Bokeh V - DPChallenge Forums

Nikon AF-S DX Zoom-Nikkor 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 ED

12/11/2008 05:12:56 PM · #53

Sidestepping the issue of which lens creates the best bokeh, & whether it's mostly a technical issue or not....sidestepping the last few discussions on the subject of bokeh....

Why should the area of the image that is not in focus be the subject? Isn't the whole composition, including the molecules of the air, supposed to be razor sharp? What's the point of bokeh, anyway?

What's the point in BOKEH V: the challenge? For people to show off expensive lenses? To give the DNMC voters something to do?

I've been googling bokeh & found some really beautiful photos with emotional impact. Some combine motion blur & bokeh. Some make use of color & bokeh to creat abstract images of great beauty. I think it's my mission at DPC to give the DNMC voters a purpose in life, so I'm going to try something abstract, with nothing at all in focus. Even the DNMC voters who are no longer members will feel a disturbance in the force.

BeeCee

Nikon D40

12/11/2008 05:37:14 PM · #54

I was actually being mostly facetious when I posted this because I remember the other "discussions" on bokeh, including the "circles of light" disagreements.

I also thought of this one because of the artworks uproar :)

Message edited by author 2008-12-11 17:37:27.

SteveJ

Canon EOS-7D

12/11/2008 05:51:22 PM · #55

Originally posted by pixelpig:

Doesn't that defeat the whole purpose of the challenge?? The whole point of bokeh is that the subject is sharply in focus with a pleasing, yet out of focus background??

Ecce_Signum

12/11/2008 05:59:25 PM · #56

Originally posted by SteveJ:

Doesn't that defeat the whole purpose of the challenge?? The whole point of bokeh is that the subject is sharply in focus with a pleasing, yet out of focus background??

Hmmm, I read the challenge as 'bokeh' with no description, where did the sharp focus foreground come from? That said if I shoot my idea it will have an in focus foreground but the challenge is not asking for that so a nice dreamy bokeh with no in focus subject would be fine and could well score well imho.

SteveJ

Canon EOS-7D

Sigma 18-300mm f3.5-6.3 DC Macro OS HSM

12/11/2008 06:01:45 PM · #57

Originally posted by Ecce Signum:

Originally posted by SteveJ:

Doesn't that defeat the whole purpose of the challenge?? The whole point of bokeh is that the subject is sharply in focus with a pleasing, yet out of focus background??

Hmmm, I read the challenge as 'bokeh' with no description, where did the sharp focus foreground come from? That said if I shoot my idea it will have an in focus foreground but the challenge is not asking for that so a nice dreamy bokeh with no in focus subject would be fine and could well score well imho.

I don't know if the challenge description says that, but I have always taken bokeh shots to be as I said, perhaps I am wrong, which I frequently am!!

jhomrighaus

Nikon D5300

12/11/2008 06:03:40 PM · #58

In general I have found the term bokeh to be used in the context of using an out of focus background to enhance the mood of the main subject of an image. thus infocus subject, OOF background used together to provide impact. This is what i was refering to earlier when i was discussing the "Quality"(the lens etc) as opposed to the "Use" the composition(the photographer)

Ecce_Signum

12/11/2008 06:07:02 PM · #59

Originally posted by SteveJ:

I don't know if the challenge description says that, but I have always taken bokeh shots to be as I said, perhaps I am wrong, which I frequently am!!

There is no wrong here Steve, its just preconceived ideas and I think the meaning of bokeh has been done to death but voters will still have their idea of what bokeh (and more importantly good bokeh) is.

So, do I shoot with the lensbaby for a whacky hard to fathom bokeh, the SAKAR 500mm mirror for another whacky bokeh or maybe the 70-200/2.8 for a more pleasing (to the voter)bokeh.

See, now I'm talking myself out of entering

Gordon

RIM BlackBerry Curve

Canon EF 85mm f/1.8 USM

12/11/2008 06:28:36 PM · #60

Originally posted by jhomrighaus:

I'd disagree, based on Mike Johnston, who is generally credited with introducing the term bokeh to the West. It is a term used to describe the quality of the out of focus highlights of an image (good bokeh, vs 'bad' bokeh, been due to the aperture blades of the lens, amongst other things- smoothness of the OOF highlights, how circular they are etc)

Nothing to do with a subject or things in focus or anything like that, though that meaning gets layered upon the term when used in a challenge here.

