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10/24/2008 11:42:49 AM · #301 |
Originally posted by dponlyme:
Originally posted by Prash:
Originally posted by Jac:
Originally posted by dponlyme:
That was the original point. Why is it so hard to simply recognize this as a fact? |
It is your opinion, not fact, that is why. |-} |
What facts are you talking about  dponlyme? You conveniently ignore every fact that is presented.. and base your statements with no logic but only prejudices.
You are the one who is not considering the facts when they are presented here for whatever reasons. When faced with fact that McCain couldnt even brighten his own life on values, you turned the subject and started talking about future. When faced with the fact that opportunities are grabbed and not 'waited' for, you chose to say something that doesnt make sense. It is upto an individual to grab an opportunity.. IMO it is not an admirable quality to complain that one didnt 'get' any opportunities to rise upto.
We need a president who takes other nations with him..earns respect..and doesnt just boss around. We dont need just a war chief. See how you alienated yourself? Nobody wants to discuss this now. Do you really think just being a maverick and stating ones opinion stubbornly helps in being a leader? Perhaps in army.. or in a business. Not in presidency.
It IS thus pointless to argue with you.
Good luck with your beliefs and your patronship for McCain. You have a right to believe so. I respect your opinions, but thats where it ends. |
It's not that I am ignoring facts. These things you are pointing out are simply irrelevant. Who really cares what John McCain did with opportunities he had 50 years ago. The fact is that he is one of two men who could be the next president of the United States. Looking at Obama, should I consider the fact that he has been an admitted drug user in his early life? I don't think so for the reason that he is not a drug user now and it has obviously not adversely effected his life. |
True history didnt adversely affect Obama's life.. but it did affect McCain's. He has grown into this man who thinks opportunities always mean more money for the rich who then will hire the middle class gentry and keep them at their disposal and 'may be' will think about creating opportunities for the employees once they are back from corporate retreats. And why would he think that? Because he is running for the President.. and will beat his chest yelling: "See.. I screwed up bad initially... but I am here now. So anyone can do it.. just be born rich!"
And that thought is distorted. There goes the adverse effect!
Message edited by author 2008-10-24 11:44:12. |
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10/24/2008 11:55:18 AM · #302 |
Originally posted by Prash:
Originally posted by dponlyme:
Originally posted by Prash:
Originally posted by Jac:
Originally posted by dponlyme:
That was the original point. Why is it so hard to simply recognize this as a fact? |
It is your opinion, not fact, that is why. |-} |
What facts are you talking about dponlyme? You conveniently ignore every fact that is presented.. and base your statements with no logic but only prejudices.
You are the one who is not considering the facts when they are presented here for whatever reasons. When faced with fact that McCain couldnt even brighten his own life on values, you turned the subject and started talking about future. When faced with the fact that opportunities are grabbed and not 'waited' for, you chose to say something that doesnt make sense. It is upto an individual to grab an opportunity.. IMO it is not an admirable quality to complain that one didnt 'get' any opportunities to rise upto.
We need a president who takes other nations with him..earns respect..and doesnt just boss around. We dont need just a war chief. See how you alienated yourself? Nobody wants to discuss this now. Do you really think just being a maverick and stating ones opinion stubbornly helps in being a leader? Perhaps in army.. or in a business. Not in presidency.
It IS thus pointless to argue with you.
Good luck with your beliefs and your patronship for McCain. You have a right to believe so. I respect your opinions, but thats where it ends. |
It's not that I am ignoring facts. These things you are pointing out are simply irrelevant. Who really cares what John McCain did with opportunities he had 50 years ago. The fact is that he is one of two men who could be the next president of the United States. Looking at Obama, should I consider the fact that he has been an admitted drug user in his early life? I don't think so for the reason that he is not a drug user now and it has obviously not adversely effected his life. |
True history didnt adversely affect Obama's life.. but it did affect McCain's. He has grown into this man who thinks opportunities always mean more money for the rich who then will hire the middle class gentry and keep them at their disposal and 'may be' will think about creating opportunities for the employees once they are back from corporate retreats. And why would he think that? Because he is running for the President.. and will beat his chest yelling: "See.. I screwed up bad initially... but I am here now. So anyone can do it.. just be born rich!"
