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12/01/2003 01:54:30 PM · #1 |
I know this particular subject is probably not appealing to many more than myself, but I would love to have some feedback on the exposure and tonality of this photo....
John Setzler
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12/01/2003 02:08:23 PM · #2 |
It looks just about right to me ... there's still detail in the bright band across the top, and good shadow detail until you get completely underneath. This type of shot always makes me think "dark/gloomy/greasy" for some reason, so I might want to see how it looks with the highlights-midtones darkened a tiny bit, or toning it with a darkened second color (I work in Duotone mode), but I'm not at all convinced it would be an improvement; I guess I'm thinking of looking at something like bracketed prints ....
I took some steam train shots this summer -- it's hard to get a good exposure! Nice job as usual. |
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12/01/2003 02:11:03 PM · #3 |
Looks to be about right to my eye, any brighter and you'll start losing highlights, any darker and you'll start losing shadow and there's a full range of values in between.
BTW, I happen to like this type of subject matter and particularly your interpretations of it. Some of your B&W shots (like this one) remind me of the work of Lewis Hine, you should take a look at some of the images he created if you haven't already.
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12/01/2003 03:59:39 PM · #4 |
Are you fishing for compliments John - this looks great!
If I had to be pushed, I'd say that the black patches are just too 'black' and should reveal a touch of texture (or at least a hue of the midtones), since the eye will invariably detect some detail through ambient light.
As far as I can see the highlights are not pure white - and there are few of them, so these black areas are quite conspicuous and overpowering. The natural tones and texture in the other areas of the shot are varied and rich, so this would help to bond all the elements together.
Having said all that, this is a heavy-duty subject so some weight in the tones is appropriate.
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12/02/2003 08:09:33 AM · #5 |
Originally posted by Jon Lucas:
Are you fishing for compliments John - this looks great!
If I had to be pushed, I'd say that the black patches are just too 'black' and should reveal a touch of texture (or at least a hue of the midtones), since the eye will invariably detect some detail through ambient light.
As far as I can see the highlights are not pure white - and there are few of them, so these black areas are quite conspicuous and overpowering. The natural tones and texture in the other areas of the shot are varied and rich, so this would help to bond all the elements together.
Having said all that, this is a heavy-duty subject so some weight in the tones is appropriate. |
No... What I'm trying to determine is if the tonality here is 'varied and rich' as you described above. I look at a lot of black and white photography and I'm on a sort of mission to produce strong black and white work on my own. The tonal range present in most black and whites seems to be one of the aspects that makes me like or dislike certain images. As I continue to study this type of photo, I am asking myself if it is truly important to represent everything between pure white and pure black in an image. I suppose, like anything else, it depends on the subject.
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12/02/2003 08:43:27 AM · #6 |
I personally have such a hard time turning photos into B&W.
John, that is one of the things you do best!
This photo, as well as all your others have such a richness.
It really makes me feel the subject.
Great job...wouldn't change a thing.
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12/02/2003 08:52:06 AM · #7 |
I think I made the mistake for a while in post processing of starting from the assumption that everything has a black and a white point - and adjusting the levels to get the full dynamic range in every scene.
I've started looking a bit more carefully and soon you realise that this isn't actually often true at all.
There is also a lot that can be done in more selective channel mixing - applying different permutations of the red, green and blue channels in different areas of the image, combined using masks - sometimes generated from the original image itself.
One thing I've started doing that I find useful before I use the channel mixer to produce a B&W shot is to look at the channels individually and find the mix of tones that I want visually. (You can do this by making a duplicate document, and then splitting the channels in Photoshop - not sure how/if you do that in elements)
Also, I've been experimenting a lot more with more complex duotones and taking a more active role in defining the colour relationships and weights in the B&Ws. There is also quite a lot that can be done converting a duotone back to RGB and doing further colour adjustments to them. There is also a lot of power in further dodging and burning, with selective curves and mask sets.
These are more general comments than particularly directed at your train image, though. (and heavily influenced by the Photoshop Masterclass book by Caponigro). I think I mentioned to you that I prefer the middle
third of your shot, as a landscape composition - but I know you want to keep the wheels. The heavy black does ground the image.
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12/02/2003 08:52:25 AM · #8 |
Originally posted by jmsetzler:
........ As I continue to study this type of photo, I am asking myself if it is truly important to represent everything between pure white and pure black in an image. I suppose, like anything else, it depends on the subject. |
It probably depends on the subject, AND on who is viewing it.
I like the photo you posted, though the subject matter is not one of great interest to me. The shot has good tonal range that seems appropriate to the subject. For me personally, however; I am a huge fan of all black and white, but lean more towards b&w's that range from almost pure white, to almost pure black. They are the ones that I "feel". I like the extreme tonal range. |
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12/02/2003 03:55:04 PM · #9 |
I like this shot quite a bit and the tonality seems just about right to me too. I also have been working with black and white a lot more and I completely agree with Gordon in that many images do not require pure whites and pure blacks. It is very dependent on the individual image and what effect that you want it to convey to the viewers. I find myself remaining being a little more reserved then I used to where the tonality is concened. There was even a short period of time when I thought I liked using the Auto Levels because the emmediate and dramatic change to the photo was very striking but then I realized that it could often be over-dramatic and artificial. Now I manually control everything and I do not use any cookie-cutter approaches. For me, the power of black and white comes from the removal of an often distracting element, color. Removing the color allows you to better study the elements of lighting, form and detail. But creating images that are too contrasty and dramatic can be distracting as well and quite often the beauty in the details gets lost or is unappreciated. Some of the best black and whites that I have seen have a wide dynamic range and careful attention was given to accentuating the intricate details. I think John's photo achieves this, for the most part, and I would enjoy seeing it larger to better appreciate it.
T
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12/02/2003 04:59:40 PM · #10 |
i like the toning and the textures captured
but this particular viewpoint does very little for me on either an intellectual or emotional level. I barely have any idea as to what part of the train I'm looking at. Yet it's not one of those abstracts that sparks my interest.
However as a study in light and textures, it succeeds ..
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12/02/2003 05:04:21 PM · #11 |
| Is it the end of an axle ? |
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12/02/2003 06:45:07 PM · #12 |
i know you only asked about the exposure and tones (which i think look great). and i think it's a very strong photograph - but i always tend to like alternative looks at things, such as this. one thing that seems to stand out to me though, is that this photograph seems a little bit slanted. i'm not sure if anyone else has noticed, or how adversely it affects the photo - but after looking at it for a little while, it seems to slant downwards to the right. perhaps just another aspect of the photo gives it that illusion but, now that i've noticed it, it's hard to take my attention away from it.
p.s. i really like this railroad series you're doing - keep up the great work. |
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12/02/2003 07:02:02 PM · #13 |
This photo, subjectively, would not be of interest to very many. It's just part of what I like to photograph. I have a deep-rooted interest in railroad photography.
This is a drive wheel from THIS diesel locomotive.
I'm just trying to learn good post processing of black and white images and the feedback I have received here is much appreciated :)
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