My MFS would be a reasonable example of bokeh being used to create an image. Nothing in focus, all about bokeh.

The voters won't agree with this, but we might as well get the meaning of the term vaguely right before abusing it.

Bokeh (derived from Japanese, a noun boke, meaning "blurred or fuzzy") is a photographic term referring to the appearance of out-of-focus areas in an image produced by a camera lens using a shallow depth of field.

Taken more literally, the challenge is 'blurred or fuzzy' V, but see how far that gets you in voting.

Actually, to be precise, what I had noticed was not just that people mispronounced the word as it was commonly spelled, but that they had a tendency to ridicule it, making lame jokes about it as if it rhymed with "smoke" or "toke" or "joke." Actually, even spelled boke, it is properly pronounced with bo as in bone and ke as in Kenneth, with equal stress on either syllable. It is a Japanese word meaning, roughly, "fuzzy," and it is used to describe old people with cobwebs in their heads among several other things â�� including the out-of-focus areas of photographs, which, I'm told, might more specifically be referred to as "boke-aji."

Message edited by author 2008-12-11 18:31:51.

12/11/2008 07:23:28 PM · #61

Because I like abstracts, 'Bokeh V' does not imply a sharply focused FG subject, or any subject at all.

Ecce_Signum

Tamron 16-300mm Di II VC PZD MACRO w/Canon Nikon mount

12/11/2008 07:27:21 PM · #62

Originally posted by pixelpig:

Because I like abstracts, 'Bokeh V' does not imply a sharply focused FG subject, or any subject at all.

Your right, it doesn't but sadly I think the majority of voters will be looking to place their high scores on the sharp focussed foreground with a pleasing bg bokeh - go figure ;)

JulietNN

Canon EOS R7

12/11/2008 07:35:16 PM · #63

Arrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrgggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggg
gggggggggggggggstill dont get itggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggg
gggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggstill dont get itggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggg
gggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggg
ggggggggI hate bokehgggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggg
gggggggggggggggggggggggggggggstill dont get itggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggg
ggggggggggggggggggstupid fuzzy lightsggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggg

De Sousa

Canon EF 50mm f/1.4 USM

12/11/2008 07:37:04 PM · #64

I would love so much to enter this challenge, cause Bokeh II was the reason I started making photos. It's still one of my fav images (you know, first love...)

Marc923

12/11/2008 07:47:15 PM · #65

Originally posted by De Sousa:

I would love so much to enter this challenge, cause Bokeh II was the reason I started making photos. It's still one of my fav images (you know, first love...)

You mean you've only been taking photos for 2 years? Very impressive.

12/11/2008 08:36:44 PM · #66

Originally posted by Ecce Signum:

Originally posted by pixelpig:
Because I like abstracts, 'Bokeh V' does not imply a sharply focused FG subject, or any subject at all.

Your right, it doesn't but sadly I think the majority of voters will be looking to place their high scores on the sharp focussed foreground with a pleasing bg bokeh - go figure ;)

Haha I'll give you a 10 if you give me one! (J*O*K*I*N*G!!!!) It seems we agree. It's more difficult to get a beautiful total-bokeh image than it seems. If you give the lens something to focus on, of course you get lots of BG bokeh. But with nothing to focus on, to get an exposure of no-focus perfect bokeh....I'd have to use 300mm on a table-top subject or something. Fun!

12/11/2008 08:51:39 PM · #67

Originally posted by JulietNN:

OK, breathe into a paper bag for a moment! "D
You can do it! I know you can!
Most of the voters are going to want a FG subject in focus, with the BG showing those cute little circles of light. Or the velvet smooth oof BG. You already know how to do it.

pedrobop

Canon PowerShot SX100 IS

Olympus 12-40mm f/2.8 Pro

12/12/2008 09:05:29 AM · #68

I'm just scared with my future results in this challenge, but i'll try!

Message edited by author 2008-12-12 09:05:39.