And that thought is distorted. There goes the adverse effect! |
Actually McCain wasn't born rich and he, himself isn't rich either. His wife, Cindy, is the one with the money. He was born the son and grandson of two of the best Admirals in the US Navy. That's what allowed him to get away with things, both at the Naval Academy and later as a pilot that would have ended other's careers.
McCain, abandoned his crippled first wife, cheated on her with a rich girl that he followed about the country. They even applied for a marriage license while McCain was still married. So, he's essentially a "kept" man. |
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10/24/2008 12:30:07 PM · #303 |
Originally posted by NikonJeb:
Originally posted by Jac:
Palin certainly cares about what Obama did 45 years ago, are you saying she shouldn't and that the repubs are wrong in doing so with Obama's past? |
Originally posted by NikonJeb:
Ah, yes.......Palin.
The family values woman who has a 17 year old, unwed, pregnant daughter. |
Originally posted by dponlyme:
As far as Palin goes, I'm not a big fan but imo that was a cheap shot. |
It was absolutely a shot, but how do you figure a cheap shot?
Seems like pretty basic stuff for a parent these days.
My 13 year old is smarter than that.......she knows not to trust some hormonal boy to be responsible for HER body, and though she's certainmly not active, she's got enough sense to look out for herself.
She's smart enough to know that that's the SECOND biggest risk of unprotected sex.....the first is a death sentence from various STDs.
Those are the hard facts that she already knows.......what she knows from OUR family values is that she's a good kid, who we trust and have faith in, so consequently she doesn't have to validate herself by who she's dating and succumb to the peer pressure, or worse, the pressure from a boyfriend to do something she doesn't want to do.
So do I want anything to do with this woman who then tries to rationalze her situation by stating that the boy's going to marry her?
Oh sure.......THAT'S the answer!
No......I don't have much use for Sarah Palin for many reasons......believe it or not, the FIRST reason in my book is that she will set women's rights back a good century.
We have enough trouble with gender issues without her. |
I'm not a Palin fan but I'm not sure what family values has to do with a teenage girl or boy making a mistake has to do with proving they don't have family values. If you really want to believe that your little girl is going to listen to all the advice and knowledge that you and your wife bestow upon her than you will probably be disappointed at some point. Teenagers make irrational decisions all the time despite overwhelming information and values to guide them in the right direction. I'm sure there are plenty of parents, some who preach abstinence only and others who preach safe sex, that have felt their child would make the right choice only to find out that they made a choice contrary to the teachings that were instilled in them. I think the worst thing to say as a parent is "My child would never fill in the blank" b/c it can come back to haunt you. Just me two cents.
Message edited by author 2008-10-24 12:31:21. |
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10/24/2008 12:44:57 PM · #304 |
There are soooooooooooo many better reasons to not want Palin as VP (or as P).
Kids make mistakes no matter how great, or not great, their parents are. |
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10/24/2008 01:00:08 PM · #305 |
Originally posted by David Ey:
May you one day be so richly blessed. |
... blessed with what... a 17 year old...an unwed 17 year old... or a pregnant daughter... or all three.
Originally posted by RayEthier:
Choices, choices, choices.
Seriously David, you must be a Republican... I can just imagine what drivel you would spew if this was the child of a Democrat.
Ray |
I would like to clarify my earlier comment by stating categorically that I don't care what brand of politics the woman has, her supposedly stance on family values just seems pretty hollow considering her household.
How can you possibly reconcile the situation?
I'm not saying that it can't happen in the best of families, but considering how things can be twisted so easily, she's leaving herself wide open for justifiable criticism by opening her mouth on the subject. |
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10/24/2008 01:10:24 PM · #306 |
Originally posted by cynthiann:
There are soooooooooooo many better reasons to not want Palin as VP (or as P).
