making it clear that you have accused us of stereotyping our non-Art pieces to fit the challenges on here, when you in fact have stereotyped us without giving us any credit for our own beliefs and visions in photography. You may not have entered many forum threads since you joined...but I suggest you start some serious reading into many of the forum threads and the heavy discussions on Art as a form and also the many creative styles that occur and develop within the Side Challenges.
Only then can you say that you have studied what this site is about...and you will never be able to say that this site is restricted to one type of Art!
|
|
|
|
01/09/2009 04:06:50 PM · #16 |
Originally posted by chaimelle:
I am more distracted by the boxes. To me, the walkers add some depth. |
I like Steve's work overall, however, that being said I disagree with the walkers adding to this photo. IMO they take away as the viewer is led away from the main subject/story. The boxes, for me, are neither here nor there - if anything they kind of anchor the left side of this photo and keep me in-bounds. I also agree with with Doc said about the comp and potential crop - it would be stronger without the right portion of the image.
Didn't get to this photo during voting. Most likely would have given it a 6, maybe a 7 depending on what mood I was in. :-) |
|
|
|
01/09/2009 04:11:05 PM · #17 |
Originally posted by pawdrix:
I'm curious what other people think of the route I took...? |
I think it's fantastic that you decided to take a different route, shot what you wanted, and entered it.
Everything we enter gives us another path, another vision, another way of looking at things. As much as I like to rail against some things, I wouldn't have people not submit them. Why? Because if people stop submitting the stuff that always wins, something else would just become something that always wins, and what then?
We always want the site to change to our own visions, it's only human after all, but in the end it's a big ol' game, and we either play it or we don't. We can play to win, we can play for fun, or we can get mad, grab the game board, and go home.
Keep doing what you're doing Pawdrix, and everyone that does what they want to do because they want to do it, and DPC will simply keep on trucking, and we will rant and rave and stay or go. It matters not.
As a postscript, I just wanted to add that personally, I don't much care for this particular entry. I found it rather drab and the story isn't immediately clear. I feel that it's more of an intimate knowledge shot, where you kind of have to know the history of a place/person in order to really get it, and while that's great for personal portfolios, it's not very good for the mass market.
Most of my stuff is intimate knowledge stuff too, so I'm not putting it down, I just wasn't connected to it and would have scored it pretty mid-range. Probably a 5.
|
|
|
|
01/09/2009 04:14:53 PM · #18 |
Originally posted by HawkeyeLonewolf:
Gave it a 4. Just not that interesting, and looks like a snapshot. Perhaps more of a portrait of the person cleaning the pot? |
Are any of the winning Asia images, on the front page all that interesting or are they eye candy? Just my personal taste but I don't find any of them interesting in the slightest way. Not even minutely. Again, just my personal taste.
As for the walkers. To me it amounts to a DPC ADD thing. How do people drive their cars with so many distractions and eye leading objects all around? Just an opinion but to call something a distraction shouldn't it really distract? I don't think they distract or lead the eye at all UNLESS you've been trained to think that way. No offense. ;)
I never saw a distraction until I came to this site where people pointed them out so readily. I even started to see things after a while until I realized it was nuts to nitpick to such a degree.
All for now...
Message edited by author 2009-01-09 16:44:48. |
|
|
|
01/09/2009 04:17:05 PM · #19 |
Originally posted by pawdrix:
Originally posted by HawkeyeLonewolf:
Gave it a 4. Just not that interesting, and looks like a snapshot. Perhaps more of a portrait of the person cleaning the pot? |
Are any of the images on the front page all that interesting or are they eye candy? Just my personal taste but I don't find any of them interesting in the slightest way. Not even minutely. Again, just my personal taste. |
And that....is what makes this site so interesting. So many styles and ideas. And that is also what Art is all about....! No one can deny that and no one can change that....people can rant and rave...but it will never be any different. And to be honest...I wouldn't want it to be any different, or Art would be very boring.
|
|
|
|
01/09/2009 04:19:43 PM · #20 |
Originally posted by Judi:
Originally posted by pawdrix:
Originally posted by HawkeyeLonewolf:
Gave it a 4. Just not that interesting, and looks like a snapshot. Perhaps more of a portrait of the person cleaning the pot? |
Are any of the images on the front page all that interesting or are they eye candy? Just my personal taste but I don't find any of them interesting in the slightest way. Not even minutely. Again, just my personal taste. |
And that....is what makes this site so interesting. So many styles and ideas. And that is also what Art is all about....! No one can deny that and no one can change that....people can rant and rave...but it will never be any different. And to be honest...I wouldn't want it to be any different, or Art would be very boring. |
I don't think Art could ever be boring. |
|
|
|
01/09/2009 04:28:53 PM · #21 |
I love these "my opinion is right, your opinion is wrong" threads. Makes for interesting reading.
Message edited by author 2009-01-09 16:29:06. |
|
|
|
01/09/2009 04:30:59 PM · #22 |
I like the two guys walking off in the background. They pair well with the two guys looking at the wall - same things, different sizes. Then the two guys in the background pair well with the woman - same relative sizes. All that back and forth for the eye would be gone if they were cropped out. There's also something of a triangular composition between the relative placements of the 3 groups that again goes with a different crop to remove them.