Azrifel

Fujifilm X100VI

12/12/2008 09:19:31 AM · #69

My whole body feels sick everytime I see a "bokeh" challenge and read all that circles of light bullshit. It is about background smoothness, which absolutely does not need a circle to display that. Argghh, argghh and beh.

Pikkel

Olympus OM-D E-M1

12/12/2008 05:56:15 PM · #70

Originally posted by thegrandwazoo:

Originally posted by pedrobop:

Originally posted by thegrandwazoo:
Because I love to hate this discussion I will post for like the billionth time BoKeh is a Japanese concept to define the pleasing out of focus area of an image it is not defined by the little OOF circles of light although they are a result of BoKeh.

And for the record Rockwell is a Fool (This is funny because in Japanese BoKeh means "Fool" or "Idiot:! :-D

I don't know anything about Bokeh or Rockwell, but i liked his article because it gave me some information. I'm just trying to learn. And the thing about circles was just a inexperienced impression...

I am not picking on you at all. This is just a pet peeve of mine and I guess I would just like to see more really learn about the concept as opposed to just defining it by the circles of confusion. As far as the Ken comment it is a reference to a thread here on DPC.

:-)

-Erick

I need extreme help I've read read and read I 've played with my camera I'm just stupid I love the results I realize what it is supposed to be something in focus in the front with the lights in the back ground being out of focus to a poin tthat they create interest and not just take away from the aforeground highly defined portion of the pic but I CAN"T GET IT TO WORK!!!! I WANNA GET IT TOO WORK!!!!

Pikkel

Olympus OM-D E-M1

Olympus 12-40mm f/2.8 Pro

12/12/2008 05:58:01 PM · #71

Originally posted by pixelpig:

Because I like abstracts, 'Bokeh V' does not imply a sharply focused FG subject, or any subject at all.

ack so if I create fuzzy photo it is true of bokeh ACKKKK ACKKKKK there are so many varitions of the theme when Ir ead I'm never going to be good at this!!!

thegrandwazoo

Nikon D750

Nikon AF-S NIKKOR 24-70mm f/2.8G ED

12/12/2008 06:33:59 PM · #72

Originally posted by Pikkel:

So shoot wide open, subject pretty close to the camera and the background kinda far away. The further away the background the more out of focus it becomes.

Judi

Canon EOS-5D Mark III

Olympus 12-40mm f/2.8 Pro

12/12/2008 06:39:16 PM · #73

Originally posted by pixelpig:

Originally posted by JulietNN:
Arrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrgggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggg
gggggggggggggggstill dont get itggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggg
gggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggstill dont get itggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggg
gggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggg
ggggggggI hate bokehgggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggg
gggggggggggggggggggggggggggggstill dont get itggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggg
ggggggggggggggggggstupid fuzzy lightsggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggg

OK, breathe into a paper bag for a moment! "D
You can do it! I know you can!
Most of the voters are going to want a FG subject in focus, with the BG showing those cute little circles of light. Or the velvet smooth oof BG. You already know how to do it.

circles are an obvious Bokeh but the other forms of squiggly little lines are also within the Bokeh range. Here are my last 2 Bokeh entries wich both finished top 5 in their challenges. It just goes to show that circles aren't always the winners in a Bokeh challenge.

Pikkel

Olympus OM-D E-M1

12/12/2008 07:07:01 PM · #74

Originally posted by thegrandwazoo:

Originally posted by Pikkel:

I need extreme help I've read read and read I 've played with my camera I'm just stupid I love the results I realize what it is supposed to be something in focus in the front with the lights in the back ground being out of focus to a poin tthat they create interest and not just take away from the aforeground highly defined portion of the pic but I CAN"T GET IT TO WORK!!!! I WANNA GET IT TOO WORK!!!!

So shoot wide open, subject pretty close to the camera and the background kinda far away. The further away the background the more out of focus it becomes.

thank you for your help and I will try it......I'm not very successful at stuff I can't even get my family of five plus one twenty one year old gf of the eldest together for a frikken family photo for xmas and I've been beggin since my bday in september but maybe I'll have more luck with Bokeh than my kids!!!! One would hope my camera at least tries to help me!!!

pedrobop

Canon PowerShot SX100 IS