Kids make mistakes no matter how great, or not great, their parents are. |
Please dont take any offense, these are just my 2 cents:
True, but there are mistakes (like flunking a class or getting in a bad fight), and then there are big mistakes: the ones that are life changing (like getting pregnant prematurely). It is OK to make little mistakes.. they are good learning experiences. But if kids are making such big mistakes, and then one says 'kids always make mistakes no matter what', I am sorry that comes out as a bad excuse when there is something lacking in parenting.
I would rather agree to "Yes.. kids do make mistakes... but it is parent's responsibility (read the word responsibility) to make sure they find good moral examples to realise what is good and bad on their own." Whats important here is the part about them realising what is good/bad on their own. One cannot say one thing and do another... or force one's values unto them. Agreed it is difficult to set a moral ground as a parent until they reach an age where they have good discretionary abilities (which is around 18 yrs by research)... and kids do make mistakes... but such mistakes shouldnt cost them their life or career. In short, we need better parenting. It is very easy to shrug off a difficult situation with our teens and assume that things will be better next morning.. but it takes some courage to become a good example yourself and then let them see what makes more sense. |
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10/24/2008 01:16:07 PM · #307 |
Originally posted by trevytrev:
I'm not a Palin fan but I'm not sure what family values has to do with a teenage girl or boy making a mistake has to do with proving they don't have family values. If you really want to believe that your little girl is going to listen to all the advice and knowledge that you and your wife bestow upon her than you will probably be disappointed at some point. |
Oh, I know quite well my daughter WILL make mistakes.
What I have a problem with is the way that Palin is trying to whitewash the situation, especially by claiming that the effectively "Shotgun Marriage" aspect of the situation makes it okay.
Personally, I'd all but rather have my pregnant, unwed, 17 year old daughter stay at home and learn to cope as an unfortunate, but wiser person than marry a loser like this guy.
Originally posted by trevytrev:
Teenagers make irrational decisions all the time despite overwhelming information and values to guide them in the right direction. I'm sure there are plenty of parents, some who preach abstinence only and others who preach safe sex, that have felt their child would make the right choice only to find out that they made a choice contrary to the teachings that were instilled in them. I think the worst thing to say as a parent is "My child would never fill in the blank" b/c it can come back to haunt you. Just me two cents. |
That's not my point.......not that I am ever able to express myself well......8>)
It's the apperance, and the holier-than-thou attitude that the woman has with this hanging over her in her own home.
Too much of what she has to say on the issue is rationale, and really doesn't stand up because of this situation.
She made it a religious issue about right to life instead of acknowledging that there are problems in her home.
Mistakes were made, but there has really been no admission......instead, the rhetoric is that she's proud of her daughter making the choice to raise the baby.
Sorry, Sarah, but your kid messed up, and whether she has the baby or chooses to terminate is not the issue, she made a mistake.
BTW, Palin campaigned AGAINST sex education in her 2006 gubernatorial run. |
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10/24/2008 01:19:55 PM · #308 |
Originally posted by dponlyme:
Originally posted by NikonJeb:
Originally posted by dponlyme:
Who really cares what John McCain did with opportunities he had 50 years ago. |
Originally posted by Jac:
Palin certainly cares about what Obama did 45 years ago, are you saying she shouldn't and that the repubs are wrong in doing so with Obama's past? |
Ah, yes.......Palin.
The family values woman who has a 17 year old, unwed, pregnant daughter. |
I think 45 years ago Obama was sucking his pacifier.. not sure of his exact age.
As far as Palin goes, I'm not a big fan but imo that was a cheap shot. |
Did you think it was a cheap shot in 1998 at a fundraiser when John McCain said "Do you know why Chelsea Clinton is so ugly? Because Janet Reno is her father"? |
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10/24/2008 01:30:44 PM · #309 |
| On a lighter note... I received this email from my cousin saying I was in the news. I was completely baffled, but it really cracked me up. link. If you click on any of the side stories you can customize it to send to friends. |
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10/24/2008 01:42:24 PM · #310 |
Originally posted by bmartuch:
Originally posted by dponlyme:
Originally posted by NikonJeb:
Originally posted by dponlyme:
Who really cares what John McCain did with opportunities he had 50 years ago. |
Originally posted by Jac:
Palin certainly cares about what Obama did 45 years ago, are you saying she shouldn't and that the repubs are wrong in doing so with Obama's past? |
Ah, yes.......Palin.
