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12/08/2003 01:38:37 AM · #1 |
How do you convert your images to B & W?
I read that just using the convert to Grayscale does not effectively convert a color image to B & W. Some people use the Hue/Saturation layer or a plug-in, ie. Fred Miranda's.
I've been looking for a good B & W workflow. What does everyone else use/do? |
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12/08/2003 01:41:54 AM · #2 |
| I've actually had pretty good success just converting to grayscale over the years, but the current popular method is to use an adjustment layer with the channel mixer in monochrome mode -- then you can specify how each color channel contributes to the overall image. The optimum settings will likely be different for every picture. |
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12/08/2003 01:56:30 AM · #3 |
I use gradiant maping. I set the foreground color to absolute black and the background color to absolute white. I then use contrast to give final adjustments...I know this is just one way with Photoshop 7.0
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12/08/2003 06:29:12 AM · #4 |
I pretty much always use the channel mixer, and depending on the image, normally with the green channel because it has less noise.
Here's an example of the difference the choice of channel can make. The label below the pic shows the channel I used:
Monochrome with Red, Blue and Green channels |
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12/08/2003 07:22:04 AM · #5 |
I find the most effective way for web display is to desaturate the image around 30-60%, depending how colourful the original is: you keep a lot more information that way. Converting to B&W, by whatever means, leaves you with only 256 shades of grey, which isn't really enough.
Ed
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12/08/2003 07:51:39 AM · #6 |
Originally posted by mjalvarino:
How do you convert your images to B & W?
I read that just using the convert to Grayscale does not effectively convert a color image to B & W. Some people use the Hue/Saturation layer or a plug-in, ie. Fred Miranda's.
I've been looking for a good B & W workflow. What does everyone else use/do? |
Best way I've used is to use two saturation layers: the uppermost is set to blend mode "saturation", and the one below is set to blend mode normal. Set the saturation bar all the way left (no saturation) on the top most layer; then you can adjust the saturation layer below it and adjust the tones.
Now whether that is DPC legal or not, I don't know. But it's interesting to me what is considered DPC legal. I noticed in the soft focus challenge, it was legal to apply a gaussian blur and "fade" it. With photoshop elements, the only way to fade such a blur is to add it to a layer and adjust the transparency. Then you can merge them. But that's illegal I presume, and yet the photoshop action above does exactly the same thing, and it's legal. TOBAL.
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12/08/2003 08:54:21 AM · #7 |
I create a duplicate of the image, and split the channels to have a good look at what ratio of red, green and blue I want. (Duplicate image, then Channels -Split channels)
From that I have a good idea of what ratio of red, green and blue I want and dial that straight into the channel mixer. I don't use any constant offset - if its too dark or light I'll fix that later. The total percentage across all 3 channels should be close to 100%
After that, Image-Grayscale to convert to B&W.
Image->Duotone and pick something that suits the image from the presets, or modify one of the presets appropriately.
Image->RGB, and do any required adjustments as curves or levels adjustment layers
Add a couple of dodge/ burn layers and do any final tonal shifts through a 50% grey overlay layer, painted to adjust brightness. Typically I'll gaussian blur the layer before applying it to smooth out any abrupt transistions. |
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12/08/2003 09:07:00 AM · #8 |
I convert in the raw converter I got with the camera. You can change contrast, hue, saturation, fill light, sharpness, highlight,shadows,and exposure. It's really great because when I desaturate, I can use the color wheel to add red,green,blue or yellow filter effects and then save as 16 bit tiff. I'm pretty unsure about the number of greys I would get with this 16 bit picture.
Edit: Wow. I just tried it. e301 you are one smart guy. The amount in my totally desaturated was 414, full color 63254 and almost fully desaturated 6000 someting. Thanks.
Message edited by author 2003-12-08 09:22:08. |
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12/09/2003 03:18:55 PM · #9 |
my camera has a B&W mode on it... but it's effectively the same as taking the image and converting to greyscale... that's how i usually do it...
edit:
KISS method for me ;)
Message edited by author 2003-12-09 15:19:11.
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12/09/2003 03:51:22 PM · #10 |
Originally posted by nshapiro:
Best way I've used is to use two saturation layers: the uppermost is set to blend mode "saturation", and the one below is set to blend mode normal.
Now whether that is DPC legal or not, I don't know. But it's interesting to me what is considered DPC legal. |
Neil, if you use an adjustment layer you can only use the normal blending mode. Changing the blending mode of your hue/saturation adjustment layer to "saturation" isn't DPC legal.
Originally posted by nshapiro:
I noticed in the soft focus challenge, it was legal to apply a gaussian blur and "fade" it. With photoshop elements, the only way to fade such a blur is to add it to a layer and adjust the transparency. Then you can merge them. But that's illegal I presume, and yet the photoshop action above does exactly the same thing, and it's legal. |
After using the guassian blur filter in PS, or any filter in fact, you can use the fade command under Edit/fade.
I myself follow much the same procedure as Gordon mentioned.
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12/09/2003 04:23:02 PM · #11 |
Originally posted by kiwiness:
Originally posted by nshapiro:
Best way I've used is to use two saturation layers: the uppermost is set to blend mode "saturation", and the one below is set to blend mode normal.
Now whether that is DPC legal or not, I don't know. But it's interesting to me what is considered DPC legal. |
Neil, if you use an adjustment layer you can only use the normal blending mode. Changing the blending mode of your hue/saturation adjustment layer to "saturation" isn't DPC legal.