I like the colours too, her red/maroon apron is picked up again in the broom behind her and the hints of red in the boxes and what looks to be a bit of a jacket to the left. Her hair even seems to have reddish touch. The rest of the colours are all cool blues or browns - a fairly subdued and subtle colour palette for sure, not screaming and neon. I think there is often the assumption that if you take a bad colour picture it should suddenly be B&W, as if black and white composition is just about removing the colour on something that doesn't work. This shot seems to have an honest colour palette and some interesting light playing through it (e.g., the reflections on the bulletin board and the edge of the kerb on the slick sidewalk). It is probably more subtle in that respect than the in your face, massively saturated, non-real world colouring that does well on a quick glance.
Looking a bit more closely, there's lots of 'pairs' of things going on in the paper stuck to the wall that the guys are looking at, the idea of twos repeating all through the scene works quite well to pull it all together for me. Two's and four's seem to be a common theme.
I find more to enjoy the more I take the time to look and think about what's going on, which at least for me makes it a lot more interesting than a quick snapshot. That's before I even get to questions about what is she doing, what is her story, what are the two guys looking at on the wall, where is this, what's going on?
Message edited by author 2009-01-09 16:36:47. |
|
|
|
01/09/2009 04:35:40 PM · #23 |
Originally posted by pawdrix:
Originally posted by HawkeyeLonewolf:
Gave it a 4. Just not that interesting, and looks like a snapshot. Perhaps more of a portrait of the person cleaning the pot? |
Are any of the winning Asia images, on the front page all that interesting or are they eye candy? Just my personal taste but I don't find any of them interesting in the slightest way. Not even minutely. Again, just my personal taste.
As for the walkers. To me it amounts to a DPC ADD thing. How do people drive their cars with so many distractions and eye leading objects all around? Just an opinion but to call something a distraction shouldn't it really distract? I don't think they distract or lead the eye at all UNLESS you've been trained to think that way. No offense. ;)
I never saw distraction until I came to this site where people pointed them out so readily. I even started to see things after a while until I realized it was nuts to nitpick to such a degree.
All for now... |
I was pretty curious about the gal swimming with the koi. What's up with that? It is interesting to me. Certainly not "real life", but still interesting.
EDIT: Ah, I forgot that was transparency and Claire only came in 9th in this one. Oh well.
Message edited by author 2009-01-09 16:42:29. |
|
|
|
01/09/2009 05:00:16 PM · #24 |
I gave it a 5. I recognized it as genuine and good street photography, that met the challenge well, but it didn't have a huge impact on me. Possibly it was because I was not understanding why she had the rice cooker out in the street. Pawdrix PM'd me and told me she was cleaning it. Even if that affected my understanding of the scene better, I won't change a vote after learning whose entry it is. (The exception to that being when I already know whose it is, due to subject or style)
Oh, to answer your original question, I'm smoking Pez, lots of it.
Message edited by author 2009-01-09 17:02:17. |
|
|
|
01/09/2009 05:02:04 PM · #25 |
Originally posted by Judi:
Originally posted by roby21112:
Originally posted by chaimelle:
I am more distracted by the boxes. To me, the walkers add some depth. |
Having some one or something Asian looking does NOT meet the challenge. The description said "bring Asia to us or some crap" if I'm wrong and that would be rare, my point is valid. At the end of the day this brings what we are all quick to point out as a stereotype in a perception and not sure what to do with when it is in our face. Not often seen Steve grabbed a REAL moment and was owned in his score by it from a community that thinks they have a clear understanding of art.
I often get a request for "a shot" now lets say the assignment was Asian...which of the front page images would you submit. Ill bet you a paycheck none would be picked. I pretty confident that the shot in question would would. |
I take offense from this. You are having a go at the members of this site and how they seem to think they have a clear understanding of art because your favorite photo didn't win? I did not enter and I did not vote on that challenge...but I and many others seem to be included in your little stereotyping project! Everybody has a different perception of Art....that is what art is about. Granted that your style image may attract a bigger pay check from one publication...but it wouldn't get the bigger paycheck from all forms of media. Does that make your chosen image the only type of image that should be photographed? So you are saying that artists should scrap one style of art and only concentrate on one type of art as that is the only area that should be classed as art. You are so blinded in your reasoning's that you have ignored what art is all about.
Granted you feel that image is more suitable to the challenge than the others...but that is only your opinion. Others may and obviously do think otherwise.
Now before you go jumping down my throat, I have not said my opinion on that photo...therefore I haven't agreed or disagreed with your choice...I am purely making it clear that you have accused us of stereotyping our non-Art pieces to fit the challenges on here, when you in fact have stereotyped us without giving us any credit for our own beliefs and visions in photography. You may not have entered many forum threads since you joined...but I suggest you start some serious reading into many of the forum threads and the heavy discussions on Art as a form and also the many creative styles that occur and develop within the Side Challenges.
Only then can you say that you have studied what this site is about...and you will never be able to say that this site is restricted to one type of Art! |
Hi Judi,
My hope with the wording was to get enough rise out of folks to get them to take a long hard look at this image,nothing more. I'll be honest and say that for the most part shots that end up wining are not my cup of tea but I stick around enter, vote, comment when the mood strikes and learn plenty. I did study art for five years and have a clear understanding of what is pleasing or moving to me and am very clear on the definition of perception. I think of this site as more of a fun distraction. I do not read the forums largely cause I simply am too busy or just do not care to get into the discussion of what art is, it is whatever you or the person behind, below, beneath, beside you think it is and any discussion to the contrary at least for me is silly. I apologize if I offended you or anyone else. Sorry, except Slippy.
Message edited by author 2009-01-09 17:03:41. |
|