The family values woman who has a 17 year old, unwed, pregnant daughter. |
I think 45 years ago Obama was sucking his pacifier.. not sure of his exact age.
As far as Palin goes, I'm not a big fan but imo that was a cheap shot. |
Did you think it was a cheap shot in 1998 at a fundraiser when John McCain said "Do you know why Chelsea Clinton is so ugly? Because Janet Reno is her father"? |
How about in 1992 when his wife commented to him, "You're getting a little thin up there." and McCain replied, "At least I don't plaster on the makeup like a trollop, you cunt."? That was to his wife, the real source of "his" wealth.
Message edited by author 2008-10-24 13:45:50. |
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10/24/2008 01:45:22 PM · #311 |
Originally posted by Spazmo99:
Originally posted by bmartuch:
Originally posted by dponlyme:
Originally posted by NikonJeb:
Originally posted by dponlyme:
Who really cares what John McCain did with opportunities he had 50 years ago. |
Originally posted by Jac:
Palin certainly cares about what Obama did 45 years ago, are you saying she shouldn't and that the repubs are wrong in doing so with Obama's past? |
Ah, yes.......Palin.
The family values woman who has a 17 year old, unwed, pregnant daughter. |
I think 45 years ago Obama was sucking his pacifier.. not sure of his exact age.
As far as Palin goes, I'm not a big fan but imo that was a cheap shot. |
Did you think it was a cheap shot in 1998 at a fundraiser when John McCain said "Do you know why Chelsea Clinton is so ugly? Because Janet Reno is her father"? |
How about when his wife commented to him, "You're getting a little thin up there." and McCain replied, "At least I don't plaster on the makeup like a trollop, you cunt."? That was to his wife, the real source of "his" wealth. |
Wow! Theres so much we can learn from him. I say he will be a great world leader and kids and adults will all respect him with their hearts.
What a super great guy!! :-) |
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10/24/2008 01:46:09 PM · #312 |
Originally posted by Prash:
True, but there are mistakes (like flunking a class or getting in a bad fight), and then there are big mistakes: the ones that are life changing (like getting pregnant prematurely). It is OK to make little mistakes.. they are good learning experiences. But if kids are making such big mistakes, and then one says 'kids always make mistakes no matter what', I am sorry that comes out as a bad excuse when there is something lacking in parenting. |
Yeah, I have some trouble with writing off the total lack of good influence with the "Kids will be kids" rationale.
I realize that you can't run their lives, goodness knows, but things of this magnitude are something that you can't just throw your hands up in the air, or try and brush off the responsibility.
Originally posted by Prash:
I would rather agree to "Yes.. kids do make mistakes... but it is parent's responsibility (read the word responsibility) to make sure they find good moral examples to realise what is good and bad on their own." Whats important here is the part about them realising what is good/bad on their own. One cannot say one thing and do another... or force one's values unto them. Agreed it is difficult to set a moral ground as a parent until they reach an age where they have good discretionary abilities (which is around 18 yrs by research)... and kids do make mistakes... but such mistakes shouldnt cost them their life or career. In short, we need better parenting. It is very easy to shrug off a difficult situation with our teens and assume that things will be better next morning.. but it takes some courage to become a good example yourself and then let them see what makes more sense. |
I just hope that I'm a good enough example for my daughter. |
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10/24/2008 01:47:32 PM · #313 |
Originally posted by Kelli:
On a lighter note... I received this email from my cousin saying I was in the news. I was completely baffled, but it really cracked me up. link. If you click on any of the side stories you can customize it to send to friends. |
LoL Thanks for the laugh. It's kind of scary b/c it's not that far from happening seeing what we've seen the past two elections. |
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10/24/2008 01:53:35 PM · #314 |
Originally posted by NikonJeb:
Mistakes were made, but there has really been no admission......instead, the rhetoric is that she's proud of her daughter making the choice to raise the baby. |
So you are saying it's a good idea for mom and grandma to publicly call this yet to be born kid a mistake. Put it on the cover of the new york times?