Originally posted by nshapiro:
I noticed in the soft focus challenge, it was legal to apply a gaussian blur and "fade" it. With photoshop elements, the only way to fade such a blur is to add it to a layer and adjust the transparency. Then you can merge them. But that's illegal I presume, and yet the photoshop action above does exactly the same thing, and it's legal. |
After using the guassian blur filter in PS, or any filter in fact, you can use the fade command under Edit/fade.
I myself follow much the same procedure as Gordon mentioned. |
I understand the rules can't handle all the different programs out there, and of course, all the different ways to do the same thing. But perhaps the rules need to be rewritten to cover the OUTCOME and not the METHOD.
For example, the rule apparently discriminates against those who can't afford PS, and instead use the lower priced PS Elements. PSe doesn't have any way to do such a fade. Yet the fade is no different than applying a layer in temporary space, and then merging it.
One could then argue, if it's illegal in PSe to accomplish the same effect, that the use of fade in PS violates the spirit, if not the letter, of the rule.
Message edited by author 2003-12-09 16:24:44. |
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12/09/2003 08:05:26 PM · #12 |
Originally posted by nshapiro:
One could then argue, if it's illegal in PSe to accomplish the same effect, that the use of fade in PS violates the spirit, if not the letter, of the rule. |
I'd agree that it does. |
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12/09/2003 08:07:59 PM · #13 |
Originally posted by Gordon:
Originally posted by nshapiro:
One could then argue, if it's illegal in PSe to accomplish the same effect, that the use of fade in PS violates the spirit, if not the letter, of the rule. |
I'd agree that it does. |
Isn't the fading ( In PhotoShop) a part of the Gaussian blur process (which is legal)?
By the way PSP 7 does not have fading ... |
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12/09/2003 09:33:53 PM · #14 |
For those Photoshop users like me, there is a simple quick method, from "Image" menu select "Mode" and finally "Grayscale", and that's it, just make the right adjustment to your image.
For me the challenge is convert them to sepia.... :( |
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12/09/2003 10:37:46 PM · #15 |
Originally posted by ramevi:
For those Photoshop users like me, there is a simple quick method, from "Image" menu select "Mode" and finally "Grayscale", and that's it, just make the right adjustment to your image.
For me the challenge is convert them to sepia.... :( |
Using the Channel Mixer does the same thing but gives you manual control of how the three color channels are mapped to gray.
For a sepia-tone look, either try the technique in the DPC tutorial or try Duotone mode with Black and a light brownish color as the second color. Play with the color curves until you get the result you want.
For example, for this image I used the following values:
Black: 0=0, 20=15, 100=100
Pantone 143: 0=0, 10=15.6, 100=81.3
Leave all the other boxes blank. I don't know if that looks like what you want, but maybe it's a starting point. Remember your photo has to be in Grayscale mode before you can make a duotone. When you're all done, you have to convert (a copy) back to RGB mode to save as the final JPEG. |
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12/10/2003 07:54:08 AM · #16 |
Originally posted by pitsaman:
Originally posted by Gordon:
Originally posted by nshapiro:
One could then argue, if it's illegal in PSe to accomplish the same effect, that the use of fade in PS violates the spirit, if not the letter, of the rule. |
I'd agree that it does. |
Isn't the fading ( In PhotoShop) a part of the Gaussian blur process (which is legal)?
By the way PSP 7 does not have fading ... |
No, the fading is achieved varying the alpha channel value (layer opacity), which is actually applied as a layer mask (which is certainly illegal) so it skirts the boundaries of legal usage - maybe technically okay, but not in the spirit of the thing. |
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12/10/2003 10:45:12 AM · #17 |
Originally posted by Gordon:
fading ... skirts the boundaries of legal usage - maybe technically okay, but not in the spirit of the thing. |
Speaking as myself and not as a member of the Site Council, I agree that using the "Fade..." function in Photoshop is not in the spirit of the standard challenge rules. |
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12/10/2003 11:20:00 AM · #18 |
Originally posted by EddyG:
Originally posted by Gordon:
fading ... skirts the boundaries of legal usage - maybe technically okay, but not in the spirit of the thing. |
Speaking as myself and not as a member of the Site Council, I agree that using the "Fade..." function in Photoshop is not in the spirit of the standard challenge rules. |
Me three ... sure is useful, though. |
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12/10/2003 11:22:50 AM · #19 |
Originally posted by GeneralE:
Originally posted by ramevi:
For those Photoshop users like me, there is a simple quick method, from "Image" menu select "Mode" and finally "Grayscale", and that's it, just make the right adjustment to your image.
For me the challenge is convert them to sepia.... :( |
Using the Channel Mixer does the same thing but gives you manual control of how the three color channels are mapped to gray.
For a sepia-tone look, either try the technique in the DPC tutorial or try Duotone mode with Black and a light brownish color as the second color. Play with the color curves until you get the result you want.
For example, for this image I used the following values:
Black: 0=0, 20=15, 100=100
Pantone 143: 0=0, 10=15.6, 100=81.3
Leave all the other boxes blank. I don't know if that looks like what you want, but maybe it's a starting point. Remember your photo has to be in Grayscale mode before you can make a duotone. When you're all done, you have to convert (a copy) back to RGB mode to save as the final JPEG. |
Tkank's, i'll experiment today. ;) |
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12/10/2003 07:42:54 PM · #20 |
| i think this is hilarious.. a SIMPLE quesstion with 18 responses.. (*COUGHDESATURATE) |
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12/10/2003 07:44:21 PM · #21 |
| well don't i feel the fool... there are BETTER ways to convert :) excellent, i'll be taking advantage of them ;) |
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12/10/2003 08:06:44 PM · #22 |
I click the B & W button in iPhoto.
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