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10/24/2008 01:57:12 PM · #315 |
Originally posted by LoudDog:
Originally posted by NikonJeb:
Mistakes were made, but there has really been no admission......instead, the rhetoric is that she's proud of her daughter making the choice to raise the baby. |
So you are saying it's a good idea for mom and grandma to publicly call this yet to be born kid a mistake. Put it on the cover of the new york times? |
Not me ... I'm saying it's a good idea to stop spouting the hypocrisy that "teaching family values at home" is the only acceptable solution to preventing unintended pregnancies and the spread of STDs, and start adequately funding quality, age-appropriate, comprehensive sex/health education for those that want it. |
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10/24/2008 02:03:50 PM · #316 |
| You know, I read a post about SP on this forum and immediately go to google to see if it stands true. To my amazement every single bit of trash I read up on about this woman is true. I thought it was garbage being thrown out by the Dems but dang, they don't even need to dole it out, it's all there in plain sight to see. Google any story about her and you'll see it too. Don't you love google. |
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10/24/2008 02:07:48 PM · #317 |
Originally posted by Jac:
You know, I read a post about SP on this forum and immediately go to google to see if it stands true. To my amazement every single bit of trash I read up on about this woman is true. I thought it was garbage being thrown out by the Dems but dang, they don't even need to dole it out, it's all there in plain sight to see. Google any story about her and you'll see it too. Don't you love google. |
Ehehehhh.. I watched Michael Moore on Larry King Live last night. A viewer asked him if there are any plans to make a movie on SP. He scoffed.. then said something like 'her real life is a satire and doesnt need a movie to add to that..':-)
Message edited by author 2008-10-24 14:08:26. |
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10/24/2008 02:10:19 PM · #318 |
| For one of the bits on Saturday Night Live, all they did was read a transcript of her actual comments ... no joke-writing required. |
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10/24/2008 02:42:22 PM · #319 |
Here is an interactive map that lets one customize the predictions. It is with a source that I trust more than the corporate giant media houses.
Looking at the past, anything is possible so McCain may actually pull it off.. looking at the wides of conservative population (though I would HATE to wake up to see that day).
Have fun y'all;-)
ETA: the 11 pt lead in swing states.
Message edited by author 2008-10-24 14:51:23. |
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10/24/2008 02:48:36 PM · #320 |
| I just heard on the news that the highest paid member of McCain's campaign staff is not a strategist, advisor, fundraiser or speechwriter, but Palin's makeup artist. She was paid nearly $23,000 for two weeks of work. Yikes. With that kind of pay, her taxes will go up under Obama. :-O |
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10/24/2008 02:51:27 PM · #321 |
Originally posted by scalvert:
I just heard on the news that the highest paid member of McCain's campaign staff is not a strategist, advisor, fundraiser or speechwriter, but Palin's makeup artist. She was paid nearly $23,000 for two weeks of work. Yikes. With that kind of pay, her taxes will go up under Obama. :-O |
I guess it takes a lot of lipstick to make a pitbull pretty. |
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10/24/2008 02:56:31 PM · #322 |
Originally posted by Spazmo99:
I guess it takes a lot of lipstick to make a pitbull pretty. |
I wonder how much it costs to dress a moose? ;-) |
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10/24/2008 02:58:27 PM · #323 |
Originally posted by scalvert:
Originally posted by Spazmo99:
I guess it takes a lot of lipstick to make a pitbull pretty. |
I wonder how much it costs to dress a moose? ;-) |
$150K, give or take the airfare. |
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10/24/2008 03:06:02 PM · #324 |
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10/24/2008 03:10:17 PM · #325 |
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